POLL: Which is worth more, the Mile High Action #1 or the Action #1 Cover OA?

[Bronty]

Its not pop art, its illustration.

 

I knew that. I actually meant to say pop culture.

 

[VintageComics]

With OA, the current public precedent is 600k... you'd be asking the hobby players to go from 600k to 6m or 7m overnight.

 

I'm assuming that Frazetta covers which are selling for well over $600K or the $1.3 MIL Euro Tin Tin cover (that sold in 2012) don't count?

 

 

[Bronty]

With OA, the current public precedent is 600k... you'd be asking the hobby players to go from 600k to 6m or 7m overnight.

 

I'm assuming that Frazetta covers which are selling for well over $600K or the $1.3 MIL Euro Tin Tin cover (that sold in 2012) don't count?

 

 

Correct, since we are talking north american comic books, and north american comic book OA. The fraz book cover OA is really fantasy art, not comic art. Note that his comic work has never gone north of 400k. I get what you are saying (and, btw, the tintin record is well over 3m for endpapers) but again - tintin endpapers went for 3m+ because there was precedent at the 1m (and 2m) level. It didn't go from 300k to 3m overnight, and that's what you're asking north american comic OA to do.

 

Possible perhaps, but I think you have to characterize it as unlikely. Markets just don't move that way. When is the last time an action 1 sold for more than 10x the previous record? Just doesn't happen. What does happen is a ratcheting effect - the previous sale becomes the floor for the next sale and you wind up your way up up up over time in small but rapid steps. Small or least manageable steps in rapid succession are reality.... a single giant Bob-Beamon-like leap (10-12x previous record...) is generally fantasy.

[VintageComics]

With OA, the current public precedent is 600k... you'd be asking the hobby players to go from 600k to 6m or 7m overnight.

 

I'm assuming that Frazetta covers which are selling for well over $600K or the $1.3 MIL Euro Tin Tin cover (that sold in 2012) don't count?

 

 

Correct, since we are talking north american comic books, and north american comic book OA. The fraz book cover OA is really fantasy art, not comic art. Note that his comic work has never gone north of 400k. I get what you are saying (and, btw, the tintin record is well over 3m for endpapers) but again - tintin endpapers went for 3m+ because there was precedent at the 1m (and 2m) level. It didn't go from 300k to 3m overnight, and that's what you're asking north american comic OA to do.

 

Possible perhaps, but I think you have to characterize it as unlikely. Markets just don't move that way. When is the last time an action 1 sold for more than 10x the previous record? Just doesn't happen.

 

I get what you're saying.

 

I think the only reason Frazetta 'comic' art hasn't gone for more is because it hasn't changed hands.

 

That Weird Science Fantasy #29 piece broke a record at $380K, correct? And that was over 5 years ago in 2010. Just a year earlier, the world's most expensive comic book sold at auction, an Action #1 CGC 6.0 sold for $317K.

 

So, while I understand your point about people feeling comfortable spending record numbers, I don't think the market has operated in a vacuum. Since then, you have the Tin Tin pieces, you have dealers doing deals off the record. I heard rumors that Bechara paid $1MIL for the Captain America #100 cover - Now I don't believe he paid that number - but I do know that a Ditko early ASM cover would easily bring a strong number, maybe even close to that.

 

So yes, if you want to talk about it in terms of 'American' comic books, there isn't a lot of public information. But in the greater scheme, I think a piece as iconic as the cover to Action #1 - which has for a long time now gone from being just a comic book to becoming a historic artifact IMO - would transcend 'American' comics.

 

Of course, that's just speculation on my part.

[Bronty]

Its so nice speaking to someone on the other side of this debate that is reasonable

[VintageComics]

Its so nice speaking to someone on the other side of this debate that is reasonable

 

We're Canadian.

 

That and I don't have a vested interest.

[Bronty]

I heard rumors that Bechara paid $1MIL for the Captain America #100 cover - Now I don't believe he paid that number

 

Neither do I I'd tattoo bechara on my buttcheeks if that was true

 

Well, ok maybe not, but yeah... BS IMO

[MrBedrock]

There is a valid comparable. The Mile High Action 15 would probably sell in the $250,000 range. I was offered $450,000 for the cover art... and turned it down.

[Bronty]

There is a valid comparable. The Mile High Action 15 would probably sell in the $250,000 range. I was offered $450,000 for the cover art... and turned it down.

 

Good for you.

 

That tells me you are happy with your purchase.

 

I think its important to note though that while 450k is a huge price/value, its within what the market currently bears. Asking the market to go 10x above the current record is a different set of dynamics that IMO would yield a different answer.

 

(Unless you are telling me that you would, or know someone who would, write a 10m check for the OA, cash money. Its a big ask. I know you've got bucks, but........ its a lotta dough with little direct precedent.

[Silver Surfer]

There is a valid comparable. The Mile High Action 15 would probably sell in the $250,000 range. I was offered $450,000 for the cover art... and turned it down.

 

It will only go up in value as I think OA is just starting to take off. I noticed over the last year that Heritage has a lot more OA listings in their weekly auctions. I would try to trade it for some of Veryzl's Church Timely's!

[Aman619]

I think the art would beat the comic. Surprisingly because I don't collect art. But one huge caveat; the art must be in very very great shape, not browned, or glue stained. It must look more like an illustration and less like production art like so many covers we have seen. If so, being the iconic cover that started the modern comic book industry would be huuuuuge.

 

The best copy of the best comic is also huge, but the buyer can buy a 9.0 or better copy if he chooses, he has -- to date, -- three chances to do so, assuming, as I do, that the MH copy is at worst a 9.2

 

[delekkerste]

The best copy of the best comic is also huge, but the buyer can buy a 9.0 or better copy if he chooses, he has -- to date, -- three chances to do so, assuming, as I do, that the MH copy is at worst a 9.2

 

Second place is the first loser. If you want the best of the best, there is only one.

[Bronty]

you've done it again, tovarisch!

[comicdonna]

I would take the cover art, sell it, and buy the MH Action 1 and the Allentown Tec 27

[delekkerste]

That Weird Science Fantasy #29 piece broke a record at $380K, correct? And that was over 5 years ago in 2010. Just a year earlier, the world's most expensive comic book sold at auction, an Action #1 CGC 6.0 sold for $317K.

 

Not the same thing. WSF #29 is regarded by some as the greatest comic book cover of all time. Action #1 6.0 isn't close to being the best comic book.

 

What's WSF #29 worth now? $750K? $1 million? $1.25 million? So the Action #1 cover art is going to be worth 4x that at a minimum, if not 6 or 8x, for it to be more expensive than the Mile High copy? How many complete Ditko ASM issues you can buy with that amount? Probably 3 of the good ones. Is it worth more than the covers of DKR #1, ASM #50, Silver Surfer #4, FF #72, and maybe another half dozen more comparably iconic covers...combined? I doubt it.

 

As Bronty said in the OA Forum, in comics, there is one copy of one book that stands at the top of the comic book pyramid. But, in OA, there is no consensus on the best or most desirable piece - it's kind of like comparing Rembrandt to Van Gogh to Picasso to Warhol when you compare an important GA piece to a great SA Kirby piece or twice-up Spidey cover to a Byrne X-Men cover to a Miller DKR cover to the best McSpidey cover. Different strokes for different folks. The cover art to Action #1 might be regarded as the most important piece, but I doubt it would be many collectors' favorite or that many OA connoisseurs rank Joe Shuster anywhere near the top of the list of great comic artists.

 

In any case, the cover OA is, in 99.99% of cases, worth more than the corresponding comic book in its highest condition. It's only with a tiny handful of truly rare and important books like Action #1 (and a few other specific instances) where this is even a debate, and are the exceptions which prove the rule.

[ciorac]

That Weird Science Fantasy #29 piece broke a record at $380K, correct? And that was over 5 years ago in 2010. Just a year earlier, the world's most expensive comic book sold at auction, an Action #1 CGC 6.0 sold for $317K.

 

Not the same thing. WSF #29 is regarded by some as the greatest comic book cover of all time. Action #1 6.0 isn't close to being the best comic book.

 

What's WSF #29 worth now? $750K? $1 million? $1.25 million? So the Action #1 cover art is going to be worth 4x that at a minimum, if not 6 or 8x, for it to be more expensive than the Mile High copy? How many complete Ditko ASM issues you can buy with that amount? Probably 3 of the good ones. Is it worth more than the covers of DKR #1, ASM #50, Silver Surfer #4, FF #72, and maybe another half dozen more comparably iconic covers...combined? I doubt it.

 

As Bronty said in the OA Forum, in comics, there is one copy of one book that stands at the top of the comic book pyramid. But, in OA, there is no consensus on the best or most desirable piece - it's kind of like comparing Rembrandt to Van Gogh to Picasso to Warhol when you compare an important GA piece to a great SA Kirby piece or twice-up Spidey cover to a Byrne X-Men cover to a Miller DKR cover to the best McSpidey cover. Different strokes for different folks. The cover art to Action #1 might be regarded as the most important piece, but I doubt it would be many collectors' favorite or that many OA connoisseurs rank Joe Shuster anywhere near the top of the list of great comic artists.

 

In any case, the cover OA is, in 99.99% of cases, worth more than the corresponding comic book in its highest condition. It's only with a tiny handful of truly rare and important books like Action #1 (and a few other specific instances) where this is even a debate, and are the exceptions which prove the rule.

 

Not many, could credibly say, that Shuster or Bob Kane were amongst the truly great comic book illustrators of our time.

 

But most would indeed say that they have produced two of the three most important comic book covers of all time. Action 1, and Detective 27. And the third of course being Jack Kirby's Amazing Fantasy #15 cover.

 

You can trot out all the John Byrne, John Romita, and Frank Miller covers you want, they aren't even in the same league as those three in terms of importance, relevance to popular culture worldwide, or potential monetary value.

 

Any of those three covers, in my opinion, would clobber the MH Action 1

[tth2]

I'm curious as to why you're asking?

 

The art is the obvious answer.

 

So obvious that the votes are split down the middle so far.

OA seems to be pulling away.

[tth2]

We need a crack or don't care option.

 

 

I don't care about Action #1 in any form (comic or OA) personally. I just thought it was an interesting topic of conversation, one that we've been having over in the OA Forum with similarly mixed results.

 

That said, in a discussion like this, I think a lot of people probably are unduly influenced by the headlines for the incredible sums paid for fine art and either consciously or unconsciously translate that over to comic art - even though there has been scant evidence of such. To date, the top comic book sales swamp the top comic art sales (talking about American comic books and comic art) by a wide margin.

Although Park's Law says that no celebrity or outsider will ever spend big money on comics or comic-related art, I think the Action 1 cover OA would at a minimum attract the likes of Lucas and Spielberg who are into Americana.

[tth2]

Anything's possible when you are talking a cover that doesn't exist vs a comic that isn't on the block, but the trouble with the action 1 cover beating the comic is that you'd be asking the art to step sooooo far outside of precedent.

 

With comics, the 3m level is precedent, so making it to 6m or 7m for the comic shouldn't be a stretch at all.

 

With OA, the current public precedent is 600k... you'd be asking the hobby players to go from 600k to 6m or 7m overnight.

 

Its just too big a leap right now.

 

If it went for that kind of money I think it would go to someone used to dropping big coin on the printed comics, rather than on OA. Similar to when richard evans bought that action 15 cover.

Your comparison is apples and oranges.

 

The $3M comic sale you're citing is for the top book in the hobby. In contrast, the $600K OA sales you're citing (ASM 328 cover and IH 180 panel page) are for art that's not even close to the top existing OA in the hobby, and would not be even in the top 100 if all OA existed (in the case of ASM 328, top 1000).

 

There are no real benchmarks in the OA yet. If and when we see public sales of the likes of AF 15, FF 1, Detective 27, Captain America 1, IH 181, GSX 1, etc., then we might start to see some legitimate benchmarks.

 

O

[Bronty]

I agree. There are no benchmarks yet. That's the problem at this point in time that would preclude a 7m sale