POLL: Which is worth more, the Mile High Action #1 or the Action #1 Cover OA?

[delekkerste]

You miss my point. By saying that Action 1 transcends comics, I`m not saying that it means a person with no interest in comics would suddenly be willing to buy it. But a person with some interest in comics or Americana would be willing to pay more for it than a cover that would be of interest to only those in the hobby, because if nothing else it would actually mean something if they showed it to outsiders.

 

Sure, but anyone with that knowledge/interest in the hobby wouldn't be as dismissive of GSXM 1 and all the other iconic covers I mentioned as you are making it seem, and would be far less likely to consider the Action #1 to be worth all of them combined and still have 7 figures of cash left over. I also think you are grossly overestimating how much this cover would be of interest to outsiders - if not absolutely, then certainly relative to other iconic covers within the hobby. Yeah, the 1st Superman is easy for people to understand. But the first new X-Men or the first Wolverine or a great cover drawn by the definitive FF artist does not exactly require a Ph.D. in neurobiology to understand either.

 

Anyway, I love how the opinion of outsiders didn't matter at all when we were talking about the GL #76 and ASM #98 covers and now they're suddenly instrumental to why the Action #1 cover would be worth more than the next __ number of iconic pieces in the hobby combined.

[tth2]

..... I notice you don't include any of the top census Silver Age D.C.'s in your hypothetical comparison........ D.C. purist snob GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

Just the opposite, I`m recognizing that the top SA DC books have such low values that they`re not even worth bringing into the equation.

 

The highest graded Showcase 4 & 22 and B&B 28 combined wouldn`t even equal 1 9.6 AF 15.

[Peter G]

72 votes so far. A mild consensus seems to be forming.

 

Mile High Action #1

-

28 39%

Action #1 Cover Art

-

40 56%

Dead equal in value

-

4 6%

[jimjum12]

72 votes so far. A mild consensus seems to be forming.

 

Mile High Action #1

-

28 39%

Action #1 Cover Art

-

40 56%

Dead equal in value

-

4 6%

 

...and the person who could afford either would likely pursue both...... GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

[october]

I agree. There are no benchmarks yet. That's the problem at this point in time that would preclude a 7m sale

 

This is such an important point. When Mike Gidwitz was asked if he regretted selling "the" Honus Wagner T-206 for 1.25 million after it later resold years later at double that price, he replied: "No, it had to go to a million first".

 

With no benchmarks in place, it's easy to say that the Action 1 cover would rocket to 10x the previous public sale of comic art, but I am not convinced that would happen. Action 1 the comic has a long and well documented market history and multiple million dollar sales make it "easier" for someone to drop millions on the Church Copy. No corollary exists for the art. A 5-10 million dollar buyer wouldn't just be setting a high water mark, they would be in totally uncharted territory at that number. The same could not be said for the comic buyer at 4-6 million.

 

I say the comic would go for more. The art would be a victim of its own uniqueness and the paucity of public art sales at anything approaching the numbers being thrown around.

[tth2]

I agree. There are no benchmarks yet. That's the problem at this point in time that would preclude a 7m sale

 

This is such an important point. When Mike Gidwitz was asked if he regretted selling "the" Honus Wagner T-206 for 1.25 million after it later resold years later at double that price, he replied: "No, it had to go to a million first".

 

With no benchmarks in place, it's easy to say that the Action 1 cover would rocket to 10x the previous public sale of comic art, but I am not convinced that would happen. Action 1 the comic has a long and well documented market history and multiple million dollar sales make it "easier" for someone to drop millions on the Church Copy. No corollary exists for the art. A 5-10 million dollar buyer wouldn't just be setting a high water mark, they would be in totally uncharted territory at that number. The same could not be said for the comic buyer at 4-6 million.

 

I say the comic would go for more. The art would be a victim of its own uniqueness and the paucity of public art sales at anything approaching the numbers being thrown around.

I would love for you guys to be correct, because I`d be happy to buy the Action 1 cover in an auction where everyone felt tied to the ASM 328 benchmark.

[delekkerste]

This is such an important point. When Mike Gidwitz was asked if he regretted selling "the" Honus Wagner T-206 for 1.25 million after it later resold years later at double that price, he replied: "No, it had to go to a million first".

 

With no benchmarks in place, it's easy to say that the Action 1 cover would rocket to 10x the previous public sale of comic art, but I am not convinced that would happen. Action 1 the comic has a long and well documented market history and multiple million dollar sales make it "easier" for someone to drop millions on the Church Copy. No corollary exists for the art. A 5-10 million dollar buyer wouldn't just be setting a high water mark, they would be in totally uncharted territory at that number. The same could not be said for the comic buyer at 4-6 million.

 

I say the comic would go for more. The art would be a victim of its own uniqueness and the paucity of public art sales at anything approaching the numbers being thrown around.

 

[delekkerste]

I would love for you guys to be correct, because I`d be happy to buy the Action 1 cover in an auction where everyone felt tied to the ASM 328 benchmark.

 

ASM #328 is an outlier, but most of the cognoscenti know of a number of mid-6-figure private sales of iconic covers, even one or two high 6-figure sales (one of which nobody believes, though), where several complete Ditko ASM stories were offered, where the biggest BSDs value the Hulk #181 cover, etc. So, we do have some loose benchmarks of value at higher levels than just the public comps. And, I don't doubt for a second that Action #1 would fetch more than any of these. But, I do think that it only goes so far into uncharted waters - the price of two or two and a half complete Ditko Spidey books? Maybe. The price or 3 or 4? I think it gets more difficult. 1.5-2x the price of GSXM 1 and Hulk 181 put together? Maybe. 3 or 4x? Again, it becomes harder to see. 5-6x the price of an A+ iconic Marvel '60s cover? Maybe. 10-12x some of the most iconic images from the Silver Age? I really doubt it.

[ciorac]

No one from outside the comics community would know or care about GSX 1 or IH 181.

 

Action 1 is iconic and transcends comic-dom.

 

So yeah, I could easily see it going for all of the various OA pieces you've mentioned, in the same way that I could see the MH Action 1 going for more than the 9.6 AF 15, 9.6 FF 1, 9.6 JIM 83, 9.8 ASM 1 and 9.4 IH 1 combined. They're just on completely different levels.

 

Count me in the non-transcending camp. Betting on huge moneyed outsiders with no connection to the source material coming in just to buy a trophy piece from our hobby that they don't really care about has proven time and again to be a sucker's bet. Rational minds can argue whether something like the Action #1 cover OA is so iconic and transcendental that it would be the exception, but, frankly, I still think it takes a very comic-centric view of the world to actually believe that. Would your old boss "Superman" really think he needed to spend $5-$10 million on something like this? Would any outsider, regardless of their bankroll, have the fanboys' clinical psychosis to justify that kind of heretofore unprecedented sum for something that really doesn't mean much/anything to them? I'll still take the "under" on that bet.

 

Anyway, if both the MH Action #1 and the theoretical Action #1 cover art are both worth more than all those other OA covers combined and then some, I guess the real takeaway is that either both are ludicrously overvalued or the latter is undervalued (at least on a relative basis).

 

Or, that they are valued just about right (the former and the latter)

[Peter G]

I agree. There are no benchmarks yet. That's the problem at this point in time that would preclude a 7m sale

 

This is such an important point. When Mike Gidwitz was asked if he regretted selling "the" Honus Wagner T-206 for 1.25 million after it later resold years later at double that price, he replied: "No, it had to go to a million first".

 

With no benchmarks in place, it's easy to say that the Action 1 cover would rocket to 10x the previous public sale of comic art, but I am not convinced that would happen. Action 1 the comic has a long and well documented market history and multiple million dollar sales make it "easier" for someone to drop millions on the Church Copy. No corollary exists for the art. A 5-10 million dollar buyer wouldn't just be setting a high water mark, they would be in totally uncharted territory at that number. The same could not be said for the comic buyer at 4-6 million.

 

I say the comic would go for more. The art would be a victim of its own uniqueness and the paucity of public art sales at anything approaching the numbers being thrown around.

I would love for you guys to be correct, because I`d be happy to buy the Action 1 cover in an auction where everyone felt tied to the ASM 328 benchmark.

 

. I would be bidding against you at that pricepoint

 

My "imagination" takes me a bit further out on the curve then most it seems

 

Lots here are rational and data driven. Not me.

[VintageComics]

I agree. There are no benchmarks yet. That's the problem at this point in time that would preclude a 7m sale

 

This is such an important point. When Mike Gidwitz was asked if he regretted selling "the" Honus Wagner T-206 for 1.25 million after it later resold years later at double that price, he replied: "No, it had to go to a million first".

 

With no benchmarks in place, it's easy to say that the Action 1 cover would rocket to 10x the previous public sale of comic art, but I am not convinced that would happen. Action 1 the comic has a long and well documented market history and multiple million dollar sales make it "easier" for someone to drop millions on the Church Copy. No corollary exists for the art. A 5-10 million dollar buyer wouldn't just be setting a high water mark, they would be in totally uncharted territory at that number. The same could not be said for the comic buyer at 4-6 million.

 

I say the comic would go for more. The art would be a victim of its own uniqueness and the paucity of public art sales at anything approaching the numbers being thrown around.

 

You don't consider all of the European art that has gone for $Millions to be a corollary?

 

Again, this isn't X-men #137 we are talking about here. This is the single greatest American comic book and possibly one of the greatest representations of American Pop Culture in existence.

 

In my opinion, it's now an artifact rather than just an article of collecting and it transcends comics.

 

[delekkerste]

You don't consider all of the European art that has gone for $Millions to be a corollary?

 

Nope. I think it's been shown time and again that it's just a completely different animal. Tintin sells for a couple mil and then Kirby sells for a fraction of that the next week. No correlation at all - different art, different cultures, different buyers, different critical reception, etc.

 

 

Again, this isn't X-men #137 we are talking about here. This is the single greatest American comic book and possibly one of the greatest representations of American Pop Culture in existence.

 

In my opinion, it's now an artifact rather than just an article of collecting and it transcends comics.

 

We'll have to agree to disagree on this. As with Tim, I think you greatly overestimate how much people outside the hobby care/would care about Action #1, whether we're talking about the comic or the OA, and how far this alleged transcending would affect market prices. Sounds like the OA equivalent of comic book movie hype where few on the outside care about the comics, but existing insiders are motivated to pay more. And, pay more they will - only the amount is in question. As in my earlier post above, I suspect it's less than you think.

[woowoo]

Does this count in the middle ?. Itsc kind of the art to the front cover and its before Action 1.

 

[Sqeggs]

You don't consider all of the European art that has gone for $Millions to be a corollary?

 

Nope. I think it's been shown time and again that it's just a completely different animal. Tintin sells for a couple mil and then Kirby sells for a fraction of that the next week. No correlation at all - different art, different cultures, different buyers, different critical reception, etc.

 

 

Again, this isn't X-men #137 we are talking about here. This is the single greatest American comic book and possibly one of the greatest representations of American Pop Culture in existence.

 

In my opinion, it's now an artifact rather than just an article of collecting and it transcends comics.

 

We'll have to agree to disagree on this. As with Tim, I think you greatly overestimate how much people outside the hobby care/would care about Action #1, whether we're talking about the comic or the OA, and how far this alleged transcending would affect market prices. Sounds like the OA equivalent of comic book movie hype where few on the outside care about the comics, but existing insiders are motivated to pay more. And, pay more they will - only the amount is in question. As in my earlier post above, I suspect it's less than you think.

 

For the auction price of the Action 1 Mile High to be driven through the roof by outside bidders, it would be necessary not just that the outsiders appreciate the significance of Action 1, but that they also appreciate what the Mile High collection is. After all, we just had an auction of a high-grade Action 1 and it was won by consummate insiders.

 

Still, I imagine that if the book were consigned to Heritage, they would put some serious effort into drumming up interest from outside bidders.

[Bronty]

Does this count in the middle ?. Itsc kind of the art to the front cover and its before Action 1.

 

 

 

black and white too don't forget!

[N e r V]

I voted art.

 

 

Regardless of what the Mile High Action #1 or the original art to #1 could sell at for auction today my money would be on the art which is one of a kind on the most historical comic published as the long term winner in value.

 

 

Yes there is only one (I'd still rather own a nice house even here in So-Cal for that price) Mile High copy and only one (probably) that will sit as the highest graded Action #1 ever but there are still many copies out there.

 

I've never owned one but I can count 3 unrestored non CGC graded copies that family or friends own. I've seen many copies over the years with various dealers.

 

The original art though is a one-shot deal that only one person could own.

 

It would be interesting to see both at auction either way.

[comicnoir]

Does this count in the middle ?. Itsc kind of the art to the front cover and its before Action 1.

 

 

 

black and white too don't forget!

 

Interesting how they didn't use the original art for this B&W ad. They shot it from the colour comic, hence the greytones. I wonder if the art even existed at this time? Although they would shoot the comic to get the logo etc. As a former production artist, I would have dropped a B&W line stat in.

[Mmehdy]

the "art" one of a kind, mona lisa material....

[MrBedrock]

It's kind of weird that I am actually starting to agree with Gene's points in this discussion. It really would be hard to fathom someone out of the blue coming in and bidding some amount approaching 10 million dollars for a hypothetical Action 1 cover, especially given the track record of OA sales through auction. And that would require a second person willing to pay a bid increment lower. At this point in time I just don't see it happening. It was the same discussion prior to the 15 cover sale. Some folks were speculating a million dollars, and frankly that is how I value it at, regardless of the market. Yet I would never have been willing to spend that amount of money for it. And I have no illusions of ever being able to sell it for that amount. The same with an Action 1 cover. Any of us would love to have it. Many of us would value it at a level higher than any other item in the hobby, but none of us would actually be willing to jump out and spend the dollar amounts speculated in this discussion on it.

 

But since this is a hypothetical question then hypothetically shouldn't the art be worth more? I'm not being snarky. The poll is telling us exactly that. As a collector of comic books intellectually it makes sense that the art would be more valuable than the published version. Most collectors would instantly say that, yes, the art is worth significantly more. Gene, I am curious if you would also feel that the art should be worth more, even you do not think it would sell for more? So if, in reality, the comic would sell for more does that say something about the market as a whole?

[Peter G]

The poll is telling us exactly that. As a collector of comic books intellectually it makes sense that the art would be more valuable than the published version. Most collectors would instantly say that, yes, the art is worth significantly more.

 

The poll is certainly an interesting piece of evidence. It seems to me that the OA market just simply hasn't developed yet to the same price point as the Action MH 1. To me it seems inevitable that OA will surpass comic books but it is fun to hear countering points of view.