FF #1 Found in Trash-was cgc 2.0 Now on ebay as 4.5?

[jimm94]

My comment was in regards to more general deviations between CGC and OGG criteria. And, yes, they have been discussed on the boards. If you feel that CGC has modified a policy internally that has materially changed their standards from the past, call Steve and ask him about it. Seriously. I'm not saying that to sound like a jerk.

 

I guess the argument to be made is that you shouldn't have to, but I have never known Steve to evade direct questions when it comes to their grading standards.

[Stronguy]

Anyone pick up the phone and call Harley?

[whomerjay]

 

And, no, I don't think I'm a better grader than Harley or CGC.

 

Well I for one can state unequivocally that I can grade better than Harley. And so can a lot of people on these boards. There has never been a consensus that he is a good grader, just a consensus that he is good guy. I will certainly give him the benefit of the doubt that he didn't crack that book out.

 

Let's dispell the myth that it takes decades in the business to know how to grade. Every day scientists design experiments where they establish criteria to score images and do a damn good job from the start. All you need to know are the criteria, how they are weighted, and be able to see. Does seeing and selling a lot of books count for anything? Sure. In fact, I base my grading largely on my perception of what price a book will command given its collective flaws; if it would typically sell at a VG price, it's a VG. If you think about it, this is what shapes the grading standards in the first place.

 

Your have to question more than his grading skills when he calls that book a 4.5. You have to question his overall intelligence and business sense. Harsh? I guess. But everyone knows deep down this BS really pisses most of us off. Take a look at the recent DTA thread. With this auction, Harley just lost a bunch of potential future buyers. The only explanations that are acceptable here are:

 

1) It was a typo; or

2) yeah, I don't know WTF I was thinking when I called that a 4.5

[blazingbob]

Well I for one have always questioned what CGC defines staining as? Small or large? A NM book with a dime size stain gets a 8.0 so what about a NM book with a coffee cup ring? 7.0, 6.0?

 

Structurely is the book a VG+ without the staining? I don't know, I don't have it in my hands. Or was it one of those CGC grades - I ain't touching it, you grade, no you, No you do it, screw it 2.0!

[luckystiff-migration]

THATS IT-LOLOLOLOL I can see em now-The hot potato comic-

[Crackandpresstoan11]

What happened to grading is subjective? What if Harley resubbed this book today and it graded 4.5? It's not like we have never seen that before.

 

Looks like someone cleaned the book as well.

 

Why do you think it was cleaned, Tom? It looks exactly like it did the first time.

 

I agree with your point about grading being subjective to a point, but I don't think that water staining like that (along with the multiple creases running parallel to the spine) are allowed in Overstreet standards for VG or VG+. Structurally it looks like a VG/FN or even a FN-, but the staining is a killer and it's all over the book.

 

Looks like a lot of the soiling around the F in Fantastic and around the code stamp was removed. I guess it could be a lower resolution scan on Harleys auction making the dirt "disappear"

[Crackandpresstoan11]

-- knowing that if the person gets it slabbed, it will come back a 2.0

 

How do you know it would come back a 2.0?

 

well Tom, how would YOU grade this book? (i'll ask Bob Storms the same question).

 

lot's of deep spine stress marks, major grouping of readers creases just off the spine, major waviness to much of the cover, 6 BIGA$$ DARK Waterstains split between the front and back covers, etc.. do either of you truly believe this book could be a 4.5?? (like you both seem to be implying as a possibility..........)

 

I doubt it - just playing Devil's advocate, i guess???

 

I would grade it POS. I really don't collect books under 9.0 so I really have no experience at these grades. My point was that tons of books are resubbed all the time for higher grades, jumping 2 or 3 grades sometimes. Who is to say that if CGC got this book back they wouldn't go w/ the 3.0 this time, or maybe higher?

[FFB]

What happened to grading is subjective? What if Harley resubbed this book today and it graded 4.5? It's not like we have never seen that before.

 

Looks like someone cleaned the book as well.

 

Why do you think it was cleaned, Tom? It looks exactly like it did the first time.

 

I agree with your point about grading being subjective to a point, but I don't think that water staining like that (along with the multiple creases running parallel to the spine) are allowed in Overstreet standards for VG or VG+. Structurally it looks like a VG/FN or even a FN-, but the staining is a killer and it's all over the book.

 

Looks like a lot of the soiling around the F in Fantastic and around the code stamp was removed. I guess it could be a lower resolution scan on Harleys auction making the dirt "disappear"

 

I see what you're saying now. It looks like he had it dry cleaned. Some of the stresses on the spine are less prominent too. Perhaps a press job.

[Aces]

THATS IT-LOLOLOLOL I can see em now-The hot potato comic-

 

See what you started!?

 

Why didn't you just send the garbage bag to me and I would have kept it and not resold it to anybody!

[Aces]

What happened to grading is subjective? What if Harley resubbed this book today and it graded 4.5? It's not like we have never seen that before.

 

Looks like someone cleaned the book as well.

 

Why do you think it was cleaned, Tom? It looks exactly like it did the first time.

 

I agree with your point about grading being subjective to a point, but I don't think that water staining like that (along with the multiple creases running parallel to the spine) are allowed in Overstreet standards for VG or VG+. Structurally it looks like a VG/FN or even a FN-, but the staining is a killer and it's all over the book.

 

Looks like a lot of the soiling around the F in Fantastic and around the code stamp was removed. I guess it could be a lower resolution scan on Harleys auction making the dirt "disappear"

 

I see what you're saying now. It looks like he had it dry cleaned. Some of the stresses on the spine are less prominent too. Perhaps a press job.

 

Ohhh ing great!

 

Now us low grade collectors have to worry about pressing too!!!

 

[FFB]

What happened to grading is subjective? What if Harley resubbed this book today and it graded 4.5? It's not like we have never seen that before.

 

Looks like someone cleaned the book as well.

 

Why do you think it was cleaned, Tom? It looks exactly like it did the first time.

 

I agree with your point about grading being subjective to a point, but I don't think that water staining like that (along with the multiple creases running parallel to the spine) are allowed in Overstreet standards for VG or VG+. Structurally it looks like a VG/FN or even a FN-, but the staining is a killer and it's all over the book.

 

Looks like a lot of the soiling around the F in Fantastic and around the code stamp was removed. I guess it could be a lower resolution scan on Harleys auction making the dirt "disappear"

 

I see what you're saying now. It looks like he had it dry cleaned. Some of the stresses on the spine are less prominent too. Perhaps a press job.

 

Ohhh ing great!

 

Now us low grade collectors have to worry about pressing too!!!

 

 

Most low and midgrade books are better pressing candidates than ultra high grade books. Haven't you been listening?

[Dr_Neff]

Harley Rules and it's an unregulated market. If Harley said it's a 4.5 I believe him. I don't see a slab or grader's notes to the contrary.

[Aces]

What happened to grading is subjective? What if Harley resubbed this book today and it graded 4.5? It's not like we have never seen that before.

 

Looks like someone cleaned the book as well.

 

Why do you think it was cleaned, Tom? It looks exactly like it did the first time.

 

I agree with your point about grading being subjective to a point, but I don't think that water staining like that (along with the multiple creases running parallel to the spine) are allowed in Overstreet standards for VG or VG+. Structurally it looks like a VG/FN or even a FN-, but the staining is a killer and it's all over the book.

 

Looks like a lot of the soiling around the F in Fantastic and around the code stamp was removed. I guess it could be a lower resolution scan on Harleys auction making the dirt "disappear"

 

I see what you're saying now. It looks like he had it dry cleaned. Some of the stresses on the spine are less prominent too. Perhaps a press job.

 

Ohhh ing great!

 

Now us low grade collectors have to worry about pressing too!!!

 

 

Most low and midgrade books are better pressing candidates than ultra high grade books. Haven't you been listening?

 

Generally I avoid the pressing threads.

I thought it was mostly guys trying to turn 9.0/9.2 comics into 9.4/9.6 comics to get the multiples of guide. I see that a major key going from GVG to VGF would be a nice haul as well.

[skybolt]

What happened to grading is subjective? What if Harley resubbed this book today and it graded 4.5? It's not like we have never seen that before.

 

Looks like someone cleaned the book as well.

 

Why do you think it was cleaned, Tom? It looks exactly like it did the first time.

 

I agree with your point about grading being subjective to a point, but I don't think that water staining like that (along with the multiple creases running parallel to the spine) are allowed in Overstreet standards for VG or VG+. Structurally it looks like a VG/FN or even a FN-, but the staining is a killer and it's all over the book.

 

Looks like a lot of the soiling around the F in Fantastic and around the code stamp was removed. I guess it could be a lower resolution scan on Harleys auction making the dirt "disappear"

 

I see what you're saying now. It looks like he had it dry cleaned. Some of the stresses on the spine are less prominent too. Perhaps a press job.

 

Great, so now if the book is resubmitted to CGC, it may come back as a 2.0 PLOD, due to the cover being cleaned.

 

Plus, if the book was found in a garbage bag, I can only imagine what the stains could be. What's the smell factor on that book from 1 to 10?

[Red Hook]

Plus, if the book was found in a garbage bag, I can only imagine what the stains could be. What's the smell factor on that book from 1 to 10?

 

Well, that's why CGC hired Newt, right?

[Aces]

Plus, if the book was found in a garbage bag, I can only imagine what the stains could be. What's the smell factor on that book from 1 to 10?

 

Well, that's why CGC hired Newt, right?

 

I thought greggy was the stain expert?

[FFB]

What happened to grading is subjective? What if Harley resubbed this book today and it graded 4.5? It's not like we have never seen that before.

 

Looks like someone cleaned the book as well.

 

Why do you think it was cleaned, Tom? It looks exactly like it did the first time.

 

I agree with your point about grading being subjective to a point, but I don't think that water staining like that (along with the multiple creases running parallel to the spine) are allowed in Overstreet standards for VG or VG+. Structurally it looks like a VG/FN or even a FN-, but the staining is a killer and it's all over the book.

 

Looks like a lot of the soiling around the F in Fantastic and around the code stamp was removed. I guess it could be a lower resolution scan on Harleys auction making the dirt "disappear"

 

I see what you're saying now. It looks like he had it dry cleaned. Some of the stresses on the spine are less prominent too. Perhaps a press job.

 

Great, so now if the book is resubmitted to CGC, it may come back as a 2.0 PLOD, due to the cover being cleaned.

 

Plus, if the book was found in a garbage bag, I can only imagine what the stains could be. What's the smell factor on that book from 1 to 10?

 

No, it was probably dry cleaned. Wet cleaning would have eliminated or at least reduced those big stains. CGC does not consider dry cleaning to be restoration.

[Ron_Nasty]

Looks like Subway sandwich stains to me.

[jbud73]

Harley Rules and it's an unregulated market. If Harley said it's a 4.5 I believe him. I don't see a slab or grader's notes to the contrary.

 

[FFB]

Harley Rules and it's an unregulated market. If Harley said it's a 4.5 I believe him. I don't see a slab or grader's notes to the contrary.