Shill Alert2....

[casey1870]

How about have "send a board member comic day"........now that seems cool. What do you think FFB

[LastStarfighter]

How about the LYING to EVERYBODY here?!?!?!?!?! That's what really bothers me the most. The outright bold-typed lie of "I did not shill my auctions" (when the truth was already becoming clear) and a very immature cry-baby act response, ending in "I'm outta here for awhile". That is what is completely out of line for a forum member like donut.

 

And dm226 should be given apologies from a bunch of people who jumped all over him with very little reason. In this scenario at least it is dm226 who is by far the "better" forumite, acting in the best interests of this community.

[Excelsior!-migration]

How about the LYING to EVERYBODY here?!?!?!?!?! That's what really bothers me the most. The outright bold-typed lie of "I did not shill my auctions" (when the truth was already becoming clear) and a very immature cry-baby act response, ending in "I'm outta here for awhile". That is what is completely out of line for a forum member like donut.

 

And dm226 should be given apologies from a bunch of people who jumped all over him with very little reason. In this scenario at least it is dm226 who is by far the "better" forumite, acting in the best interests of this community.

 

I think public apologies should be coming from those who publicly trashed him.

[Red Hook]

Stop being a DQ. Who trashed him? Please give an example.

[OldGuy]

How about the LYING to EVERYBODY here?!?!?!?!?! That's what really bothers me the most. The outright bold-typed lie of "I did not shill my auctions" (when the truth was already becoming clear) and a very immature cry-baby act response, ending in "I'm outta here for awhile". That is what is completely out of line for a forum member like donut.

 

And dm226 should be given apologies from a bunch of people who jumped all over him with very little reason. In this scenario at least it is dm226 who is by far the "better" forumite, acting in the best interests of this community.

 

I think public apologies should be coming from those who publicly trashed him.

 

What about apologies from those who make bets and don't pay up?

[bobel]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3078735/

Oct. 10, 2002 - When an online bidder with the handle of “dd9191” paid $1,825 for a nearly complete set of 1959 Topps baseball cards on eBay in July, the winner wasn’t the only one who walked away with a rare and valuable prize. The auction also provided two self-appointed detectives with conclusive evidence that the seller used a phony identity to illegally dupe the buyer into paying an extra $531 for the cards

Even though phantom bidding - identical to shill bidding, but perpetrated by an individual rather than co-conspirators — violates state and federal criminal fraud statutes and constitutes fraud under civil law, the “appropriate action” turned out to be a warning to the seller.

 

http://www.ecommercetimes.com/story/8086.html

Federal prosecutors issued an indictment on Friday against three eBay users for self-bidding on their own art

 

Why would anyone think someone committing multiple felonies needed an apology?

Shilling isn't missing restoration or disagreeing on a grade it's not at all a grey area it's criminal fraud and the perps can be prosecuted and can be sued for damages in civil court. Generally, people who have actively engaged in criminal fraud in the last yr don't meet most people's definition of "stand up guy". I think asking people who were the targets of a felony9anyone bidding on ebay) to apologize to the felon( an ebay seller engaged in criminal fraud) is ludicrous

[Norrin_Radd]

Bid shilling isn't just unethical.

 

Shilling IS fraud and it IS illegal.

 

 

"Phantom bidding - identical to shill bidding, but perpetrated by an individual rather than co-conspirators — violates state and federal criminal fraud statutes and constitutes fraud under civil law."

 

 

Using Fraudulent User Information

 

"It is illegal to make a bid using a fraudulent name. It is considered 'fraudulent use of an access device' which is a federal crime. An access device is an account number, password, ATM, pin number, computer, etc."

 

1024 Fraudulent Use of Access Devices -- 18 U.S.C. § 1029(a)(1-4)

 

Each count charging fraud in connection with an unauthorized access device carries a maximum sentence of not more than ten years, not more than $250,000.00 or both.

 

 

And lastly, eBay’s policy states that “shill bidding is considered a felony with severe consequences”.

[deathlok]

Is this thread still going on?

 

pathetic.

 

still pathetic.

[the blob]

i think there's only a crime when the non-shiller "wins" the acution at the inflated price, not when the shill "wins" the auction

 

unless there's such a crime as "attempted shilling"... i don't know if there is. indictments for shilling tend to be where there is an injured actual buyer, not potential buyer.

 

what we can't tell is whether FD's brother put an "unbeatable" bid on that auction -- $400 or whatever, so there really wasn't a chance the shill could have resulted in someone paying an inflated price. that's what one would have done if they didn't want the item to sell, realized they should have put a reserve but didn't want the appearance of having pulled an auction out of fear it would go for too little (which would result in chastisement here as well)

 

it does go to intent, which we don't know here.

 

i don't thing the "fraudulent user info" thingy above applies here ebcause PJ is a real person, that is his account, he placed the bid, etc.

 

the irony is that FD only needed to ask his neighbor, rather than his brother, to place the bid, and it may not have been a technical violation of ebay rules.

 

none of the above should be considered legal advice on my or my employer's part or constitute my opinions or the opinions of my employer. in fact, please ignore everything that has been written. it is wrong and cannot be relied on.

[FFB]

Bid shilling isn't just unethical.

 

Shilling IS fraud and it IS illegal.

 

 

"Phantom bidding - identical to shill bidding, but perpetrated by an individual rather than co-conspirators — violates state and federal criminal fraud statutes and constitutes fraud under civil law."

 

 

Using Fraudulent User Information

 

"It is illegal to make a bid using a fraudulent name. It is considered 'fraudulent use of an access device' which is a federal crime. An access device is an account number, password, ATM, pin number, computer, etc."

 

1024 Fraudulent Use of Access Devices -- 18 U.S.C. § 1029(a)(1-4)

 

Each count charging fraud in connection with an unauthorized access device carries a maximum sentence of not more than ten years, not more than $250,000.00 or both.

 

 

And lastly, eBay’s policy states that “shill bidding is considered a felony with severe consequences”.

 

 

 

 

§ 506. Criminal offenses

 

 

Release date: 2004-04-30

 

(a) Criminal Infringement.— Any person who infringes a copyright willfully either—

(1) for purposes of commercial advantage or private financial gain, or

(2) by the reproduction or distribution, including by electronic means, during any 180-day period, of 1 or more copies or phonorecords of 1 or more copyrighted works, which have a total retail value of more than $1,000,

shall be punished as provided under section 2319 of title 18, United States Code. For purposes of this subsection, evidence of reproduction or distribution of a copyrighted work, by itself, shall not be sufficient to establish willful infringement.

 

Now go look at Doug Schmell's website. Just because he may be infringing Marvel's copyrights (also a felony) doesn't mean that he is evil. That was my entire point about FD and it is getting lost in this (as Andy aptly called it) legal circle jerk.

 

So anyway, I've had enough of this thread. Let's go fight in a different thread.

[chrisco37]

 

So anyway, I've had enough of this thread. Let's go fight in a different thread.

 

"You want to fight? Fight me!" (mouth continues to move after words are said)

[bobel]

What's to fight about shilling is illegal. All the defensive excusing posts say a lot about the quality of his friends but there is no excuse for trying to seperate people from there money through fraudulent auctions. Shilling is fraud. Stop defending it and maybe the thread will die. I haven't seen people saying the guy shilling was a jerk in most posts. He was running some fraudulent auctions...period. Wasn't there an auction for Baseball tickets which was shilled up 40 bucks as well as the first auction? I thought I read that then i read gee it was just the one time.... Stop defending a guy who shills and the thread dies like the last guy that got caught. If you dont understand why people who BID on AUCTIONS online would be pissed at people who BID there OWN auctions to run the price up then lie about it you should really take a second and think about it. If you keep defending the poor [#@$%!!!]( I do feel bad for the guy it looks like he went from having a stellar rep to this ) someone will get pissed enough to spend a few hrs on his completed auctions looking for more smoke.

 

I'm more frustrated at people defending the act than the act at thisa point. I won't buy from the guy nor had I yet but please stop telling me it isnt a big deal. I worked hard enough for the money I have spent on Ebay auctions that it is a big deal to me when a Seller is willing to break the law in an attempt to drive up my bids. I don't want to hang anyone or call them names I just dont want to buy from a shiller or hear someone who shills is a straight shooter.

[Ze-man]

 

"You want to fight? Fight me!" (mouth continues to move after words are said)

 

 

My Drunken Monkey Style will cause you many troubles if you choose to fight me.

[Ze-man]

Bobel.. what is the endgame then?

 

What exactly would you have us do as a forum?

 

We all voiced our opinions ad nauseam.. everyone is pretty much firmly entrenched in our repsective camps and viewpoints.

 

What really else can be done that has not already been said?

 

Are we supposed to bring it up everyday to keep it fresh in everyones minds eye?

 

Ban outright those who the majority feels did enough wrong to warrant such banning?

 

Or are you just enjoying the legalspeak runaround that a topic such as this avails itself ?

 

 

Ze-

[Red Hook]

[Ze-man]

What about drugs?

[Red Hook]

They're dandy.

[Ze-man]

Drugs are dandy, but liquor is quicker.

[FFB]

What's to fight about shilling is illegal. All the defensive excusing posts say a lot about the quality of his friends but there is no excuse for trying to seperate people from there money through fraudulent auctions. Shilling is fraud. Stop defending it and maybe the thread will die. I haven't seen people saying the guy shilling was a jerk in most posts. He was running some fraudulent auctions...period. Wasn't there an auction for Baseball tickets which was shilled up 40 bucks as well as the first auction? I thought I read that then i read gee it was just the one time.... Stop defending a guy who shills and the thread dies like the last guy that got caught. If you dont understand why people who BID on AUCTIONS online would be pissed at people who BID there OWN auctions to run the price up then lie about it you should really take a second and think about it. If you keep defending the poor [#@$%!!!]( I do feel bad for the guy it looks like he went from having a stellar rep to this ) someone will get pissed enough to spend a few hrs on his completed auctions looking for more smoke.

 

I'm more frustrated at people defending the act than the act at thisa point. I won't buy from the guy nor had I yet but please stop telling me it isnt a big deal. I worked hard enough for the money I have spent on Ebay auctions that it is a big deal to me when a Seller is willing to break the law in an attempt to drive up my bids. I don't want to hang anyone or call them names I just dont want to buy from a shiller or hear someone who shills is a straight shooter.

 

I'm not defending shilling, you nitwit. Learn to read for chrissakes.

[Excelsior!-migration]

How about the LYING to EVERYBODY here?!?!?!?!?! That's what really bothers me the most. The outright bold-typed lie of "I did not shill my auctions" (when the truth was already becoming clear) and a very immature cry-baby act response, ending in "I'm outta here for awhile". That is what is completely out of line for a forum member like donut.

 

And dm226 should be given apologies from a bunch of people who jumped all over him with very little reason. In this scenario at least it is dm226 who is by far the "better" forumite, acting in the best interests of this community.

 

I think public apologies should be coming from those who publicly trashed him.

 

What about apologies from those who make bets and don't pay up?

 

Ummm A LOSER of a bet should have to pay up. Care to expand and give some details about what you are talking about instead of ranting aimlessly?