Slab Damage

[Sqeggs]

Can't it just be sent in and reholdered ? Keep the same grade ?

 

The point of that would be?

 

OP was asking if it would affect grade ... not if it just gets reholdered..

 

I think when they reholder, they look over the book to see if the grade still seems accurate. If this book suffers from SCS damage, I don't think they would reholder it with the same grade.

[Paddy_McShillihan]

Can't it just be sent in and reholdered ? Keep the same grade ?

 

The point of that would be?

 

OP was asking if it would affect grade ... not if it just gets reholdered..

 

I think when they reholder, they look over the book to see if the grade still seems accurate. If this book suffers from SCS damage, I don't think they would reholder it with the same grade.

 

Didn't know that .. ..thought once it's graded it keeps its grade ... so if reholdered some 9.8s for new slab I could get 9.6s back ?

[Sqeggs]

Can't it just be sent in and reholdered ? Keep the same grade ?

 

The point of that would be?

 

OP was asking if it would affect grade ... not if it just gets reholdered..

 

I think when they reholder, they look over the book to see if the grade still seems accurate. If this book suffers from SCS damage, I don't think they would reholder it with the same grade.

 

Didn't know that .. ..thought once it's graded it keeps its grade ... so if reholdered some 9.8s for new slab I could get 9.6s back ?

 

My understanding is that they don't do a full regrade. They're just looking for any signs that the book may have been damaged (or deteriorated -- think of that IH 181 with the staple that had major rust damage from being stored in a safe) in the slab. In other words, I think the book gets a quick once over. So, your 9.8s are likely to remain 9.8s.

[Bomber-Bob]

Until recently, the main reason to submit for reholder was the slab was cracked or damaged. I believe if the slab is damaged enough, especially if a post is broken, CGC will require a regrade. If the slab looks good, you are correct, it will just get a quick look over. Personally, unless I have a floating cookie crumb or hair in the inner well, I'm not risking a reholder. For me, encapsulation is the scariest moment in the whole process and I have experienced fresh damage on a reholder.

[Paddy_McShillihan]

Makes me think twice about reholdering ...

[comicquant]

I think when they reholder, they look over the book to see if the grade still seems accurate. If this book suffers from SCS damage, I don't think they would reholder it with the same grade.

 

Are you sure about this? I'm pretty sure once a grade is assigned and they are sure the holder being replaced hasn't been tampered with, the grade stays the same during a reholder. Even in extreme cases. If they did have the ability to change the grade during a reholder it would solidify the idea of subjectivity. At least, this was my understanding of the reholder process, however I couldn't find an answer on CGC's site so I may be wrong. I've recently submitted a couple of old label's for reholdering and if that is true then it was risky on my part due to the new standard. I just got back a couple dozen books and it seems 8.5 is the new 9.2.

 

[Bomber-Bob]

The case and comic will be inspected for damage, but the book will not be reconsidered for grading unless damage has occurred. (for example, if the book is dropped and the case shatters in one corner it is possible that the corner of the book could have suffered damage, so that is what is checked for) If this is the case we would contact you.

[comicquant]

Thanks for finding the answer bb! I have half dozen books I want to get reholdered and I definitely wasn't going to risk a regrade if it were possible.

[Sqeggs]

Thanks for finding the answer bb! I have half dozen books I want to get reholdered and I definitely wasn't going to risk a regrade if it were possible.

 

I would think obvious SCS -- the point of this thread -- would lead to a regrade, but I'm not certain.

[Sqeggs]

If they did have the ability to change the grade during a reholder it would solidify the idea of subjectivity.

 

Not sure I follow. Wouldn't you want them to have a policy of regrading books that have suffered damage in the slab? Doesn't that make their grading more consistent rather than less consistent?

[comicquant]

If they did have the ability to change the grade during a reholder it would solidify the idea of subjectivity.

 

Not sure I follow. Wouldn't you want them to have a policy of regrading books that have suffered damage in the slab? Doesn't that make their grading more consistent rather than less consistent?

 

It definitely makes sense for a notably damaged book.

[Dr. Love]

I just got back a couple dozen books and it seems 8.5 is the new 9.2.

 

This is valuable input. So you're saying they're relatively tight? Could you possibly get into more detail?

[namisgr]

 

If the scan of the book you are showing is listed for sale somewhere, how is the potential buyer going to know this ? I believe you but, as a buyer, I would still avoid the book. I guess Comiclink has the right idea for front scan only ! HaHA .

 

Look at the bright side. When you can spot the difference between SCS and scanner artifacts, you have the chance to scoop up books that get overlooked by those who can't.

 

There's more than a few scanner artifact books out there, and not just from my scanner. Here it is on a high grade Strange Tales #107.

 

 

An on a near mint FF #28:

 

 

And the same FF #28 (it's a pedigree copy) from a photograph:

 

 

 

I'm curious if the OP has the book in hand, and so can tell us whether his/her example is SCS for sure or might be a scanner artifact. It's even-ness across the entire edge and the perfect way it shadows the inner well suggests to me it might be the latter.

[comicquant]

I just got back a couple dozen books and it seems 8.5 is the new 9.2.

 

This is valuable input. So you're saying they're relatively tight? Could you possibly get into more detail?

 

Yes, in my opinion they are at least a bump and in some cases two tighter. This seems to have started in September/October. I'm seeing a lot of "really nice copy for a 9.x" or "was surprised this came back only a 9.x". Some will scream "conjecture" but I'm definitely not the only one to have noticed. It will be interesting to see the affects. Hopefully CGC has thought this through as the consequences, good and bad, are many. My opinion is that it's a good move(especially for CGC) but they will have to stick with this standard for the long haul or it won't work.

[Bomber-Bob]

I just got back a couple dozen books and it seems 8.5 is the new 9.2.

 

This is valuable input. So you're saying they're relatively tight? Could you possibly get into more detail?

 

Yes, in my opinion they are at least a bump and in some cases two tighter. This seems to have started in September/October. I'm seeing a lot of "really nice copy for a 9.x" or "was surprised this came back only a 9.x". Some will scream "conjecture" but I'm definitely not the only one to have noticed. It will be interesting to see the affects. Hopefully CGC has thought this through as the consequences, good and bad, are many. My opinion is that it's a good move(especially for CGC) but they will have to stick with this standard for the long haul or it won't work.

 

Just to clarify your original comment or maybe I have it backwards, If 8.5 is the new 9.2, doesn't this say they are loose. Doesn't your statement say what used to be an 8.5, would now grade 9.2 . I now know you meant the opposite. Again, maybe I have it backward ?

[comicquant]

I just got back a couple dozen books and it seems 8.5 is the new 9.2.

 

This is valuable input. So you're saying they're relatively tight? Could you possibly get into more detail?

 

Yes, in my opinion they are at least a bump and in some cases two tighter. This seems to have started in September/October. I'm seeing a lot of "really nice copy for a 9.x" or "was surprised this came back only a 9.x". Some will scream "conjecture" but I'm definitely not the only one to have noticed. It will be interesting to see the affects. Hopefully CGC has thought this through as the consequences, good and bad, are many. My opinion is that it's a good move(especially for CGC) but they will have to stick with this standard for the long haul or it won't work.

 

Just to clarify your original comment or maybe I have it backwards, If 8.5 is the new 9.2, doesn't this say they are loose. Doesn't your statement say what used to be an 8.5, would now grade 9.2 . I now know you meant the opposite. Again, maybe I have it backward ?

 

Bob, I was saying an 8.5 looks like a 9.2 so I think what I was saying is correct. To be clear I'm saying they are tighter.

 

[blackterror]

Respectfully Comicquant ...To be clear I'm saying they are tighter.

 

I understand exactly what Bob is saying and was confused by what you were saying.

 

If grading is tighter than it used to be ...

 

it would be much clearer to say

 

Today's 8.5 is yesterday's 9.2

 

or something like that ... meaning the book that used to get a 9.2 now only gets an 8.5.

 

Your statement is confusing.

 

"I just got back a couple dozen books and it seems 8.5 is the new 9.2"

 

It seems like you are saying the book that used to get an 8.5 will now today get a 9.2.

 

What was perfectly clear was your assertion that they are grading tighter than they used to ... and if that is the case then today's 8.5 is yesterday's 9.2.

 

Finally ... what I think you personally meant ... is that CGC's new standard for a high grade 9.2 copy is now going to get an 8.5.

 

And if that is the case it brings me to this ...

 

Todays's 9.0 is the old 9.4 which means

today's 9.2 was the old 9.6 which means

today's 9.4 was the old 9.8 which means

today's 9.6 was the old 10.0 which means

today's 9.8 was the old 10.2 (SMILE)

 

since no books got 10.2 - something is fishy in the logic here?

 

And let's reverse the thinking ... since no books bronze and older got above 9.8 anyway ... that means now no books should get a grade above 9.4

 

So is your assertion that no books now get grades above 9.4 becasue that would be equivalent to the old 9.8 and any book now graded above 9.4 would have been getting 9.8, 10.0, 10.2 and 10.4?

 

Personally ... I remember when CGC first started grading and you couldn't find any bronze silver gold books to speak of on ebay ... at 9.6 or above ... you could find plenty of books 9.4 and below on ebay in the early days, but not above ... CGC was very tight in the beginning ... and then a few years later EBAY had books aplenty in 9.6 and above.

 

I remember searching CGC 9.6 and like three books would come up on all of ebay ... and then searching 9.2 and there were hundreds of books ... of course pressing and what not may have something to do with this, but I don't know.

 

All I know was in the first couple of years ... 9.6 was scarce as hen's teeth .... and 9.8's were just not available ...

 

Let me close with this ... perhaps the best silver age collection of all is the Pacific Coast pedigree ... in the beginning those books selling on ebay and what not were 9.2', 9.4's and 9.6's ... they are still out there like that, but with regrading and reslabbing they are moving up to the 9.6 and 9.8 class ... but my point is if the best arguably of all time originally graded 9.2 through 9.6 for the most part ... grading loosened up to let floods of other books get 9.8's. Generally the originally Pacific Coast copy grades should in general be the high point ... when they begin to become 3rd 4th or 10th best copy and not the best then something is out of kilter.

 

Loose tight ... loose tight ... when Overstreet dropped the 9.4 grade the point was that books in that grade were practically non-existant ... so few that to even list price in that grade was practically a moot point ... at present a quick ebay search of CGC 9.4 would say there actually pretty common and overstreet should bring the grade back in guide ... or maybe CGC got to giving out candy grades ... and in that regard it's good that they have tightened up. 9.4 should be scarce as hen's teethbut an ebay search shows 12,282 available .. .9.6 should be like finding a four leaf clover, but it's not with an ebay search showing 21,268 available ... and 9.8 should be like finding a unicorn or a leprachaun's gold ... but search it on ebay and CGC 9.8's are common with 40,307 results.

 

Now I realize that most of the 9.8's are modern drek, but that's all the more reason to stay away from it ... is how truly common it is.

 

Well anyway just some rambling thoughts ...

 

 

 

 

 

[Bomber-Bob]

Thanks for validating my literal interpretation of '8.5 is the new 9.2'. While I understood what he meant, I thought, analytically speaking, it was backwards. I started hearing this phrase, usually in reference to age, along the lines of 40 is the new 30. With that in mind,

'9.2 is the new 8.5' . It's all good.

[comicquant]

Whew, that's a very literal interpretation of "at least 1 to 2 bumps"... My understanding of "x is the new y" is the same as "what is x was once y". If 8.5 and 9.2 respectively don't fit that statement then I stand corrected!

[blackterror]

Furuther thoughts ...In the early years of CGC ,,, you could not have collected CGC 9.8's pre-1975 because no pre-1975 books got that grade because CGC just didn't give the grade enough. If you collected CGC 9.8's it basically meant you didn't collect. I remember when the old CBG newspaper made a big deal out of the Thor 1968 copy getting the first ever 10.0 as the oldest graded book to get one ... and in fact very few pre 1970 books had ever gotten above a 9.6 at the time.

 

I mean if the Pacific Coast copies didn't get 9.8's in the early days ... 'nuff said.

 

Now collectors attempt to put together 9.8 collections because CGC has made it possible they have loosened their grading over the years to make it possible ... auctions used to have perfect runs of books and the high point books were 9.6.

 

But in time, with looser grading probably so they could make more money .... the grading loosened which meant all the pedigree type Pacific Coast copies and Mass copies etc ... are now sitting in slabs with 9.2 and 9.4 grades ... while auctions are rolling out new collections like the Savannah and Rocky Mount and Mound City etc pedigree or whatever and they are nice books ... but inferior books when compared to the Pacific Coast and Mass copies etc ... but the newly found book now had the same or higher grades ... so back those books go to get the new higher grades.

 

Economically from CGC's perspective grade loosening surely generates business (in the short term) ... to fuel the reslab process ... so we see books go from 9.2 to 9.4 to 9.6 to 9.8 ... but I think it kills business in the long term because their grading is not trustworthy.

 

Now does CGC loosen again and create a 9.9 market or ...

 

Does CGC get real and start grading like they did in the beginning.

 

If you are right comicquaint then it sounds like CGC is trying to get real and tightening up...

 

Last thought everybody knows old slab books always get a paper quality bump ... because they were tougher then. And for me that means better and had they stuck with it ... more trustworthy.