Venom Movie 3 3

[Artboy99]

50 minutes ago, aardvark88 said:

fyi, Mysterio has been announced as Tom Holland's ASM's  next movie villian.

good, I have always wanted to see that. Arguably my favorite Spiderman villain

[fastballspecial]

Saw the new trailer yesterday. I like the Schizo touch. If they do that for a while in the movie it will 
add a different level to Venom. 

 

Edited August 19, 2018 by fastballspecial

[Lazyboy]

On 8/19/2018 at 3:50 AM, Jaydogrules said:

whereas McFarlane, ASM, anniversary issue, etc have always had ASM 300 in demand

Yeah, it's totally reasonable to compare an issue of a top-tier title that was drawn by McFarlane to an issue of a fourth-tier title that was drawn by nobody (no offense to Parobeck) because demand based on factors other than the villain appearance is clearly equal.

[RockMyAmadeus]

There is nothing "classic" about the cover to ASM #300.

It's a good cover...but it's hardly classic, and it's hardly unique. 

THIS is a classic cover:

Here's how you determine if something is a "classic cover" or not: 

1. If it is impactful. If it made most people say "holy shnit. Wow." when it came out. 

2. If it is well designed (this is the layout and use of space.)

3. If it is well executed (this is the quality of the linework itself.)

4. It's original - it's not an idea that's been done and/or seen before.

5. If it is easily understood by all who see it.

6. If multiple generations, upon first encountering it, have the same reaction.

And it has to have ALL those qualities, not just some of them.

Here is another classic cover:

THIS is a classic cover:

THIS is a classic cover:

That doesn't mean it's not a historic cover...it is. But it's not a classic cover, and there's a difference. When it came out, the reaction to the cover wasn't especially strong. It was good, it was well done...but people's reaction was to the interior art...that's what made buyers say "whoa...what on earth is THIS now??"

Here's the most important thing to avoid: do not mistake your personal nostalgic feelings for a cover for an objective analysis of what makes a "classic" cover. It's easy to do that...but it would be a mistake. 

Yes, I know people will disagree. Those who disagree, I would invite you to come up with your own definitions for what makes a "classic" cover and/or why ASM #300 would fit the bill.

Edited August 24, 2018 by RockMyAmadeus

[RockMyAmadeus]

And having seen all the trailers thus far, I am not hopeful about this movie. It looks really silly, and the whole "talking to Eddie" that the symbiote does really ratchets up the silliness.

It would have had much, much more impact if that voice were saved ONLY for when Eddie is Venom, talking to others. Having the symbiote talk to Eddie loses a ton if impact.

[Lazyboy]

14 hours ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

Here's the most important thing to avoid: do not mistake your personal nostalgic feelings for a cover for an objective analysis of what makes a "classic" cover. It's easy to do that...but it would be a mistake.

Conflation of well known and classic covers is also caused by some covers being constantly and highly visible because the issue is important rather than the cover itself being anything special.

[RockMyAmadeus]

1 minute ago, Lazyboy said:

14 hours ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

Here's the most important thing to avoid: do not mistake your personal nostalgic feelings for a cover for an objective analysis of what makes a "classic" cover. It's easy to do that...but it would be a mistake.

Conflation of well known and classic covers is also caused by some covers being constantly and highly visible because the issue is important rather than the cover itself being anything special.

Agreed.

When you go to conventions, year after year, and see the same covers on display over and over again, it makes an impact that is indisputable.

[AnthonyTheAbyss]

18 hours ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

 Yes, I know people will disagree. Those who disagree, I would invite you to come up with your own definitions for what makes a "classic" cover and/or why ASM #300 would fit the bill.

I don't disagree BUT...

...when something is based on the opinions of other people (where a large group, but not necessarily everybody, would have to agree) there's always going to be some objectivity.

 

So objectively, I would consider the ASM #300 a classic.

 

***Official definition of "classic":  Judged over a period of time to be of the highest quality and outstanding of its kind.

 

[mattn792]

Having finally got around to watching trailer #2, my hopes for this one have improved.  The CGI seems to have been cleaned up very well (probably could use some more fine tuning) as the suit no longer looks like a combo of foam rubber and used drinking straws. 

On ‎8‎/‎23‎/‎2018 at 10:44 PM, RockMyAmadeus said:

And having seen all the trailers thus far, I am not hopeful about this movie. It looks really silly, and the whole "talking to Eddie" that the symbiote does really ratchets up the silliness.

It would have had much, much more impact if that voice were saved ONLY for when Eddie is Venom, talking to others. Having the symbiote talk to Eddie loses a ton if impact.

I disagree on this, I think the internal dialogue between the two adds a great element to the movie.  Especially when Eddie is first trying to figure out what is going on inside of him.

[jsilverjanet]

so no one is going to mention that Tom Hardy is signed on for 3 Venom movies?

[mattn792]

27 minutes ago, jsilverjanet said:

so no one is going to mention that Tom Hardy is signed on for 3 Venom movies?

Tom Hardy is signed on for 3 Venom movies.  

[jsilverjanet]

 

[jsilverjanet]

On ‎8‎/‎23‎/‎2018 at 10:40 PM, RockMyAmadeus said:

Yes, I know people will disagree. Those who disagree, I would invite you to come up with your own definitions for what makes a "classic" cover and/or why ASM #300 would fit the bill.

I agree it's not a "classic" cover. A better way to describe it would be an "iconic" cover

[AnthonyTheAbyss]

14 hours ago, jsilverjanet said:

so no one is going to mention that Tom Hardy is signed on for 3 Venom movies?

Not worth mentioning until we see the outcome of the first movie.  Sony is trying to launch an entire spider-universe with this movie as a starting point.  I think they're trying to do what Iron Man did for the MCU.

 

If this movie fails epically (which I hope it doesn't) I can see the studio halting everything.

[Broke as a Joke]

16 hours ago, jsilverjanet said:

so no one is going to mention that Tom Hardy is signed on for 3 Venom movies?

I am pretty sure that actor that played Han Solo in Solo was signed up for multiple movies as well.  Doesn't mean anything till we see the receipts.

[MGsimba77]

8 hours ago, AnthonyTheAbyss said:

Not worth mentioning until we see the outcome of the first movie.  Sony is trying to launch an entire spider-universe with this movie as a starting point.  I think they're trying to do what Iron Man did for the MCU.

 

If this movie fails epically (which I hope it doesn't) I can see the studio halting everything.

Which is why they're desperately trying to avoid an R rating

[Jaydogrules]

7 hours ago, Broke as a Joke said:

I am pretty sure that actor that played Han Solo in Solo was signed up for multiple movies as well.  Doesn't mean anything till we see the receipts.

This movie will make more than aquaman on less than half the budget.  

-J.

[Martin Sinescu]

On 8/23/2018 at 11:40 PM, RockMyAmadeus said:

 

Here's how you determine if something is a "classic cover" or not: 

1. If it is impactful. If it made most people say "holy shnit. Wow." when it came out. 

2. If it is well designed (this is the layout and use of space.)

3. If it is well executed (this is the quality of the linework itself.)

4. It's original - it's not an idea that's been done and/or seen before.

5. If it is easily understood by all who see it.

6. If multiple generations, upon first encountering it, have the same reaction.

And it has to have ALL those qualities, not just some of them.

I'm curious, from what source is this drawn as the accepted method of determining a classic cover?

Edited August 28, 2018 by Martin Sinescu

[RockMyAmadeus]

2 hours ago, Martin Sinescu said:

I'm curious, from what source is this drawn as the accepted method of determining a classic cover?

 

On 8/23/2018 at 8:40 PM, RockMyAmadeus said:

Yes, I know people will disagree. Those who disagree, I would invite you to come up with your own definitions for what makes a "classic" cover

 

Edited August 28, 2018 by RockMyAmadeus

[RockMyAmadeus]

On 8/24/2018 at 3:12 PM, AnthonyTheAbyss said:

don't disagree BUT...

...when something is based on the opinions of other people (where a large group, but not necessarily everybody, would have to agree) there's always going to be some objectivity.

 

So objectively, I would consider the ASM #300 a classic.

 

***Official definition of "classic":  Judged over a period of time to be of the highest quality and outstanding of its kind.

That definition doesn't take into account many works that are considered classic, but aren't necessarily "of the highest quality and outstanding of its kind." Conan #1, for example, might be heralded as a "classic cover", but is not an example of a very young, very inexperienced Smith's best work. 

Amazing Spiderman #50 is considered a "classic cover"...but it wasn't always considered that, and it wasn't "broken out" for its cover until the CGC era.

And...there are many works that are of the highest quality and outstanding of its kind that are NOT considered to be "classic." 

Is Crime Suspenstories #22 a masterpiece of the artform?...ehhh, probably not. But would anyone suggest it's NOT a "classic cover"?

How many "classic cover" designations are there that are just because Bob Overstreet's personal opinion...and his alone...was the determining factor?

The answer is "not none."

Obviously, there's a great deal of subjectivity, BUT....it's easy to see, over time, how many other people viewed the cover (that's the "impact" that I mentioned above.)

I've yet to see a compelling argument for why ASM #300 should be considered a "classic" cover. It's a decent cover, for sure, but the red "300" up and down the cover is a distraction as much as a plus. It's certainly not part of the artistic quality, because it's not part of the art. Spidey's pose is the typical radically unnatural pose that McFarlane was famous for. The cityscape is decent, but it's a bit fuzzy, and not a masterpiece of detail.

In other words, it's a decent cover. But I don't know that anyone would objectively say it's "of the highest quality and outstanding of its kind."

The cover to #325, on the other hand, is...obviously in my opinion...a masterpiece, the best cover, artistically and compositionally, that McFarlane has EVER done. The detail is outstanding, the layout is fantastic...3 different levels of perspective, and they all work...McFarlane really put everything he had into this cover. And yet...no "classic cover" designation.