Journey Into Mystery #65 - Different 10c Price Sizes ? 0

[Aman619]

again, the answers to these other price results also goes back to what Atlas had in mind when they were planning out the printing of the covers and distribution requirements for each issue... In my long post I glossed over the stripping together of the color separations to the mechanical (black line work including logos and type elements) in order to explain how the white boxes worked.

 

Color operations are a specialty and were done separately, mostly by Eastern Color. The cover colorist would water color what he wanted everything to look like, and add shorthand codes as to what he wanted the red or green etc to be made of with the 4 inks CMYK. These were fixed %s of each ink. (To keep costs down, DC and Marvel limited their palette to a few shades and mixes of inks. It wasn't until Neal Adams, with years of traditional printing experience with ad agencies NOT on such tight budgets as comics, forced Sol Harrison ay DC to open up the palette. Of course it really wasn't all that much more expensive, it was actually just cheap comics business inertia since the 30s and 40s and no one questioned it!)

 

In the examples where the 9p AND the 10c are "knocked out" in white or surprinted in black DIRECTLY ON THE ARTWORK, the printer just needed access to the 4-color ink separations/film before the type and logos were stripped together. With the "virgin" color operations film, they would apply the different mechanical (which really probably only differed in one saying 10c and the other 9P) creating 2 different sets of film at same time.

 

Or, they prepared the 9P film for England and mailed it over for printing locally

 

Or, they made a set of color separations film for England and let THEM do their own stripping and printing.

 

This would explain not only how we see 9p in art in cover bkgnds same as 10C for US editions... , but also the weird alternate 10c where both the 10 and c are different fonts. They replace the US 10C with a new types 10c same as replacing with 9p, or 23x, or 32y.

 

Im still trying to understand in what scenario or market also uses 10c that had to print their own covers or comics.

 

 

another anomaly to look into is the SHAPE of the white boxes: they do not all look the same. Thats not always an issue , unless we find different boxed shapes on the SAME comic. That would indicate that 2 different strippers worked the price box, individually.

[bc]

Fascinating thread ! As I only collect Pre-Hero Marvels, I'll get the camera fired up to add to the data set.

 

This goes thru many of the western titles as well. After reading this thread, I went to the Akron Comicon this Sunday and just thumbed thru boxes looking for the different price sizes & white boxes. There were plenty of different versions from one dealer to the next - this appears to be more isolated to a cover date timeframe from June/July 1960 to June/July 1961 when they went with the tradition large circle for the price (June-July 1961 cover dates).

 

Pics posted later!

-bc

[bc]

Some JIM pics:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

JIM69 starts the 10 cent circle :

 

 

Hope this helps,

-bc

[bc]

I think TTA16 was also mentioned:

 

 

-bc

[Aman619]

make sure to not the indices on each so we can explore patterns... the feeling so far is that the white boxed 10c have births publishing notes in addition to or instead of the US data.

 

 

 

[EwanUK]

Or, they prepared the 9P film for England and mailed it over for printing locally

 

Or, they made a set of color separations film for England and let THEM do their own stripping and printing.

 

Im still trying to understand in what scenario or market also uses 10c that had to print their own covers or comics.

 

many thanks again Aman

 

We know that pence copies were NOT printed in England, all US comics were imported as ballast from 1959 onwards. Distribution was handled by T&P, both Marvel pence copies and DC with the much-loved giant stamps. However, as discovered above, L Miller distributed at least one title too!

 

I bet those comics with the different 10c font (in a box) have amended indicia's

[EwanUK]

make sure to not the indices on each so we can explore patterns... the feeling so far is that the white boxed 10c have births publishing notes in addition to or instead of the US data.

 

 

 

this would be really helpful if you could do that

[Aman619]

make sure to not the indices on each so we can explore patterns... the feeling so far is that the white boxed 10c have births publishing notes in addition to or instead of the US data.

 

 

 

this would be really helpful if you could do that

 

births should have read "both"...

[Get Marwood & I]

I think TTA16 was also mentioned:

 

 

-bc

 

Hello BC - thanks for posting all those lovely covers! I really appreciate the effort

 

As my friends said, and assuming you own the books, it would be great if you could provide scans of the indicias, linked to each cover, so we can see whether they have the 'THORPE & PORTER' distribution line. I can then add them to my chart (see below) and we'll be able to see which font type has them:

 

 

On a separate note, I have written to CGC twice - once through the 'Ask CGC' function on these boards, and once through their website contact function. So far, no response. Let's hope they at least respond eh....

 

 

 

 

[Get Marwood & I]

Price vs Font vs Indicia Variants

 

Latest charts below. There are patterns if you look...

 

No word from CGC after 5 days

 

Tales To Astonish

 

 

 

 

 

Journey Into Mystery

 

 

 

 

 

[Eggman]

Thanks for your efforts!

[mysterio]

My JIM and TTA books all seem to correspond to examples you've already posted. Maybe these can help:

 

 

TOS #19 is first large 10 cent circle price.

 

[mysterio]

Not sure if you've checked Strange Tales or not, so here goes...

 

 

Note that the #86 has BOTH the large 10 cent circle and the smaller price.

[mysterio]

Just found these scans from an old sales thread!

 

 

Edited November 11, 2016 by mysterio

[EwanUK]

So..... before we search out (or speculate) on the answers, can I get some consensus, to summarise what the key questions are please?

My take....

 

1. Why some comics (period x to x) with cents cover prices have "T&P distribution" indicia's?

2. Why some comics (period x to x) have different cents price fonts? Or have cents prices in boxes?

3. Why (one example so far) does a cents cover price have a "L Miller distribution" indicia?

 

RE CGC, as I said earlier in the thread, with respect to them, they won't answer, because they won't know. These are new discoveries.

 

Remember too, the UK pence / foreign editions market as true variants is actually reletively young... CGC and Voldy still call them "UK Editions" but they use this term for both "pence variants" and genuine "UK Editions" (like Alan Class)

[EwanUK]

So.... part 2

 

The pattern is:

 

most, but not all, "white box cents variants" copies have T&P indicia's?

[Get Marwood & I]

Thanks Mysterio for all those lovely scans. I'll check them to see if any help the cause. Indicia scans will help, for the ungraded ones if you can

 

Ewan, I'm half way through a Strange Tales chart for the same dates. Will post that tomorrow along with my thoughts and conclusions.

[Get Marwood & I]

RE CGC, as I said earlier in the thread, with respect to them, they won't answer, because they won't know. These are new discoveries.

 

Remember too, the UK pence / foreign editions market as true variants is actually reletively young... CGC and Voldy still call them "UK Editions" but they use this term for both "pence variants" and genuine "UK Editions" (like Alan Class)

 

Yep, I get that Ewan, but CGC differentiate 9d from 10c as they are copies for different markets which is an important distinction for collectors. Any serious grading company would want all the facts to grade accurately / not mislead their buyers, surely.

 

If we can badger them enough to recognise the possibility that a 10c cover with a T&P indicia could itself be an issue targeted to a country other than the US, then we may get somewhere. I intend to keep asking them until they reply - even if it's just to say "please go away". If proven, CGC would be duty bound to recognise the variance. Sooner or later, someone will dip into this thread with an answer. I've been trying to find historic exchange rate data for 1960. No luck so far. Maybe T&P distributed for Australia too. The Web indicates that T&P had a relationship with that country. But then I find they went decimal in 1966 so weren't using dollars in 1960.

 

More thoughts tomorrow, once I've posted the Strange Tales chart.....

[Get Marwood & I]

 

Note that the #86 has BOTH the large 10 cent circle and the smaller price.

 

I spotted that yes. I'm looking for one with a 10c Circle and a 9d smaller price. That would be a thing!

[EwanUK]

Fascinating

here's the pence version