Mile High List 2 2

[rob_react]

To follow up on the Silver Streak #7 that was brought up, there are no Silver Streak books in the catalog pdf I got from greggy. That listing must have been added to the original spreadsheet put together here on the boards that I got from user Arty. I'll add that as an issue to research.

See, this is how it works! If people report issues, I capture them and the data improves. The problem is that so many of the issues are actually research topics. That's why I've hired people. For example I hired a young person to take the Standard Catalog of Comic Books and the list when it had incomplete publisher data to make sure there was a publisher for every title.   

Edited September 27, 2021 by rob_react

[Randall Dowling]

On 9/27/2021 at 1:02 PM, rob_react said:

To follow up on the Silver Streak #7 that was brought up, there are no Silver Streak books in the catalog pdf I got from greggy. That listing must have been added to the original spreadsheet put together here on the boards that I got from user Arty. I'll add that as an issue to research.

See, this is how it works! If people report issues, I capture them and the data improves. The problem is that so many of the issues are actually research topics. That's why I've hired people. For example I hired a young person to take the Standard Catalog of Comic Books and the list when it had incomplete publisher data to make sure there was a publisher for every title.   

I really appreciate your dedication to this.  I notice that the Church Spirits aren't on that list (because Chuck held on to them until they were auctioned by Heritage).  Would you be adding them to the list?  

[rob_react]

On 9/27/2021 at 7:16 PM, Randall Dowling said:

I really appreciate your dedication to this.  I notice that the Church Spirits aren't on that list (because Chuck held on to them until they were auctioned by Heritage).  Would you be adding them to the list?  

It's not something I have captured as an existing issue. But obviously the data is out there now so I can add it. 

[Timely]

When I went throughly the MH list a few decades ago, I identified 133 doubles. However, the caveat to that is Chuck only listed doubles if they were different grades. I know of several doubles that are not listed on the MH list twice because they are the same grade (by Chuck’s 1977 criteria). I also found 1 issue that had triples!

Edited September 28, 2021 by Timely

[tth2]

Are you sure they weren't Hawkeyes?

[lou_fine]

On 9/27/2021 at 11:02 AM, rob_react said:

To follow up on the Silver Streak #7 that was brought up, there are no Silver Streak books in the catalog pdf I got from greggy. That listing must have been added to the original spreadsheet put together here on the boards that I got from user Arty. I'll add that as an issue to research.

That's probably because you've got the same copy that everybody else here also has, as there appears to be a page missing from the catalog. 

When I checked my copy of the catalog for Silver Streak 7, it looks like the catalog takes a jump from Page 139 ending off with Sheena 14, Page 140 being an ad page for Mile High Comics, and then followed by Page 141 which starts up with Six-Gun Heroes 5.  

[Cat-Man_America]

On 9/27/2021 at 2:43 AM, lou_fine said:

Do you know something that we don't know and softly hinting that the Chinatown books might just be coming to market after the Promise books are done?  

If so, what makes you say this at this current point in time, especially since the Chinatown books first surfaced some 20+ plus years ago and we have yet to see any come to market to this day?      

Sorry, I've been away from my computer and other devices of mischief most of the day.  I didn't realize anything I'd posted was causing consternation around here.

I don't profess any special inside knowledge about when these books will come to market or if they will, but...  

I'm seeing two high grade collections with overlapping books graded in the same general time frame, both receiving pedigree status with images shared publicly.

Why would it surprise anyone if auction hounds start sniffing around, thinking about new records?  

 

 

On 9/27/2021 at 9:14 AM, rob_react said:

 

It didn't "float in" from anywhere. It's a project I worked on, off and on, over two years. It's imperfect, for sure, but it's a much more usable version that the tiny text pdf that everyone has. It's open source, so my hope was that people would submit corrections and I could update the data that way. That has rarely happened, unfortunately, so it's difficult for me to keep the data up to date myself (in the middle of all the other projects I do and having a life.)

But, please, feel free to throw shade at the work I did for free, for the hobby, including spending hundreds of dollars of my own money to hire two separate people to try to double check and format the data since it was too big a task for me to do on my own. 

It's much easier for people to snark about the project than it is to actually help. I get it. 

Here's what I wrote up initially where I explicitly say it's incomplete and needs corrections and I explicitly ask for help. I also posted about it on the boards. 

https://itsalljustcomics.com/2016/04/07/edgar-church-collection-data-released/

 

My criticism was directed at what I considered a serious reporting error on an important book which meant a lot to me when I owned it.  Silver Streak #7 is one of the few books from that collection that I strongly miss and seeing it wrongly listed just hit me hard.  It wasn't meant personally.  My initial reaction was outrage that anything could be that far off, but figured something must've gotten messed up in the transfer of data.

You have my sincere apology for the condescending reaction that appeared in my earlier comments.  The amount of effort you put in on this project deserves credit.  I had no idea this information had been recorded incorrectly when responding as I assumed that everything would've simply been copied from the original catalog and enlarged. I'd have sent the correct information to you earlier had I been aware you needed it.  

Edited September 28, 2021 by Cat-Man_America
Dog poop clean up, mea culpa & good ale!

[Cat-Man_America]

On 9/27/2021 at 9:20 PM, lou_fine said:

That's probably because you've got the same copy that everybody else here also has, as there appears to be a page missing from the catalog. 

When I checked my copy of the catalog for Silver Streak 7, it looks like the catalog takes a jump from Page 139 ending off with Sheena 14, Page 140 being an ad page for Mile High Comics, and then followed by Page 141 which starts up with Six-Gun Heroes 5.  

You have no idea how much I paid Alan Light to have that catalog page removed from Chuck's insert tabloid prior to publication just so that I could beat everyone else to that book!  

[lou_fine]

On 9/27/2021 at 4:28 AM, Timely said:

On 9/26/2021 at 9:06 PM, lou_fine said:

Actually, based upon the books that's present in the Promise Collection that we've seen so far, the pedigree that comes to my mind is that the Promise Collection is really more of a super high end (i.e. condition wise) Davis Crippen pedigree from my own personal point of view.  

Based on condition and years, the Promise Collection resembles the Big Apple Collection more than any other pedigree. Big Apple books pre 1943-1944 are unspectacular and lower grade, just like the Promise. Then in 1943-1944 they become quite amazing. Big Apple book as also generally have White and OW/W pages. They are also coded as well.

Greatly appreciate your response here and I certainly stand corrected as you would clearly be one of the best persons here to provide us with a much more accurate pedigree comparison for the Promise Collection of books. 

So, I guess it would have been much more accurate if the boys from Heritage had mentioned the Big Apple pedigree when they were talking about the Promise Collection, instead of alluding to the Edgar Church Collection in the same sentence.  Then again, I guess we all know the reason for that as the hype machine works a lot better in overdrive with the Church Collection spinning around in collectors and potential bidder's minds, as opposed to the hype machine looking for a jump start if the Big Apple is in their mind and they are then simply trying to figure out what the Overstreet condition guide valuations are.  

[lou_fine]

On 9/25/2021 at 12:48 PM, Cat-Man_America said:

6. Only game in town? At the moment, maybe, but are you forgetting about the Chinatown Collection? That's a very new pedigree and ...subjectively speaking... from what I've seen the now under-graded copies look a lot better than some of the super-high grade Promise books.

 

On 9/27/2021 at 8:01 PM, Cat-Man_America said:

I'm seeing two high grade collections with overlapping books graded in the same general time frame, both receiving pedigree status with images shared publicly.

Hey Cat;

Seems to be a bit of disconnect here since although the Promise Collection is indeed a brand new pedigree that has surfaced only recently, the Chinatown books surfaced just before CGC first opened their doors and hence, have been around for more than 20 plus years.  

In fact, the Chinatown Collection was even offered official CGC pedigree status by Borock back just after CGC first started up as it was thought the unveiling of a brand new GA pedigree would be a good jump start to help promote and get CGC out of the starting blocks and up to speed sooner rather then later.  Looking backwards now, the offer should have been taken at the time, but was not due probably to the exorbitant cost for grading and slabbing considering that there were no plans to sell the books at the time.  

It should also be pointed out that although the Chinatown Collection did not end up receiving official CGC pedigree designation status until August of 2020, it had already been slated as one of the "pedigrees" to be included as part of the still to be published Pedigree Book way back in 2007 when West and Ritter were still working on the book at the time.  Clearly different from the Promise Collection books which were graded starting earlier this year going forward and given official CGC pedigree status at the same time.  

[Cat-Man_America]

On 9/28/2021 at 1:41 AM, lou_fine said:

 

Hey Cat;

Seems to be a bit of disconnect here since although the Promise Collection is indeed a brand new pedigree that has surfaced only recently, the Chinatown books surfaced just before CGC first opened their doors and hence, have been around for more than 20 plus years.  

In fact, the Chinatown Collection was even offered official CGC pedigree status by Borock back just after CGC first started up as it was thought the unveiling of a brand new GA pedigree would be a good jump start to help promote and get CGC out of the starting blocks and up to speed sooner rather then later.  Looking backwards now, the offer should have been taken at the time, but was not due probably to the exorbitant cost for grading and slabbing considering that there were no plans to sell the books at the time.  

It should also be pointed out that although the Chinatown Collection did not end up receiving official CGC pedigree designation status until August of 2020, it had already been slated as one of the "pedigrees" to be included as part of the still to be published Pedigree Book way back in 2007 when West and Ritter were still working on the book at the time.  Clearly different from the Promise Collection books which were graded starting earlier this year going forward and given official CGC pedigree status at the same time.  

Not a disconnect, but in retrospect I can see why it might look that way.  

My reference point for serious marketing of books ...serious being a high grade collection potentially going to auction... is when books are graded.  Subjectively speaking, in this context meaning from an official standpoint, the Chinatown pedigree is essentially a new pedigree.  Even if the collection was dubbed pedigree-worthy 50 years ago, until graded it wouldn't be offered in the marketplace. That doesn't necessarily mean this collection will go to auction on any specific time frame, strategy or agenda, but with grading that likelihood has increased.  That's essentially my point.  Seeing these books graded and shown in pedigreed slabs/labels is just an indicator, but historically it has been a very good one and the timing is interesting.

[rob_react]

On 9/27/2021 at 10:20 PM, lou_fine said:

That's probably because you've got the same copy that everybody else here also has, as there appears to be a page missing from the catalog. 

When I checked my copy of the catalog for Silver Streak 7, it looks like the catalog takes a jump from Page 139 ending off with Sheena 14, Page 140 being an ad page for Mile High Comics, and then followed by Page 141 which starts up with Six-Gun Heroes 5.  

Yeah, there's a clear gap. I don't know where the fill-in data came from though. I'd love to get those fixed. 

[rob_react]

On 9/27/2021 at 11:01 PM, Cat-Man_America said:

Sorry, I've been away from my computer and other devices of mischief most of the day.  I didn't realize anything I'd posted was causing consternation around here.

I don't profess any special inside knowledge about when these books will come to market or if they will, but...  

I'm seeing two high grade collections with overlapping books graded in the same general time frame, both receiving pedigree status with images shared publicly.

Why would it surprise anyone if auction hounds start sniffing around, thinking about new records?  

 

 

My criticism was directed at what I considered a serious reporting error on an important book which meant a lot to me when I owned it.  Silver Streak #7 is one of the few books from that collection that I strongly miss and seeing it wrongly listed just hit me hard.  It wasn't meant personally.  My initial reaction was outrage that anything could be that far off, but figured something must've gotten messed up in the transfer of data.

You have my sincere apology for the condescending reaction that appeared in my earlier comments.  The amount of effort you put in on this project deserves credit.  I had no idea this information had been recorded incorrectly when responding as I assumed that everything would've simply been copied from the original catalog and enlarged. I'd have sent the correct information to you earlier had I been aware you needed it.  

No worries. And, as I mentioned later, this is how it works so thanks for alerting me to the error there. I didn't know those were off, so it's good to know that there's an issue there. I'll have to double check everything on that missing page, since I don't actually know where the fill-in data came in. 

[lou_fine]

On 9/27/2021 at 10:03 AM, rob_react said:

Vancouver was such a funny pedigree. Amazing books, but it was like the original owner was actively trying to avoid buying anything that would end up being valuable. 

Have you ever given any consideration to the possibility that the OO might actually be a lot smarter than we give him credit for and only turf out the less valuable books from the collection, while still holding onto all of the big demand high value books, even to this day.  

I know that most sellers need to feel that they need to let the best books go in order to promote the rest of the collection, but being a long-time collector, I would dispose of my "worthless crapola" first and leave my most valuable in demand books for the end.  

Then again, I guess the marketing and sale of a pedigree is a completely different animal as compared to the sale of a personal collection. 

[rob_react]

On 9/29/2021 at 11:20 AM, lou_fine said:

Have you ever given any consideration to the possibility that the OO might actually be a lot smarter than we give him credit for and only turf out the less valuable books from the collection, while still holding onto all of the big demand high value books, even to this day.  

I know that most sellers need to feel that they need to let the best books go in order to promote the rest of the collection, but being a long-time collector, I would dispose of my "worthless crapola" first and leave my most valuable in demand books for the end.  

Then again, I guess the marketing and sale of a pedigree is a completely different animal as compared to the sale of a personal collection. 

If there are more books, and they are keys, I think this would actually have quite a big marketing pop right now. I would love that to be true. 

[clarkkentdds]

A little off topic, but I thought this was the best discussion to include this...

It is rumored that DA once said he is not selling unless it was for a "life changing amount of money".

Given the prices that his MH books would now command, I think we are at that level... Any chance we see DA's truly good stuff coming to market?

 

[rob_react]

On 9/29/2021 at 7:07 PM, clarkkentdds said:

A little off topic, but I thought this was the best discussion to include this...

It is rumored that DA once said he is not selling unless it was for a "life changing amount of money".

Given the prices that his MH books would now command, I think we are at that level... Any chance we see DA's truly good stuff coming to market?

 

I recently went through the smallest, tiniest, part of this exercise when I was comparing different chunks of the Church collections versus the Promise books as a whole and... without going beyond the just the Actions it's a pretty big number (to me at least.)  It all depends on how you define life-changing of course. $5,000 would be life-changing for some people. $50,000 for others. What's life-changing here? $50,000,000? $100,000,000? We're not seeing these books for sale. 

Edited September 30, 2021 by rob_react

[Crowzilla]

On 9/29/2021 at 7:07 PM, clarkkentdds said:

A little off topic, but I thought this was the best discussion to include this...

It is rumored that DA once said he is not selling unless it was for a "life changing amount of money".

Given the prices that his MH books would now command, I think we are at that level... Any chance we see DA's truly good stuff coming to market?

 

In 2016, The Dentist purchased Batmobile #1 from Rick Champagne who had paid $4.62 million for it in 2013. So what exactly would be "life-changing money" for him?

[Aman619]

lets put it this way.  Todays prices wouldn't get the books 20 years ago. So now that they are worth todays prices, the ask is still 10x todays prices, same as before.  No reason to sell..

[sfcityduck]

And there is DA's son (who I highly rate as a very responsive and professional seller) lurking in the wings.  So why think that the urge to sell would overwhelm the urge to pass the collection down to his kid?