Mile High List 2 2

[batman_fan]

On 9/29/2021 at 11:28 PM, sfcityduck said:

And there is DA's son (who I highly rate as a very responsive and professional seller) lurking in the wings.  So why think that the urge to sell would overwhelm the urge to pass the collection down to his kid?

 

 

I am assuming DA and his family are not surviving on canned beans and baloney so selling his collection is not necessary. If I were him and it was my collection I would 100% pass it along to my kids. Heck I wish my son was interested in my stuff but sadly zero interest despite growing up around the stuff and going to multiple shows. 

[clarkkentdds]

I think a lot of people have created the theory that he will pass the collection on to one or more heir... That idea gets complicated if we are talking $50M/100M+.

The temptation to sell at that level is mighty high as another generation and possibly multiple heirs gets in the mix. Just my two cents.

[rob_react]

On 9/30/2021 at 11:52 AM, clarkkentdds said:

I think a lot of people have created the theory that he will pass the collection on to one or more heir... That idea gets complicated if we are talking $50M/100M+.

The temptation to sell at that level is mighty high as another generation and possibly multiple heirs gets in the mix. Just my two cents.

That's true. That's a topic when you look at land conservation deals. The parents might be really into donating the land or selling it at a discount to have it be protected. The kids might be thinking they'll sell to the highest bidder as soon as they are able. 

[jimbo_7071]

On 9/30/2021 at 10:14 AM, batman_fan said:

I am assuming DA and his family are not surviving on canned beans and baloney so selling his collection is not necessary. If I were him and it was my collection I would 100% pass it along to my kids. Heck I wish my son was interested in my stuff but sadly zero interest despite growing up around the stuff and going to multiple shows. 

Growing up around it is never enough. Comic books don't play the same role for today's kids that they did for kids from the 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s, and 80s. Nothing lasts forever. Comic books had their day in the sun.

[batman_fan]

On 9/30/2021 at 12:53 PM, jimbo_7071 said:

Growing up around it is never enough. Comic books don't play the same role for today's kids that they did for kids from the 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s, and 80s. Nothing lasts forever. Comic books had their day in the sun.

When my son was young he loved going to the shows and getting stuff.  He gravitated more to the toys, especially legos and later transitioned to the various swords and light sabers but once he discovers stuff like the game boy, it was over, zero interest in that other stuff.  Now he openly says he will sell it all when I die but he will have stiff competition with my wife.

[lou_fine]

On 9/29/2021 at 10:28 PM, sfcityduck said:

And there is DA's son (who I highly rate as a very responsive and professional seller) lurking in the wings.  So why think that the urge to sell would overwhelm the urge to pass the collection down to his kid?

 

Yes, as @Aman619 had already clearly stated in a post on another thread here, selling now as opposed to passing it down to your collector son would simply mean having to pay millions in taxes to the government:

On 9/26/2021 at 12:39 AM, Aman619 said:

You should only sell if you need spending money.  With the estate tax deduction at 11 million… and even if it goes down to 6M soon, so long as your estate isn’t larger than the deduction (times two if you are married).  you pay zero estate tax AND your heirs get a step up in value. That means if your collection is worth 300K and your cost is 100K, the cost basis steps up to the market value of 300K for your heirs. So when THEY sell them, their capital gains tax will only be applied to any increase in value above 300K.  if YOU sell them you pay capital gains rax of 28% plus an extra 3.8% surcharge on you gains, in this case 200K, or 63K.  That’s a big hit to your heirs. And you!

I highly doubt any rational person would want to do this when there's this humongous tax loophole (i.e. over $23M per married couple) available to the wealthy to pass a good portion of their wealth down to their children totally tax-free, especially with the step-up clause that they now currently have in place.    

[jimbo_7071]

On 9/30/2021 at 4:52 PM, lou_fine said:

Yes, as @Aman619 had already clearly stated in a post on another thread here, selling now as opposed to passing it down to your collector son would simply mean having to pay millions in taxes to the government:

I highly doubt any rational person would want to do this when there's this humongous tax loophole (i.e. over $23M per married couple) available to the wealthy to pass a good portion of their wealth down to their children totally tax-free, especially with the step-up clause that they now currently have in place.    

I wouldn't count on that loophole being around forever.

[lou_fine]

On 9/30/2021 at 1:55 PM, jimbo_7071 said:

I wouldn't count on that loophole being around forever.

Well, since I believe that loophole has always been around (albeit at something like half the currrent dollar amount), Although I can't see it being eliminated without a lot of protest from the general public, I can certainly see it being reduced back down by half without too much problem at all.  

Not sure if we are supposed to be talking about taxes here or not, but since we talk about state taxes for auction wins, maybe it's alright.  

[batman_fan]

On 9/30/2021 at 3:05 PM, lou_fine said:

Well, since I believe that loophole has always been around (albeit at something like half the currrent dollar amount), Although I can't see it being eliminated without a lot of protest from the general public, I can certainly see it being reduced back down by half without too much problem at all.  

Not sure if we are supposed to be talking about taxes here or not, but since we talk about state taxes for auction wins, maybe it's alright.  

The rest of us are standing back to see if you get your pee pee whacked, and not in a good way 

[Aman619]

it may shrink soon, but probably come back at some point... Whats clever about the estate tax deduction is that everyone below it never pays Federal estate taxes.  Thats what most people agree with, since your estate is comprised of "after taxed' assets.  Meaning if you sell 100K in stocks, you pay capital gains tax on your gain. Or if you saved all of your net income after taxes each year.  If that remaining" after tax" cash remains in your estate at the surviving spouses death (or yours if unmarried), it gets taxed again, this time at 40%.  so the IRS's high deductible results in 98% of us not owing any estate taxes, and just the very rich facing dilemmas on how to avoid as much as they legally can.  I think thats fairer than everybody facing (double) estate taxation.  

[tth2]

On 10/1/2021 at 4:52 AM, lou_fine said:

On 9/26/2021 at 3:39 PM, Aman619 said:

You should only sell if you need spending money.  With the estate tax deduction at 11 million… and even if it goes down to 6M soon, so long as your estate isn’t larger than the deduction (times two if you are married).  you pay zero estate tax AND your heirs get a step up in value. That means if your collection is worth 300K and your cost is 100K, the cost basis steps up to the market value of 300K for your heirs. So when THEY sell them, their capital gains tax will only be applied to any increase in value above 300K.  if YOU sell them you pay capital gains rax of 28% plus an extra 3.8% surcharge on you gains, in this case 200K, or 63K.  That’s a big hit to your heirs. And you!

Expand  

I highly doubt any rational person would want to do this when there's this humongous tax loophole (i.e. over $23M per married couple) available to the wealthy to pass a good portion of their wealth down to their children totally tax-free, especially with the step-up clause that they now currently have in place.    

If the IRS do their due diligence on the value of the Dentist's collection by coming on to these Boards, they'll probably conclude that the Church Action 1 by itself will singlehandedly eat up the estate tax deduction. 

But his total asset wealth is on a different level from normal folks , so I'm sure that he's got good tax advisors and estate planners helping him and his family to set up as tax efficient a structure as possible.

[Randall Dowling]

On 9/30/2021 at 9:16 PM, tth2 said:

If the IRS do their due diligence on the value of the Dentist's collection by coming on to these Boards, they'll probably conclude that the Church Action 1 by itself will singlehandedly eat up the estate tax deduction. 

But his total asset wealth is on a different level from normal folks , so I'm sure that he's got good tax advisors and estate planners helping him and his family to set up as tax efficient a structure as possible.

I was just thinking that this looks like a good application for setting up a trust as a lot of expensive real estate is handled like that.  But I'm by no means an expert on estate planning.

[lou_fine]

On 9/30/2021 at 2:06 PM, batman_fan said:

The rest of us are standing back to see if you get your pee pee whacked, and not in a good way 

Oh, come on now.............we are talking taxes and not something controversial like toilet paper when I got sent to the CGC sin bin for last time.