Unpressed & slabbed w/ white page 8.0's vs. lesser PG 8.0 slabs;thoughts on FMV

[thecopperagekids]

As the title suggests. I'm interested in discussing the value of page quality, in relation to books in the same assigned grade.

 

Case in point would be an ASM 31 CGC SS 8.0 with white pages that I picked up in trade at a show this past month.The book was just signed and slabbed back in May.This particular copy hasn't been recorded in GPA yet.

 

It also has not been dry cleaned or pressed....which is a rarity in itself.All of us, for the most part,can look at a slabbed 8.0 and tell wether it has been pressed or not i.e. telltale signs like sediment on white areas and overhanging edges etc.

 

A cursory examination of Greg Reece's site , with his notation of "pressed" in his listings of CGC and Voldemort SA slabs......Reece's site is the only site that I know of that states wrther or not a book has been pressed.Hats off to Reece for going to that length.

 

The overwheling majority of his books are noted on his site as "Pressed".Not that one needs such a transparent reminder, but given the mindset of "buy book,dry clean/press then slab and sell" , which I suscribe to myself, has become the norm.The ratio of pressed books on his site in relation to unpressed book on his site tips exceedingly high towards the former.

You can bet that damn near any silver age book priced at a few hundred bucks or more that you come across in a CGC or Voldemort holder, that is an 8.0 or better, has been pressed.

 

That part of this topic addressed, I will move onto page quality now.

 

I looked up the sales of ASM #31 in GPA early this morning.

 

8 Universals were sold, one SS was sold.

 

I then looked up the cert #'s on those 9 slabs.Not a single one of those 9 books had a label designation of white pages.Most were "off white to white pages".The lone SS slab had "tan to cream pages".

 

I have been in this hobby for about 30 years.That said, I consider myself more than capable of understanding how one grades a book.In short, I am intimately familiar with all of the flaws that a 60 year old comic book may have.

 

I think that page quality is one of the most important attributes of any given SA book.Page quality...as in white pages.. is not only the most aesthetically pleasing to look at, but high vs lesser PQ delineates a book's very structural integrity down to the molecule.

 

I am not starting this thread to hawk my ASM 31 8.0 WP...alright, maybe I am a 'lil bit....

 

I am starting this thread chiefly to have a discussion on the inherently greater value of books with white page.

 

How much of a premium should be asdigned for a slabbed 8.0 with WP in relation to another copy of the same issue, slabbed 8.0 with lesser PQ.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[1Cool]

I use to give White Page books a 10% bump in price and I hit a price resistance. I then put a ST 115 with white pages up for auction and it sold for about what I'd expect for OW/W copy to sell for. I tried auctioning off a couple more White page Silver-Age books and found the same thing - people really don't seem to care about page quality in terms of how much they will pay. I'm finding there are a ton more collectors who are willing to pay for perfect centering compared to the few guys who demand white pages.

 

The Cream and Tan/Brittle books seem to be out of favor with a bunch of people but the number on the slabs overrides the page quality in my opinion.

[mysterio]

I will tend to go after white paged books a bit more than an OW-W, but I wouldn't pay a huge premium in your typical SA book. In pre-hero Marvels that is a different story, there I would expect white paged examples to have more of a premium over the typical C-OW or even OW-W.

 

As for the #31 in question, I would have bought your book if not for the signature. I tend to not be a huge fan of signed higher grade SA. I think getting a book like that signed tends to reduce your pool of potential buyers, as many on these boards have said, and I think that if your book was unsigned it would likely have sold by now. It is something to keep in mind for future trades.

[Mark 1]

I will tend to pay slightly more for white pages but it depends on the book. Like Avengers 1....finding a copy with white pages is near impossible so that would command a nice premium.

 

A run of the mill ASM 31...not so much.

 

I also commend Greg Reece for notating the pressed books. He is a very ethical seller and I have had good experiences buying from Greg.

 

 

[Sam I am]

 

I also commend Greg Reece for notating the pressed books. He is a very ethical seller and I have had good experiences buying from Greg.

 

 

Same here. Greg has sold me numerous books, and is very forthcoming with any info he has on a book you like.

[Beardown]

For what it's worth centering and cover color/quality is key for me. I've actually wondered how a off center cover could ever receive a 9.8 grade as it's just not "mint or near mint" to me at all.

 

I am not a fan of writing of any sort on the front cover, autographs included, as it just takes away from the art of the cover.

 

Now if the book is a reader copy non of this really matters.

 

But to slab it and have to enjoy as art for the front cover, which it essentially is, the cover is where it's at for me.

 

As for page color, OW/W is fine with me and in some cases cream to off white wouldn't bother me either as long as it presents well in the slab.

 

Great topic and love reading everyone's opinions.

[Spiderphill]

PQ doesn't matter to me. All about the eye appeal

[passion4comics]

Centering comes first. If the book requires you to tilt your head I don't want it. PQ white or as close as I can get. Creams are a deal breaker.

 

I would pay 20-30% more for a well centered white page book. I think I set the GPA record recently for an X-Men 101, but GPA doesn't show it. I would take a great presenting white PQ 9.6 over an ow/w off center 9.8.

 

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

I will tend to go after white paged books a bit more than an OW-W, but I wouldn't pay a huge premium in your typical SA book. In pre-hero Marvels that is a different story, there I would expect white paged examples to have more of a premium over the typical C-OW or even OW-W.

 

As for the #31 in question, I would have bought your book if not for the signature. I tend to not be a huge fan of signed higher grade SA. I think getting a book like that signed tends to reduce your pool of potential buyers, as many on these boards have said, and I think that if your book was unsigned it would likely have sold by now. It is something to keep in mind for future trades.

 

I got hammered on my Thor #165 9.4. Absolutely hammered. Signed by Stan, final bid $1375. Last blue sold for $1760.

 

So...there's that.

[RockMyAmadeus]

For what it's worth centering and cover color/quality is key for me. I've actually wondered how a off center cover could ever receive a 9.8 grade as it's just not "mint or near mint" to me at all.

 

Books are graded on their level of preservation, not their production (mostly.)

[RockMyAmadeus]

It also has not been dry cleaned or pressed....

 

How do you know the book wasn't pressed?

 

No one can know that anymore.

 

One should assume that every key or semi-key book in a slab has been pressed, unless the book came from an original owner, or close to it.

 

I know which of my OO books aren't pressed...but no one else would.

[thecopperagekids]

It also has not been dry cleaned or pressed....

 

How do you know the book wasn't pressed?

 

No one can know that anymore.

 

One should assume that every key or semi-key book in a slab has been pressed, unless the book came from an original owner, or close to it.

 

I know which of my OO books aren't pressed...but no one else would.

 

Sure you can.

 

If you look at a book and it has any appreciable degree of sediment on the cover and defects that naturally are not present on a book that has been pressed.....the book has not been pressed.

[Jaydogrules]

Take the "PQ" on a label with a grain of salt. Eye appeal and structural grade matter most to the vast, vast majority of collectors.

 

-J.

[oakman29]

For what it's worth centering and cover color/quality is key for me. I've actually wondered how a off center cover could ever receive a 9.8 grade as it's just not "mint or near mint" to me at all.

 

I am not a fan of writing of any sort on the front cover, autographs included, as it just takes away from the art of the cover.

 

Now if the book is a reader copy non of this really matters.

 

But to slab it and have to enjoy as art for the front cover, which it essentially is, the cover is where it's at for me.

 

As for page color, OW/W is fine with me and in some cases cream to off white wouldn't bother me either as long as it presents well in the slab.

 

Great topic and love reading everyone's opinions.

 

I agree on all points. The way a book presents is much more important to me than PQ.

[RockMyAmadeus]

It also has not been dry cleaned or pressed....

 

How do you know the book wasn't pressed?

 

No one can know that anymore.

 

One should assume that every key or semi-key book in a slab has been pressed, unless the book came from an original owner, or close to it.

 

I know which of my OO books aren't pressed...but no one else would.

 

Sure you can.

 

If you look at a book and it has any appreciable degree of sediment on the cover and defects that naturally are not present on a book that has been pressed.....the book has not been pressed.

 

What does "sediment" mean, as you are using it?

 

But, no, you cannot know if a book hasn't been pressed. You can usually tell if a book HAS been pressed...but you cannot tell if a book has NOT been pressed, because...and this is, again, the key...proper pressing is usually undetectable.

 

You're suggesting you can tell a book hasn't been pressed by looking for what isn't there...and that's not possible, obviously.

[Ti]

Okay, I finally made it into this site!

Let's make a deal.

[makeminemego]

I think PQ is right more than it is wrong.

 

It's not a deal breaker so to speak, but if all else is equal, I'll take an OWW over a COW any day. I'd pay a slight premium in some cases for WH.

 

I do think CGC's PQ ratings have become more consistent over the past couple of years, but that's just my experience. Voldemort does a real nice job and seem to be consistent, but their PQ grading is kind of 1/2grade higher than CGC's.I got several WP back on a submission recently, but on books that I had documented as being OWW. Seems like they throw the WP designation around more than CGC ever has.

[1Cool]

It also has not been dry cleaned or pressed....

 

How do you know the book wasn't pressed?

 

No one can know that anymore.

 

One should assume that every key or semi-key book in a slab has been pressed, unless the book came from an original owner, or close to it.

 

I know which of my OO books aren't pressed...but no one else would.

 

Sure you can.

 

If you look at a book and it has any appreciable degree of sediment on the cover and defects that naturally are not present on a book that has been pressed.....the book has not been pressed.

 

What does "sediment" mean, as you are using it?

 

But, no, you cannot know if a book hasn't been pressed. You can usually tell if a book HAS been pressed...but you cannot tell if a book has NOT been pressed, because...and this is, again, the key...proper pressing is usually undetectable.

 

You're suggesting you can tell a book hasn't been pressed by looking for what isn't there...and that's not possible, obviously.

 

I'm thinking he is saying a book that has any defects that would press out must be considered unpressed. But then a perfect book would be considered pressed even if it was just stored extremely well. Or a poorly pressed book would be considered not pressed since it failed to get rid of all defects.

[RockMyAmadeus]

It also has not been dry cleaned or pressed....

 

How do you know the book wasn't pressed?

 

No one can know that anymore.

 

One should assume that every key or semi-key book in a slab has been pressed, unless the book came from an original owner, or close to it.

 

I know which of my OO books aren't pressed...but no one else would.

 

Sure you can.

 

If you look at a book and it has any appreciable degree of sediment on the cover and defects that naturally are not present on a book that has been pressed.....the book has not been pressed.

 

What does "sediment" mean, as you are using it?

 

But, no, you cannot know if a book hasn't been pressed. You can usually tell if a book HAS been pressed...but you cannot tell if a book has NOT been pressed, because...and this is, again, the key...proper pressing is usually undetectable.

 

You're suggesting you can tell a book hasn't been pressed by looking for what isn't there...and that's not possible, obviously.

 

I'm thinking he is saying a book that has any defects that would press out must be considered unpressed. But then a perfect book would be considered pressed even if it was just stored extremely well. Or a poorly pressed book would be considered not pressed since it failed to get rid of all defects.

 

That is correct.

[Straw-Man]

i am generally not a page snob, but for silver, o/w is my floor.