Okay boys and girls, we get to see how "dead" Marvel Comics 1 is

[N e r V]

I just looked at the Marvel Omnibus. It says that Goodman printed 80,000 copies of the October print and it went to east coast newsstands. Sales results were phoned in to him quickly and they were positive and he decided to do 800,000 more with a November overprint because Marvel 1 was a monthly and the indicia was modified as well.

 

I helped put together the material used (the actual comic books ) for the Marvel Omnibus and helped Cory out for several years with material in the Masterworks line.

 

I don't have a copy handy but if that information came from Cory its probably accurate since he was pretty good at his information with all things Marvel.

[cousin itt]

I ran across an article, I have no idea if it's correct, but it says that, according to Martin Goodman's brother, the November copies were printed two weeks after the October copies:

 

http://gadgets.boingboing.net/2008/01/23/rare-marvel-comics-1.html

[Sqeggs]

was curious if anyone had a perspective on how that Sub-Mariner origin relates to his first printed appearance in Motion Pictures Funnies #1 - or is the latter a bit of an outlier and the Marvel Comics #1 really is the book with the most significance in the Sub-Mariner canon?

 

 

Interesting issue that was discussed recently in this thread: http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=9356972#Post9356972

[N e r V]

similar but in a superficial way right? What this pay copy question boils down to is was there one print run, or were they spaced out. As Bedrock stated, it could be a mid print run change.

 

That beatles butcher thing is well documented and I can't believe that even came out for the short time it came out !

 

I just meant that in the sense both were still "original" editions with something added to them in their next release (Marvel with its overstamp and Beatles with its paste on).

 

The biggest difference being the paste on could be peeled off and the overstamp with Nov. added couldn't be.

[rjpb]

Whatever the story, the Oct copies are way cooler. Just sayin'.

[Primetime]

I just looked at the Marvel Omnibus. It says that Goodman printed 80,000 copies of the October print and it went to east coast newsstands. Sales results were phoned in to him quickly and they were positive and he decided to do 800,000 more with a November overprint because Marvel 1 was a monthly and the indicia was modified as well.

yep. The OCT run of 80k copies was released on 8-31-39 on the east coast, and sold out surprisingly in a week. That prompted Goodman to print another 800k copies (NOV run) and distribute nationwide. I've seen some NOV copies with 9-14 date stamps. So 880k copies and less than 60 are on the census.

[Comicdey]

I'd still like one....

 

the registration does make me a bit dizzy though

[Ameri]

OSPG notes "most Marvel 1s having printing defects..tilted pages which caused trimming into the panels usually on right side and bottom." I wish CGC would note that on their labels. The Angel story really took a hit on this copy:

 

 

 

 

 

[pemart1966]

I just looked at the Marvel Omnibus. It says that Goodman printed 80,000 copies of the October print and it went to east coast newsstands. Sales results were phoned in to him quickly and they were positive and he decided to do 800,000 more with a November overprint because Marvel 1 was a monthly and the indicia was modified as well.

yep. The OCT run of 80k copies was released on 8-31-39 on the east coast, and sold out surprisingly in a week. That prompted Goodman to print another 800k copies (NOV run) and distribute nationwide. I've seen some NOV copies with 9-14 date stamps. So 880k copies and less than 60 are on the census.

 

But he must have had 880,000 October covers printed and then overprinted 800,000 of them with the November date...

 

 

 

[AJD]

Wouldn't it be just that it was simply to overprint the Nov date instead of changing the printing plates from the October run?

[pemart1966]

Wouldn't it be just that it was simply to overprint the Nov date instead of changing the printing plates from the October run?

 

So here's what I think we have:

 

1. 80,000 copies printed with OCT and distributed only on the East coast.

 

2. 800,000 copies printed with a black dot over OCT and NOV printed above that. These were distributed nation wide.

 

So the questions are:

 

1. Were the 800,000 copies originally printed up as OCT copies and then sent back to the printers to have OCT blacked out and NOV added? OR

 

2. Were the 800,000 copies all freshly printed once the decision was made to do another run and for some reason it was easier during the printing process to leave the original OCT on the plates and have a black dot put over OCT and NOV printed above it?

 

3. Did any of the NOV copies get distributed on the East coast seeing as the East coast had already seen all 80,000 copies of the OCT version?

 

4. Anyone know if either version was sold in Canada?

[sfcityduck]

Wouldn't it be just that it was simply to overprint the Nov date instead of changing the printing plates from the October run?

 

So here's what I think we have:

 

1. 80,000 copies printed with OCT and distributed only on the East coast.

 

2. 800,000 copies printed with a black dot over OCT and NOV printed above that. These were distributed nation wide.

 

So the questions are:

 

1. Were the 800,000 copies originally printed up as OCT copies and then sent back to the printers to have OCT blacked out and NOV added? OR

 

2. Were the 800,000 copies all freshly printed once the decision was made to do another run and for some reason it was easier during the printing process to leave the original OCT on the plates and have a black dot put over OCT and NOV printed above it?

 

3. Did any of the NOV copies get distributed on the East coast seeing as the East coast had already seen all 80,000 copies of the OCT version?

 

4. Anyone know if either version was sold in Canada?

 

This issue was discussed in much much greater detail in the past. That discussion included detailed analysis and pictures of the modifications made to the indicia and cover. A very simple summary of that discussion is that Goodman was a cheapskate and the modification of the cover was accomplished in the cheapest possible fashion (technical details were, to my recollection, fleshed out by a former printer) and was not an overstrike of previously printed covers. November copies were distributed nationally. I think there were no Canadian copies of Timely's in the early period.

 

My advice: Find the old thread on this. That's also is true for the discussion of the timing of MPFW versus MC 1 and the question of whether MPFW is anything other than an undistributed prototype/ashcan.

[rjpb]

October copies are either 1st print or 1st state, and far scarcer. This should make them more desirable, and I'm guessing they do fetch a premium, but most collectors will likely be happy with any copy in their grade/price range. If I were a multi-millionaire, I'd probably try and hunt down an October copy, but if I were just barely affording to get into the pool, I doubt I'd care all that much.

 

As for MPFW, no matter how much money I had, I doubt I'd be moved to acquire the book. Maybe if I had every Timely, including the Annuals, and was just looking for something more to buy, but to me it's clearly an undistributed promotional item of some historical importance, mainly of interest to collectors of such rarities or Sub-Mariner completists. Worthy of attention, just not a book I have much interest in.

 

 

[N e r V]

The Oct. date seems to vary on over stamp copies as to how visible it is under the stamp.

 

I might not be remembering correctly but without looking I believe the "pay" copy is one you can clearly see Oct. under the stamp.

 

Not getting an October dated copy is probably my greatest regret in collecting (outside of selling off way to many keys when they were cheap) and I did have a shot at a nice copy at SDCC one year back in the 1990's.

 

I have to be satisfied today that i have both oct. and nov. copies owned by friends and family members and the copy I pointed Marvel in the direction to acquire for their 70th anniversary Omnibus was also an original oct. dated copy. Amazingly at the time I think they finally paid something like 35k (this was in 2007 or 2008) to get it so god knows what Cory had to do to get them to shell out that much cash on a single book for that volume.

[pemart1966]

"I think there were no Canadian copies of Timely's in the early period."

 

I didn't mean Canadian versions of US books, I meant whether either the OCT or more likely the NOV version was distributed in Canada.

[sfcityduck]

"I think there were no Canadian copies of Timely's in the early period."

 

I didn't mean Canadian versions of US books, I meant whether either the OCT or more likely the NOV version was distributed in Canada.

 

I have not heard of any copies being discovered in Canada. Not sure how we would know if some copies made it across the border. Later Timely's that made it to Canada were Canadian versions, right?

 

Send a PM to ECComics as he would know if US comics were even allowed into Canada at that time period (I know they were not allowed into Canada at some point in the early GA) and would have more info if it exists.

[porcupine48]

:busy:Stephen would know

[N e r V]

"In December 1940, the War Exchange Conservation Act was passed. It restricted the importation of goods from the US that were deemed non-essential to combat the trade deficit Canada had with its neighbours to the south.American comic books were casualties of the Act."

 

So prior to that it seems US comics were good to visit America's hat.

[rjpb]

The law restricting the import of US comics wasn't passed until Dec. 1940, a year after MC #1 would have been distributed.

[VintageComics]

This issue was discussed in much much greater detail in the past. That discussion included detailed analysis and pictures of the modifications made to the indicia and cover. A very simple summary of that discussion is that Goodman was a cheapskate and the modification of the cover was accomplished in the cheapest possible fashion (technical details were, to my recollection, fleshed out by a former printer) and was not an overstrike of previously printed covers. November copies were distributed nationally. I think there were no Canadian copies of Timely's in the early period.

 

I don't think we've ever verified or quantified what the interior differences (indicia, story or margin notes) are between the October and November copies. I've been trying to find out for years and have never seen proof.

 

DiceX was the person who explained how it was done as he used to work at a publisher that used to print comics and magazines. I think a round slug and a Nov stamp were added into the process somewhere along the way.

 

Whether the covers were previously printed and then run through again with the new slug, or whether they were just printed after the original 80,000 and simply added the slug somewhere in the process is still unproven at this point.

 

I'm sure Fishler has plenty he could add to the story as he posed the question years ago about interior differences between Oct and Nov copies. I don't remember the exact conversation.