MOST VALUABLE MODERN VARIANTS - THE RANKINGS 17 17

[RockMyAmadeus]

sorry my other question, which could well by stupid / obvious

 

I see a lot of 1:200, 1:500 etc notations these days

 

Do you guys know what the overall print runs actually are to determine relative scarcity?

 

 

Generally, no. The print runs of retailer incentives is kept under wraps by Marvel, DC, and a few others, for clear reasons.

 

 

Secondly, how, other than the publishers word, do you know the ratio is accurate?

 

 

Because that ratio has to do with distribution, not print run. As any retailer can tell you who deals in retailer incentives, those numbers are strictly adhered to when it comes time to distribute the books initially. That is, if you ordered 50 copies of Comic Book #XYZ, you may order ONE copy of the 1:50 variant...and that's what you get. The ratio is always accurate, because that's how the program works (for your typical retailer.) Of course, for certain retailers, the rules can be a bit different, because of the volume they deal with on a regular basis...and rightly so.

 

Other than a vague "in the same county" estimate, the reported Direct, North American sales of the regular version of most books has very little to do with either the distribution ratio or the print runs of retailer incentives.

 

A lot of...and I do mean quite a few....people don't understand this, so you see a lot of people saying "well, at Comichron, the print run (already a mistake) was 100,000, so a 1:100 must have had only 1,000 copies printed."

 

That's not true at all. Those numbers are for initial distribution purposes...that is, the incentive....and don't have much to do with what the publisher decides to print.

 

It is, unfortunately, a pretty big problem since retailer incentives became a "thing" in the early to mid 00's.

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

Lazyboy- Do your replies only reflect DC and marvel? what about indie publishhers like zenescope, Dynamite, eternity comics who have micro print runs of 50, 25 and 10 and books are hard serially #?

 

What about Image?

 

 

Not to answer for Lazyboy, but many of the Indie publishers do release print run information for retailer incentives...again, for their own purposes. For example, the various Harris Vampirella books, which print runs have almost always been advertised, even with incentives, and, of course, anything that is "hard numbered" is supposed to be limited that way...and they usually are, with random "unnumbered" copies eventually finding their way out of files in later years.

 

Was the MLP one million actually only printed to the tune of a single copy...? Maybe. Maybe not. Were the Chaos Octagons actually only printed to 8 copies...? Maybe...maybe not.

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

By the way, speaking of Chaos Octagons...those books should be on this list, since most of them, or at least a couple of them, would sell for $2,000 or more, if they ever came to market. Sure, they're "sketched", but that's not really the point. The point is that they are limited to 8.

 

As well, are we excluding variant ashcans...? The Maxx #1 and #3 Blacks should qualify for the list. Also, what about the Maxx Blue and Red 1/2s? These were neither errors nor recalled.

 

PS. Batman #608 is not the granddaddy of the RRPs. There were two RRPs...that have the letters "RRP" printed on them....before that one. All Star Comics #1 RRP and Superman: The Wedding Album. And Batman #608 doesn't have the letters "RRP" on it, though that's a minor quibble.

 

 

[EwanUK]

thanks Amadeus

 

great thread, so apologies if slight lateral moves

 

Last question: I note that the "Vader Down" variant has apparently just 14 copies printed. They now sell for huge amounts

 

Would it be viable for a modern print-business to actually print such low numbers?

Surely the risk of theft would become a real problem? worth more than their weight in gold after all...

[fastballspecial]

When print runs are that low you have to ask what the purpose is?

 

There are several answers to that question none of which I like.

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

thanks Amadeus

 

great thread, so apologies if slight lateral moves

 

Last question: I note that the "Vader Down" variant has apparently just 14 copies printed. They now sell for huge amounts

 

Would it be viable for a modern print-business to actually print such low numbers?

Surely the risk of theft would become a real problem? worth more than their weight in gold after all...

 

 

No, the print run wasn't 14 copies. Notice where all the hyperbole comes from: entities trying to sell those copies. There's a built-in conflict of interest. Marvel is owned by Disney, and Disney DOES produce extremely limited merchandise...and they have generally, if not always, announced said limitations.

 

Marvel is, of course, in the business to sell copies. So, yes, they WANT the "rumor" to be that "only 12 (14, 15, 16, etc...which is it? Answer: none of the above) copies were printed!!!"...it fuels their incentive program.

 

But Marvel steadfastly refuses to release this information publicly. Why...? Because they are in the business of selling more copies, and transparency hinders that "mystique" (aka, the Franklin Mint mentality.)

 

Think about it...the US Mint was clandestinely striking choice rarities in the mid-1800's, and distributing them in incredibly clandestine ways....and that was a gov't entity! Quad/Graphics doesn't exist in a vacuum....they know these variants are going to have value. Comics are printed by the thousands an hour. "Boutique comics" can be printed to any number...just costs the setup. What's to stop anyone from running a few extra "just in case"? Now, I'm certainly not suggesting that that happens at all...maybe Marvel has a representative who works at Quad/Graphics to oversee these things, I don't know. But...with the increasing "value" of these items, the likelihood of shenanigans also increases.

 

Orrrr....the printer knows that the actual print run isn't 12....or 14...or 16....or whatever the number du jour being thrown around by people with a vested interest in keeping that number as low as possible is....and therefore has no incentive to commit any sort of chicanery.

 

The hype (from "hyperbole") ought to be very, very carefully considered, from all parties. This has nothing to do with the variants themselves...variants are awesome, and no one should let anyone tell them I said otherwise....it has to do with the marketing of these items to an increasingly rabid customer base.

 

It's like marketing crack to addicts.

 

Remember this, if anyone reading this remembers nothing else: this is not at ALL the first time that an industry has produced "incredibly rare, incredibly limited" items that sell for oodles of money. In almost every case, it has been discovered that that was never really the case at all.

 

Beware of people trying to sell you something, always.

 

 

[ygogolak]

I like this RMA.

 

It's like marketing crack to addicts.

[RockMyAmadeus]

I like this RMA.

 

 

 

Same RMA as before.

 

[Awax]

I like this RMA.

 

 

 

Same RMA as before.

 

 

 

But new and improved with Spoilers

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

I like this RMA.

 

 

 

Same RMA as before.

 

 

 

But new and improved with Spoilers

 

 

We'll see. Maybe people will be less inclined to get upset reading something they don't like if they have to make an effort to read it.

 

[rjrjr]

thanks Amadeus

 

great thread, so apologies if slight lateral moves

 

Last question: I note that the "Vader Down" variant has apparently just 14 copies printed. They now sell for huge amounts

 

Would it be viable for a modern print-business to actually print such low numbers?

Surely the risk of theft would become a real problem? worth more than their weight in gold after all...

 

Haven't more than 14 of these surfaced? It felt like more than 14 have been up for sale since this book has been announced.

[BarryAllen]

thanks Amadeus

 

great thread, so apologies if slight lateral moves

 

Last question: I note that the "Vader Down" variant has apparently just 14 copies printed. They now sell for huge amounts

 

Would it be viable for a modern print-business to actually print such low numbers?

Surely the risk of theft would become a real problem? worth more than their weight in gold after all...

 

Haven't more than 14 of these surfaced? It felt like more than 14 have been up for sale since this book has been announced.

 

I heard it was the same one 14 times...

 

[rjrjr]

thanks Amadeus

 

great thread, so apologies if slight lateral moves

 

Last question: I note that the "Vader Down" variant has apparently just 14 copies printed. They now sell for huge amounts

 

Would it be viable for a modern print-business to actually print such low numbers?

Surely the risk of theft would become a real problem? worth more than their weight in gold after all...

 

Haven't more than 14 of these surfaced? It felt like more than 14 have been up for sale since this book has been announced.

 

I heard it was the same one 14 times...

 

 

It is possible the same book has sold multiple times already. There are 9 sales of this book in eBay since early March. This book came out in December when all the high profile sales went down. Definitely more than 14 sales of this book. And with a few outliers, this book has gotten cheaper every time it sells it seems. I know there was just the $3700 sale, but that has not been the trend of the book. Earlier this month, it was selling for $2000 less than that.

 

I'm guessing there are more than 14 out there.

Edited April 25, 2016 by rjrjr

[ygogolak]

thanks Amadeus

 

great thread, so apologies if slight lateral moves

 

Last question: I note that the "Vader Down" variant has apparently just 14 copies printed. They now sell for huge amounts

 

Would it be viable for a modern print-business to actually print such low numbers?

Surely the risk of theft would become a real problem? worth more than their weight in gold after all...

 

Haven't more than 14 of these surfaced? It felt like more than 14 have been up for sale since this book has been announced.

 

I heard it was the same one 14 times...

 

 

It is possible the same book has sold multiple times already, but each time it sells, it has sold for less than the previous one.

 

That's what I thought, but look at the most recent. Shilled?

 

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=VADER%20DOWN%201%3A4999&LH_Complete=1&LH_Sold=1&rt=nc&_trksid=p2045573.m1684

[rjrjr]

thanks Amadeus

 

great thread, so apologies if slight lateral moves

 

Last question: I note that the "Vader Down" variant has apparently just 14 copies printed. They now sell for huge amounts

 

Would it be viable for a modern print-business to actually print such low numbers?

Surely the risk of theft would become a real problem? worth more than their weight in gold after all...

 

Haven't more than 14 of these surfaced? It felt like more than 14 have been up for sale since this book has been announced.

 

I heard it was the same one 14 times...

 

 

It is possible the same book has sold multiple times already, but each time it sells, it has sold for less than the previous one.

 

That's what I thought, but look at the most recent. Shilled?

 

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=VADER%20DOWN%201%3A4999&LH_Complete=1&LH_Sold=1&rt=nc&_trksid=p2045573.m1684

 

When you consider it is $2000 more than a few of these that sold earlier this month, it is possible.

[ygogolak]

thanks Amadeus

 

great thread, so apologies if slight lateral moves

 

Last question: I note that the "Vader Down" variant has apparently just 14 copies printed. They now sell for huge amounts

 

Would it be viable for a modern print-business to actually print such low numbers?

Surely the risk of theft would become a real problem? worth more than their weight in gold after all...

 

Haven't more than 14 of these surfaced? It felt like more than 14 have been up for sale since this book has been announced.

 

I heard it was the same one 14 times...

 

 

It is possible the same book has sold multiple times already, but each time it sells, it has sold for less than the previous one.

 

That's what I thought, but look at the most recent. Shilled?

 

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=VADER%20DOWN%201%3A4999&LH_Complete=1&LH_Sold=1&rt=nc&_trksid=p2045573.m1684

 

When you consider it is $2000 more than a few of these that sold earlier this month, it is possible.

 

Sure is. Buyer only has one purchase in the last 30 days, so it's hard to say. Also, there are no other raws available right now. Maybe they just got there tax return? After all, that's "free" money.

[Jaydogrules]

That same copy has "sold " a few times....

 

Also, I have seen at least 30 unique copies on eBay. There are 19 copies on the census too. So yes, definitely more than 14 printed. It's unlikely less than one case (~200-250) were printed.

 

-J.

[ygogolak]

That same copy has "sold " a few times....

 

Also, I have seen at least 30 unique copies on eBay. There are 19 copies on the census too. So yes, definitely more than 14 printed. It's unlikely less than one case (~200-250) were printed.

 

-J.

 

One thing you don't know about the census is if any were cracked and resubbed. Only 8 9.8's.

[fastballspecial]

SW collectors though are in a category by themselves.

[Jaydogrules]

That same copy has "sold " a few times....

 

Also, I have seen at least 30 unique copies on eBay. There are 19 copies on the census too. So yes, definitely more than 14 printed. It's unlikely less than one case (~200-250) were printed.

 

-J.

 

One thing you don't know about the census is if any were cracked and resubbed. Only 8 9.8's.

 

This is true but if you look at cgcdata you can see that they've hit the census regularly. No chance for re-subs really. It is fairly obvious there are more of the book than were originally advertised , though still a long way from being "common". There's 7 unique raw copies on eBay alone right now.

 

-J.