THE FLASH starring Ezra Miller 2022 10 10

[Broke as a Joke]

Sad that a legendary character like the Flash will probably never get a solo movie again after this bomb.  Way to waste a great character DCU.

[media_junkie]

On 6/25/2023 at 6:57 PM, Broke as a Joke said:

Sad that a legendary character like the Flash will probably never get a solo movie again after this bomb.  Way to waste a great character DCU.

Yeah, we might see him in a team movie or cameo in someone else's movie but after this turkey I don't think WB will greenlight another stand alone Flash movie.  Look at Green Lantern and how much potential is in that character and one bomb put him down for the count.

[thegiftedone45]

On 6/25/2023 at 6:57 PM, Broke as a Joke said:

Sad that a legendary character like the Flash will probably never get a solo movie again after this bomb.  Way to waste a great character DCU.

Be glad he got at least one. Signed a Nightwing fan who's favorite character has only appeared as dead in live action movies in the last 20+ years.

[Axelrod]

On 6/25/2023 at 6:57 PM, Broke as a Joke said:

Sad that a legendary character like the Flash will probably never get a solo movie again after this bomb.  Way to waste a great character DCU.

I mean, you do realize that the reason for this movie's failure is less about the quality of the film itself than it is about the lead actor's troubles/scandals and the lame duckness of the current DC universe, yes?

It's not a "bomb" because it's bad and a "waste" of the character.

[media_junkie]

On 6/25/2023 at 11:19 PM, Axelrod said:

I mean, you do realize that the reason for this movie's failure is less about the quality of the film itself than it is about the lead actor's troubles/scandals and the lame duckness of the current DC universe, yes?

It's not a "bomb" because it's bad and a "waste" of the character.

While that may very well be true, a bomb is a bomb no matter the reasons. 

If the studio ends up losing $100+ million on this film (which it will and could end up losing a heck of a lot more), then Flash movies are dead.  I mean if this keeps tracking the way it is it will do the same amount domestically as Green Lantern did in 2011 ($116 million domestic on a $200 million budget and this Flash movie has a much bigger budget).  Zaslav was quick to shut down other movies and write them off, and well he should have done the same with this.  The combination of an extremely troubled/unlikeable lead actor and from what I hear some not so great CGI has killed this movie and this leg of the franchise for at least twenty years.

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 6/24/2023 at 4:14 PM, Bosco685 said:

It is interesting who we were supposed to see greeting Barry in the end, but WB couldn't pull it off.

  Hide contents

 

 

Spoiler

Bale probably asked Nolan, and with the way WB treated Nolan and Snyder... They made their own bed when it comes to favors.

 

Edited June 26, 2023 by theCapraAegagrus

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 6/25/2023 at 5:37 AM, Bosco685 said:

I didn't think he was awful. Barry 1 (older) was seeing Barry 2 (younger) as super-carefree because he had his mother and father to do everything for him his entire life. To include associating with similar friends which Barry 1 had no friends in his life because he was so emotionally torn over how cruel life had turned out to be. And having to heavily focus on freeing his father.

So the back-and-forth was a more seasoned Barry having to deal with a different and more self-centered variant of himself. Though I do agree some of the dialogue between them over-emphasized the differences on life.

I thought it was extremely mature and (mostly) well-written the way Barry interacted with his younger and better-off self. He literally inspired his younger self, as we see in the end.

[Cman429]

Marvel tried again with Hulk a few years after Ang Lee’s misfire and they didn’t wait long after either of the terrible Spideys (S3 or ASM2) to reboot so the notion Flash or GL would be blacklisted for 20 years is a bit much. Snyder had every intention of introducing a new GL in JL and spinning him off in his own movie for example. 

Clearly anything connected to the Snyderverse is radioactive and doomed. Unless it’s contractually obligated, I don’t see why they release Blue Beetle or Aquaman bc both are gonna bomb. They can’t even give them a week token theatrical run then push it on MAX bc they assured theaters of the 45 day window. At this point, I imagine Zaslav wishes he had written off all these DCU movies. 

The future of DC comes down to Gunn’s Superman. If that doesn’t hit and hit HUGE then they’ll scale down his remaining projects before dumping him and scrapping everything. A company $50 billion in debt can’t keep throwing good money after bad. 

[media_junkie]

On 6/26/2023 at 7:39 AM, Cman429 said:

Marvel tried again with Hulk a few years after Ang Lee’s misfire and they didn’t wait long after either of the terrible Spideys (S3 or ASM2) to reboot so the notion Flash or GL would be blacklisted for 20 years is a bit much. 

Universal was the studio that released both the Hulk movies they both lost money and If I was a studio head I wouldn't be hot to release a 3rd Hulk movie (which 15 years later has not happened.  Now this could be because of rights issues, I have no idea who can do what with the hulk).  Spider-man is Marvel's Batman, he is the most recognizable character in their fleet.  Once superhero movies were "the thing" there is no way Sony would let him sit on the shelf.  Also if I am not mistaken, while both S3 and ASM2 underperformed from what the studio wanted they both made money.  Green Lantern and the Flash did not and will not make money, they did/will end up costing the studio millions upon millions of dollars.  Big difference going to head of the company and saying "Hey while this movie didn't make as much as we wanted it did make money we think it is time to reboot Spiderman" as opposed to saying "Hey this movie that cost us $100 million dollars out of pocket that we will never see back, well I think we are ready for a Flash 2".

Quote

Snyder had every intention of introducing a new GL in JL and spinning him off in his own movie for example. 

While that is all well and good, it didn't happen because the Studio kept it from happening.  They wouldn't even let him put Green Lanten in as a cameo in the ZSJL cut.  If the studio was so hot for a Green Lantern project where is it?  12 years plus since the last bomb and nothing.  Sure they keep saying "Well this is our plan", but yeah, nothing.

Quote

Clearly anything connected to the Snyderverse is radioactive and doomed. Unless it’s contractually obligated, I don’t see why they release Blue Beetle or Aquaman bc both are gonna bomb. They can’t even give them a week token theatrical run then push it on MAX bc they assured theaters of the 45 day window. At this point, I imagine Zaslav wishes he had written off all these DCU movies.

I think the Snyderverse was doomed by the studio meddling (please note I am 100% a Snyder fan so my opinion on this is tainted), but no matter if it was studio meddling or maybe his vision was just not the right one it is over, time to move on.  I agree with you on Blue Beetle and Aquaman.  I think BB will be a bomb and while I think Aquaman will make money (based on budget due to all the reshoots and stuff) the $1.1 billion the first movie made is off the table, I'm thinking $700 to 800$ box office for this one.

Quote

The future of DC comes down to Gunn’s Superman. If that doesn’t hit and hit HUGE then they’ll scale down his remaining projects before dumping him and scrapping everything. A company $50 billion in debt can’t keep throwing good money after bad. 

100% in full agreement with you here.

Edited June 26, 2023 by media_junkie
grammer stuff

[drotto]

On 6/26/2023 at 8:51 AM, media_junkie said:

Universal was the studio that released both the Hulk movies they both lost money and If I was a studio head I wouldn't be hot to release a 3rd Hulk movie (which 15 years later has not happened.  Now this could be because of rights issues, I have no idea who can do what with the hulk).  Spider-man is Marvel's Batman, he is the most recognizable character in their fleet.  Once superhero movies were "the thing" there is no way Sony would let him sit on the shelf.  Also if I am not mistaken, while both S3 and ASM2 underperformed from what the studio wanted they both made money.  Green Lantern and the Flash did not and will not make money, they did/will end up costing the studio millions upon millions of dollars.  Big difference going to head of the company and saying "Hey while this movie didn't make as much as we wanted it did make money we think it is time to reboot Spiderman" as opposed to saying "Hey this movie that cost us $100 million dollars out of pocket that we will never see back, well I think we are ready for a Flash 2".

While that is all well and good, it didn't happen because the Studio kept it from happening.  They wouldn't even let him put Green Lanten in as a cameo in the ZSJL cut.  If the studio was so hot for a Green Lantern project where is it?  12 years plus since the last bomb and nothing.  Sure they keep saying "Well this is our plan", but yeah, nothing.

I think the Snyderverse was doomed by the studio meddling (please note I am 100% a Snyder fan so my opinion on this is tainted), but no matter if it was studio meddling or maybe his vision was just not the right one it is over, time to move on.  I agree with you on Blue Beetle and Aquaman.  I think BB will be a bomb and while I think Aquaman will make money (based on budget due to all the reshoots and stuff) the $1.1 billion the first movie made is off the table, I'm thinking $700 to 800$ box office for this one.

100% in full agreement with you here.

This movie just seems to prove DC's second tier characters get no traction.  They need to concentrate on Superman, Batman, and Winder Woman for the next 5 or so years. I would say that means 2 movies for each of them. Establish those characters in the new movie universe, then start brining in B and C level characters leading to the big team film.

[thegiftedone45]

On 6/26/2023 at 7:39 AM, Cman429 said:

Marvel tried again with Hulk a few years after Ang Lee’s misfire and they didn’t wait long after either of the terrible Spideys (S3 or ASM2) to reboot so the notion Flash or GL would be blacklisted for 20 years is a bit much. Snyder had every intention of introducing a new GL in JL and spinning him off in his own movie for example. 

Clearly anything connected to the Snyderverse is radioactive and doomed. Unless it’s contractually obligated, I don’t see why they release Blue Beetle or Aquaman bc both are gonna bomb. They can’t even give them a week token theatrical run then push it on MAX bc they assured theaters of the 45 day window. At this point, I imagine Zaslav wishes he had written off all these DCU movies. 

The future of DC comes down to Gunn’s Superman. If that doesn’t hit and hit HUGE then they’ll scale down his remaining projects before dumping him and scrapping everything. A company $50 billion in debt can’t keep throwing good money after bad. 

If DC isn't going to get rid of the Blue Beetle and Aquaman movies they would be smart to delay Aquaman for a year since it seems Mamoa isn't going to be Aquaman again.  Delay Blue Beetle for 2 years since it seems that he will be in the newer movies they're starting to come up with.

Edited June 26, 2023 by thegiftedone45

[MAR1979]

The debate over the two DC films sometimes focuses on the quality of the movie, but it's all about money and expectations. Forgetting it's a multi-hero franchise film, The Flash box office take was respectable. However, it's now a world where a $135.7 million global box office is a dismal failure. Yet, it could be because the reported budget for The Flash was $220 million before marketing. In the 2020s, the required marketing budget is expected to match the film's budget, though The Flash's budget breaks that scale. Further, this film has been delayed multiple times, so the studio had to selectively market it for around three years. WB Discovery must split the take with theaters. Once the film is profitable, the studio will have to pay out and "backend" deals with actors, producers or the director. The specifics of all these aren't known, but it's safe to infer that $500 million is closer to "break-even" territory than profit. Batgirl, however, was canceled because $90 million was already too expensive and, if finished, would harm the DC brand. Those who didn't enjoy The Flash find the latter bit hard to believe.
https://www.cbr.com/the-flash-box-office-failure-batgirl-cancelation-debates/

Fire Zaslev! Claw back his $252Million 2022 Salary+Bonus, his idiocy has cost them 100's of millions.

Edited June 26, 2023 by MAR1979

[paperheart]

#releasetheBatgirl

THE FLASH Would Have Likely Lost Less Money Had It Been Released On Max Instead On In Theaters

https://comicbookmovie.com/the-flash/the-flash-would-have-likely-lost-less-money-had-it-been-released-on-max-instead-on-in-theaters-a204025?utm_medium=webpush&utm_source=pushly&utm_campaign=auto#gs.1qvvna

[eastriver400]

On 6/26/2023 at 11:05 AM, paperheart said:

#releasetheBatgirl

THE FLASH Would Have Likely Lost Less Money Had It Been Released On Max Instead On In Theaters

https://comicbookmovie.com/the-flash/the-flash-would-have-likely-lost-less-money-had-it-been-released-on-max-instead-on-in-theaters-a204025?utm_medium=webpush&utm_source=pushly&utm_campaign=auto#gs.1qvvna

 

Thats a shame. Hopefully, they will send Blue Beetle and Aquaman 2 straight to MAX. I don't buy it for a second that Blue Beetle is the first DCU character. Thats just more hype.

 

As a DC fan, I am putting all my eggs in the Gunn basket. I truly believe he will do these characters justice.  

 

 

 

 

Edited June 26, 2023 by eastriver400

[jsilverjanet]

the boards and it's members are strong!

Edited June 26, 2023 by jsilverjanet

[Bosco685]

On 6/26/2023 at 2:10 PM, jsilverjanet said:

the boards and it's members are strong!

[kimik]

On 6/26/2023 at 6:51 AM, media_junkie said:

Universal was the studio that released both the Hulk movies they both lost money and If I was a studio head I wouldn't be hot to release a 3rd Hulk movie (which 15 years later has not happened.  Now this could be because of rights issues, I have no idea who can do what with the hulk).  Spider-man is Marvel's Batman, he is the most recognizable character in their fleet.  Once superhero movies were "the thing" there is no way Sony would let him sit on the shelf.  Also if I am not mistaken, while both S3 and ASM2 underperformed from what the studio wanted they both made money.  Green Lantern and the Flash did not and will not make money, they did/will end up costing the studio millions upon millions of dollars.  Big difference going to head of the company and saying "Hey while this movie didn't make as much as we wanted it did make money we think it is time to reboot Spiderman" as opposed to saying "Hey this movie that cost us $100 million dollars out of pocket that we will never see back, well I think we are ready for a Flash 2".

While that is all well and good, it didn't happen because the Studio kept it from happening.  They wouldn't even let him put Green Lanten in as a cameo in the ZSJL cut.  If the studio was so hot for a Green Lantern project where is it?  12 years plus since the last bomb and nothing.  Sure they keep saying "Well this is our plan", but yeah, nothing.

I think the Snyderverse was doomed by the studio meddling (please note I am 100% a Snyder fan so my opinion on this is tainted), but no matter if it was studio meddling or maybe his vision was just not the right one it is over, time to move on.  I agree with you on Blue Beetle and Aquaman.  I think BB will be a bomb and while I think Aquaman will make money (based on budget due to all the reshoots and stuff) the $1.1 billion the first movie made is off the table, I'm thinking $700 to 800$ box office for this one.

100% in full agreement with you here.

We will see what happens with Aquaman 2. The box office for the first one surprised me, and if it does $700-$800 that is current Batman level numbers which would be great for a B or C character. James Wan is one of the most bankable directors right now so I would not be surprised if he has another surprisingly big international box office. It would be funny to see Aquaman 2 top the most recent Batman film as the current biggest DC superhero draw. 

Edited June 26, 2023 by kimik

[The humble Watcher lurking]

On 6/26/2023 at 2:22 PM, Bosco685 said:

I still plan to see The Flash, but the bigger picture might be that superhero fatigue has really set in.  Antman 3 and the latest Disney Plus Marvel tv shows haven't moved the dial much either. I have a good friend who kept telling me that the Westerns were kings of media at one time. I didn't think much about comparing Westerns to superheroes, but might have to rethink that thought now. Also, Youtube FOMO dudes are in panic mode as their movie comics have dropped 50 percent. I don't see Marvels and Blue Beetle movies no matter how well they are made moving the needle at the box office. Looks like a great time to be a comic book collector again, but not so much a comic book speculator. Should be a very interesting next year in the comic book world. 

Edited June 26, 2023 by The humble Watcher lurking

[paperheart]

On 6/26/2023 at 2:40 PM, kimik said:

We will see what happens with Aquaman 2. The box office for the first one surprised me, and if it does $700-$800 that is current Batman level numbers which would be great for a B or C character. James Wan is one of the most bankable directors right now so I would not be surprised if he has another surprisingly big international box office. It would be funny to see Aquaman 2 top the most recent Batman film as the current biggest DC superhero draw. 

will it do $300M like the first one in China? since China opened back up, the best showing for a CBM was GOTG3 w/ $90M (S-M:ASV $50M, A-M:Q $40M, Flash $30M)

[Bosco685]

On 6/26/2023 at 6:16 PM, The humble Watcher lurking said:

I still, plan to see The Flash, but the bigger picture might be that superhero fatigue has really set in.  Antman 3 and the latest Disney Plus Marvel tv shows haven't moved the dial much either. I have a good friend who kept telling me that the Westerns were kings of media at one time. I didn't think much about comparing Westerns to superheroes, but might have to rethink that thought now. Also, Youtube FOMO dudes are in panic mode as their movie comics have dropped 50 percent. I don't see Marvels and Blue Beetle movies no matter how well they are made moving the needle at the box office. Looks like a great time to be a comic book collector again, but not so much a comic book speculator. Should be a very interesting next year in the comic book world. 

I feel very strongly the biggest contributor to this Flash crash is WB Studios, and its crazy years of mishandling valuable brands for a very long time. Including trashing talent when they needed to put the blame on someone else to deflect what caused failures. And even when they could have made BVS a massive event by just leaving it alone, even that WB had to tamper with it and cut out a valuable 30 minutes. Yet once the Ultimate Edition was released, those with a less biased mindset saw how key they were to the story. WB could have used this huge release as something to drive greater interest in its longer roadmap. But nope - WB had to do what WB does with its comic book properties: tamper.

So now you have a returning Cavill become a no-return. A Ben Affleck appearing on the Aquaman set and an excited Jason Momoa to a "one last time Batman" cameo appearance. Gal Gadot dismissed out of the blue, and Jenkins politely sent packing. Gunn with his relaunch/not a relaunch/well a partial relaunch. And all this playing out throughout the press for a wider audience to be aware of the mess.

Craziest studio handling of supposed valued brands that even Zaslav before the final merger proclaimed how they must be protected.

Edited June 26, 2023 by Bosco685