POLL: Which is worth more, the Mile High Action #1 or the Action #1 Cover OA?

[delekkerste]

But I would think there really would not be any piece of comic art that would display as dramatically as an Action 1 cover. I've seen most of the high end examples cited it this thread. Some of them are insanely cool. It is hard to imagine a better crafted cover than the WSF 29. But the idea of staring at the original cover art for Action 1...I would probably start crying. There really isn't another piece of comic art that, if displayed, would have that kind of impact, regardless of artistic merit.

 

Leaving out the question of valuation, I have no doubt that this would be the case for you and Bill and others, that staring at the original cover art for Action #1 would be practically a religious experience. That said, I know a lot of original art collectors and what really makes them tick. Nostalgia. Composition. Linework. Their passion for a particular artist, style, period, character. It's a lot different in the comic book world - while there is certainly appreciation for nostalgia, artwork, etc., if you grew up in, say, the mid-1980s, it's not exactly much of a challenge to acquire anything from that period, so you inevitably branch out into earlier and more expensive books, or to other venues like original art, where something from the 1980s can and does often sell for many times what something from the 1950s sells for.

 

Because everything in art is one of a kind, though, the hobby has evolved to become a much purer barometer and expression of nostalgia and what makes a collector tick. If your passion in art from the 1980s, you don't have to go back to collecting art from the 1940s or 1950s to make it interesting - getting great pieces from the 1980s is challenging and expensive enough for anyone in the hobby. Of course, that's not the case at all in comic books, where the older material is harder to come by and appreciation of rarity, condition (obviously highly correlated to age), etc. often leads one to pursue that material instead of where the heart truly lies.

 

All that is to say that, knowing many dozens of people in the OA hobby, and keeping in mind that what one collects in OA is very indicative of where their true passions lie since it's all one of a kind, there are very, very, very few people who's true passion is GA superhero art. Sorry, but it really is the red-headed stepchild of the hobby. Of course Action #1 being Action #1 would be a huge exception. But, for most OA collectors I know, it would just be more like viewing an interesting museum exhibit whereas seeing the best of the best art in their collecting wheelhouse would very likely have an even greater emotional impact on them.

 

Like for me - of course I would be impressed to see the Action #1 cover art. And I would understand why it would be worth more than any other known piece in the hobby (that much has never been in question). But, would it get my heart racing as much as if I held, say, the Daredevil #181 or Conan #24 or WSF #29 covers in my hands? Best of the best covers from the comics and creators that I love the most? No - I'd view it like a historical artifact at the Met or the British Museum. It would be awesome, but it wouldn't be a religious experience for me.

 

As I said, I know a ton of OA collectors. I know Kirby guys. Spidey guys. '60s splash guys. McFarlane guys. '80s guys. And some that are a combination of multiple categories. GA superhero guys, though? Not many are out there. True story - when that Action #15 cover went up for auction at Heritage and someone asked me about it, I said, "That cover will be won by a Golden Age comic collector cross-over guy. Probably Halperin or maybe someone like a Richard Evans. I don't think Fishler pays up for this kind of stuff anymore." Yep, that's how small a pool it is - I barely even know you and you had barely made a ripple in the hobby up to that point and I identified you as one of the two likeliest buyers for the cover. I'd like to say that it was purely because my analytical skills are Holmes-esque, but, frankly, the pool of serious players who are prone to paroxysms of religious ecstasy in the presence of GA superhero art you can count on one hand.

 

Of course every collector on the planet will pay copious lip service to the Action #1 cover if it existed. I don't know too many collectors in the OA hobby who would think this was their favorite piece of art, though. The history and importance is undeniable, but most art collectors weigh so many other factors as well, and I doubt this would top many peoples' lists in the hobby. It's just very different from comic books where you can like what you like, but Action #1 is still king.

[delekkerste]

I would never consider myself an art collector. I have some art and there are definitely some others that I would love to have, but for the most part original comic art leaves me cold. I have always looked at comic art from a display standpoint. If it displays well and makes an impression on me then I can see the value in it. If it is simply a black and white representation of something printed in full color I am not really moved. But I would think there really would not be any piece of comic art that would display as dramatically as an Action 1 cover. I've seen most of the high end examples cited it this thread. Some of them are insanely cool. It is hard to imagine a better crafted cover than the WSF 29. But the idea of staring at the original cover art for Action 1...I would probably start crying. There really isn't another piece of comic art that, if displayed, would have that kind of impact, regardless of artistic merit. In any potential gallery display of comic art I would think that piece would undoubtedly be the focal point and would stir the most conversation. You and I would walk that gallery and comment of the Millers, the Fines, the Eisners, the Kurtzmans. We would discuss the linework on the Kirbys, the Woods, the Bakers. But when we came to the Action 1 cover we wouldn't say a thing, we would just stare at it in wonder. For that very simple reasons I would place more value on it than any other piece of comic art.

 

Precisely.

 

I wept just reading this

 

There's no crying in comic art.

[Peter G]

I love GA art. The red headed step child ? I love red heads

 

Just wish more primo GA pieces would surface.

 

All Select covers - Schomburg- cover

 

Detective 27 or 29 or 31 cover - Kane -

 

Submariner cover - Everett -

 

Captain America cover - Kirby/Simon

 

Marvel Comics and other early Timelys

 

So many great cover that I just wished existed

 

 

[ciorac]

But I would think there really would not be any piece of comic art that would display as dramatically as an Action 1 cover. I've seen most of the high end examples cited it this thread. Some of them are insanely cool. It is hard to imagine a better crafted cover than the WSF 29. But the idea of staring at the original cover art for Action 1...I would probably start crying. There really isn't another piece of comic art that, if displayed, would have that kind of impact, regardless of artistic merit.

 

Leaving out the question of valuation, I have no doubt that this would be the case for you and Bill and others, that staring at the original cover art for Action #1 would be practically a religious experience.

.

 

Kismet. We have reached thermodynamic equilibrium on this topic

[ciorac]

I would never consider myself an art collector. I have some art and there are definitely some others that I would love to have, but for the most part original comic art leaves me cold. I have always looked at comic art from a display standpoint. If it displays well and makes an impression on me then I can see the value in it. If it is simply a black and white representation of something printed in full color I am not really moved. But I would think there really would not be any piece of comic art that would display as dramatically as an Action 1 cover. I've seen most of the high end examples cited it this thread. Some of them are insanely cool. It is hard to imagine a better crafted cover than the WSF 29. But the idea of staring at the original cover art for Action 1...I would probably start crying. There really isn't another piece of comic art that, if displayed, would have that kind of impact, regardless of artistic merit. In any potential gallery display of comic art I would think that piece would undoubtedly be the focal point and would stir the most conversation. You and I would walk that gallery and comment of the Millers, the Fines, the Eisners, the Kurtzmans. We would discuss the linework on the Kirbys, the Woods, the Bakers. But when we came to the Action 1 cover we wouldn't say a thing, we would just stare at it in wonder. For that very simple reasons I would place more value on it than any other piece of comic art.

 

Precisely.

 

I wept just reading this

 

There's no crying in comic art.

 

I'll bet you shed a tear or two when landing one of those 80s grails that bring you back to your youth

[Moondog]

It was as close to a religious experience as I've ever had when I saw the Death Dealer at the Chicago Con a few years ago.

[ciorac]

I love GA art. The red headed step child ? I love red heads

 

Just wish more primo GA pieces would surface.

 

All Select covers - Schomburg- cover

 

Detective 27 or 29 or 31 cover - Kane -

 

Submariner cover - Everett -

 

Captain America cover - Kirby/Simon

 

Marvel Comics and other early Timelys

 

So many great cover that I just wished existed

 

 

good point. if there were more quality pieces coming to auction, there would be a lot more action. I know of some killer covers and interior pages out there, but they've been locked away for a very long time

[jimjum12]

It was as close to a religious experience as I've ever had when I saw the Death Dealer at the Chicago Con a few years ago.

 

 

.....now you're talking GOD BLESS.....

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

[ciorac]

It was as close to a religious experience as I've ever had when I saw the Death Dealer at the Chicago Con a few years ago.

 

That was really something. I lingered there about 15 minutes taking it all in

[Peter G]

I love GA art. The red headed step child ? I love red heads

 

Just wish more primo GA pieces would surface.

 

All Select covers - Schomburg- cover

 

Detective 27 or 29 or 31 cover - Kane -

 

Submariner cover - Everett -

 

Captain America cover - Kirby/Simon

 

Marvel Comics and other early Timelys

 

So many great cover that I just wished existed

 

 

good point. if there were more quality pieces coming to auction, there would be a lot more action. I know of some killer covers and interior pages out there, but they've been locked away for a very long time

 

Tease !

[tth2]

I'm going to go on and say it outloud, the cover to Action Comics 1 is lousy.

Jimbo Jimbo Jimbo, you just done lost me.

 

I love the cover of Action 1.

 

From a purely technical point of view, it`s got great composition. An art teacher could totally use it in a class.

 

From an artistic point of view, it`s a wonderful, dynamic image that conveys exactly what the artist intended to convey. Perhaps Joe Shuster was not the most skilled artist in the world, but he was functional and I find his spartan artistic style to be aesthetically pleasing. Much more so than the unskilled and artistically inept Bob Kane.

 

And from a cultural/historical significance point of view, it`s the undisputed king of American comic-dom. Even the hardcore Batman fans aren`t coming in and saying that the covers of Detective 27 or Batman 1 would go for more.

[tth2]

On the one hand, I'm an art guy and, like yourself, instinctively and intellectually, my inclination is to say that the art should be worth more. On the other hand, the cover art alone is just a slice of Superman's first appearance whereas the book has his full appearance in the size, shape, colors, and smell that all of us remember, and is regarded as the singular peak of the pyramid in a much larger hobby.

So by that token, why aren`t you arguing that the best known copy of AF 15 should be more valuable than the cover of AF 15?

 

For that matter, are you saying that the interior art of AF 15 would go for more than the cover?

[tth2]

ASM #328 is an outlier, but most of the cognoscenti know of a number of mid-6-figure private sales of iconic covers, even one or two high 6-figure sales (one of which nobody believes, though), where several complete Ditko ASM stories were offered, where the biggest BSDs value the Hulk #181 cover, etc. So, we do have some loose benchmarks of value at higher levels than just the public comps.

Seems you`re trying to have your cake and eat it too. On the one hand, you`re saying that because there are only limited benchmarks, the value of the Action 1 is limited and the speculated prices are specious because of said limited benchmarks.

 

But on the other hand, you`re comfortable accepting valuations of low 7-figures for the likes of Hulk 181 and GSX 1, despite the same limited benchmarks.

 

Why is Action 1 restricted by known benchmarks but Hulk 181/GSX 1 not? Isn`t it really because you`ve actually heard collectors, who I assume you believe have the ability to spend that kind of coin, say that they would spend $X million for the Hulk 181 or GSX 1 cover, but have not heard anyone with the same kind of credibility saying anything about Action 1?

[N e r V]

I'm not sure the perceived quality of art on Action Comics #1 would hurt it's value.

 

It is an iconic cover regardless of how someone might feel about its artistic merits.

 

 

In the "fine art" field there are probably hundreds of paintings I'd rather own and hang on my wall than the Mona Lisa but I'd never dispute its fame or iconic status or value. It's own history on just being "another face in the crowd" to arriving as a world famous cultural icon in the last century is interesting and surprising on how events and time shape things.

 

 

I really wish something like the Amazing Fantasy #15 story original art had hit the open market instead of a museum if only to see what kind of limits the market could see.

 

I know of at least one Spideman collector that would have paid a lot more than that 3 million that the last Action #1 sold for to have a crack at that set of artwork.

[jimjum12]

I'm going to go on and say it outloud, the cover to Action Comics 1 is lousy.

Jimbo Jimbo Jimbo, you just done lost me.

 

I love the cover of Action 1.

 

From a purely technical point of view, it`s got great composition. An art teacher could totally use it in a class.

 

From an artistic point of view, it`s a wonderful, dynamic image that conveys exactly what the artist intended to convey. Perhaps Joe Shuster was not the most skilled artist in the world, but he was functional and I find his spartan artistic style to be aesthetically pleasing. Much more so than the unskilled and artistically inept Bob Kane.

 

And from a cultural/historical significance point of view, it`s the undisputed king of American comic-dom. Even the hardcore Batman fans aren`t coming in and saying that the covers of Detective 27 or Batman 1 would go for more.

 

.....I'm actually quite fond of Shuster.....about a year later. The Action 1 cover just doesn't grab me, although it does make a great Postage stamp. I'm not the expert anyway..... I just know what I like. I guess someone will just have to outbid me GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

 

...... and don't forget, I've forgiven you for disliking S&K

[Bronty]

The action 1 cover isn't by Shuster

[Bronty]

 

But on the other hand, you`re comfortable accepting valuations of low 7-figures for the likes of Hulk 181 and GSX 1, despite the same limited benchmarks.

 

Why is Action 1 restricted by known benchmarks but Hulk 181/GSX 1 not?

 

well isn't it obvious? Asking a public record to go from 600k to 1.5m is one thing; asking it to go from 600k to 7m another?

 

the first is more or less supported by the current benchmarks (public and private), the latter is off on an island.

[Bronty]

I really wish something like the Amazing Fantasy #15 story original art had hit the open market instead of a museum if only to see what kind of limits the market could see.

 

I couldn't agree more. From the POV of developing the market, a major opportunity lost.

[Bronty]

On the one hand, I'm an art guy and, like yourself, instinctively and intellectually, my inclination is to say that the art should be worth more. On the other hand, the cover art alone is just a slice of Superman's first appearance whereas the book has his full appearance in the size, shape, colors, and smell that all of us remember, and is regarded as the singular peak of the pyramid in a much larger hobby.

So by that token, why aren`t you arguing that the best known copy of AF 15 should be more valuable than the cover of AF 15?

 

For that matter, are you saying that the interior art of AF 15 would go for more than the cover?

 

I agree with that. Gene raised a lot of good points but the "only a slice of" thing applies to almost all comic art ever; its not a compelling argument to me.

 

I think Gene was searching for an explanation on why there just aren't a lot of GA art collectors or a lot of people that focus on it.

 

To me, its as simple as there just isn't enough of it out there. Full stop. There have always been many, many collectors interested in the artwork contained in the golden age comics, especially the covers. However, with no ability for the art to be purchased, it is out of sight and out of mind. No ability to research it, no opportunities to discuss with other collectors, no attaboys from Uncle Oleg. Nothing to obsess over. Nothing to refresh interest. Nothing to get competitive juices flowing either.

 

I think about my own collecting, because I feel like I can relate to both perspectives on this issue - I don't collect many comic books these days, but what i do are golden age Canadian whites. They are rare, wonderful treasures. Nil to virtually nil of the art to the books I'm interested in exists in private hands (institutions own a good chunk though).

 

If there was an active market for the art, I'd love to buy some. I can imagine which pages and covers I'd like best, and I'd love to acquire/frame/hang them, and I would find that very satisfying. But, there's no such active market. Little to nothing trades privately. Meaning that if I am going to buy or even just daydream about OA, I'm going to think about exactly what Gene mentioned - books from my youth - 80s independents, swamp thing, miracleman, dark knight, etc., perhaps the kirby and ditko books I read as reprints or collected early on, perhaps the kirby and ditko preheroes I appreciate as an adult.

 

Thoughts about stuff which I know doesn't exist I don't waste my time with. Even if a piece or two was available, there wouldn't be enough for me to really build a collection, and certainly not enough to support a collection for myself and for the fellow collectors needed to give me high fives

 

I think if we lived in a world where all that golden age art was on the market, you'd have a thriving market in it, and the a1 cover might already have big benchmarks to work off of. But we don't, and we will never: they are too dang rare for their own good.

 

Gene is right that the stuff from our youth has a special attachment to us - they hit hardest, ultimately. I love silver and bronze age art too and I 'could' buy some - but as he says, I don't. I don't love it enough to go after the art and pay the price and invest emotionally too I suppose. But, if the golden age stuff I like was available at a price I could justify, I'd collect that too because these days its really become the focus of my collecting interest and it would be a lovely complement to the books themselves. I suppose I don't know for sure if I'd write the checks unless I were in that situation, but I really believe I would, at least some of the time. However, I'll never get that opportunity, so outside of this thread I don't expect it to ever cross my mind again, so I'll go back to wishing I had the complete book to swamp thing 21 or the cover to dark knight 2

 

The point Gene made is dead on though - to collect the art long term it can't just be an area you "like" it has to be an area you LOVE love love. At least when the money invested becomes significant.

[Bronty]

Hmmm. Not sure why I didn't think about this sooner but the obvious case study is EC art. Its the one area of.. well calling it golden age is a stretch, but one early area where the art is totally out there.

 

What do we have in this area? Healthy prices in general, lots of 30-60k covers, a few classics that would outshine that, and a once-record WSF29 sale.

 

If DC & timely had kept all their art like gaines did, what would it look like? I think rank and file values wouldn't be much different (the equivalents of those 30-60k pieces would still be 30-60k - more collectors and more supply offsetting each other) but the trophies would go for a good deal more thanks to increased competition for them.