Marvel Mystery Canadian 128 Page Giant 1 1

[Bronty]

39 minutes ago, pemart1966 said:

Here's the link to the Vancouver Witness #1 https://comics.ha.com/itm/golden-age-1938-1955-/witness-1-vancouver-pedigree-marvel-1948-cgc-nm-94-white-pages/a/830-91202.s?ic4=GalleryView-ShortDescription-071515

Vancouver is within spitting distance to the US border so it could be possible that a trip to the US or visiting relatives there might have accounted for it being (I assume) the US version...

delete

Edited February 26, 2017 by Bronty

[Bronty]

I checked out the list of Vancouvers sold on HA, and you're right.   He must have had some US source.   There were WECA period US books in the collection.

Edited February 26, 2017 by Bronty

[Ameri]

ok, I've been reading up on the WECA era. When did the WECA ban end for US books? After WW2 which would have been September 1945? If the date stamp on the Comiclink copy is June 1945, that would blow the theory that the book was for sale in Canada at all. If the date stamp says 1946, that would be another story. Overstreet has always noted the annuals are from 1943-1944. Until we get the date stamp year identified, a 1943-1944 book would have to have been sold in the US, correct? "Entire contents copyrighted in US and Canada" by a firm in NYC sounds confusing. Does that mean the book could have been manufactured in Canada? Goodman used test areas in New York and Connecticut to measure sales of books. The annuals could have been tested in upstate New York near the Canadian border. After all, his operations were based in the state of New York.   

[aardvark88]

2 hours ago, Bronty said:

I checked out the list of Vancouvers sold on HA, and you're right.   He must have had some US source.   There were WECA period US books in the collection.

I thought the Vancouver pedigree GA originally came from an estate in Kelowna, BC which is roughly a 4 hour drive north of the USA border? The 1st larger bundle of raw pre-deemed Vancouver pedigree GA were offered to Geppi by a vendor on Commercial Drive near Broadway, East Vancouver. The 2nd much smaller bundle of mainly hi-grade Classics Illustrated 1st editions were sold raw by Able Auctions to Big Pete and Bob K who subsequently sent them to Cgc (who declared them as freshly discovered GA comics added to  the Vancouver pedigree list)and then sold via HA.com.

[pemart1966]

15 minutes ago, aardvark88 said:

I thought the Vancouver pedigree GA originally came from an estate in Kelowna, BC which is roughly a 4 hour drive north of the USA border? The 1st larger bundle of raw pre-deemed Vancouver pedigree GA were offered to Geppi by a vendor on Commercial Drive near Broadway, East Vancouver. The 2nd much smaller bundle of mainly hi-grade Classics Illustrated 1st editions were sold raw by Able Auctions to Big Pete and Bob K who subsequently sent them to Cgc (who declared them as freshly discovered GA comics added to  the Vancouver pedigree list)and then sold via HA.com.

Hi again - don't know if you saw my post on the last page but would you mind asking clink for a high def jpeg of the cover so that we can (hopefully) pin down this date once and for all?  Tx!

[pemart1966]

2 hours ago, Ameri said:

ok, I've been reading up on the WECA era. When did the WECA ban end for US books? After WW2 which would have been September 1945? If the date stamp on the Comiclink copy is June 1945, that would blow the theory that the book was for sale in Canada at all. If the date stamp says 1946, that would be another story. Overstreet has always noted the annuals are from 1943-1944. Until we get the date stamp year identified, a 1943-1944 book would have to have been sold in the US, correct? "Entire contents copyrighted in US and Canada" by a firm in NYC sounds confusing. Does that mean the book could have been manufactured in Canada? Goodman used test areas in New York and Connecticut to measure sales of books. The annuals could have been tested in upstate New York near the Canadian border. After all, his operations were based in the state of New York.   

From what I've read, the Act was repealed "in stages" after the war.

Overstreet has noted '43-'44 quite likely due to the original US publication dates of the contents of both books  IMO.  Based on the discussions here and the date stamp, I'm calling the Overstreet info incorrect.

No way they were test marketed in upstate NY...too many copies are tied back to the Canadian cities in which they were originally purchased - none so far to US cities.  I saw a copy for sale here in Ottawa back in the 80s at the now defunct Maplecon.  The book had very tan pages though which is why I didn't buy it - that and the $600 or so price tag.

Where was it printed?  If it was printed in Canada, that would have meant shipping printing plates to probably Toronto as opposed to having the book printed in say NYC and shipped directly to Canada.  Probably far easier for Goodman to seek out a Canadian distributor (he probably had those contacts when Timely was originally selling books in Canada pre WECA) rather than trying to find a printer to which to ship the plates.

Edited February 26, 2017 by pemart1966

[aardvark88]

I think weather the MMC b/w 'annual' date stamp is June 15, 1945 or 1946 is now a moot point as Bronty said WECA extended into 1946. Recommend historians review Overstreet #44's well researched WECA article pages 1173-1174 about year 1946.

[pemart1966]

13 minutes ago, aardvark88 said:

I think weather the MMC b/w 'annual' date stamp is June 15, 1945 or 1946 is now a moot point as Bronty said WECA extended into 1946. Recommend historians review Overstreet #44's well researched WECA article pages 1173-1174 about year 1946.

I don't have it was does it say in a nutshell?

[aardvark88]

From memory, in a nutshell: WECA was being phased out spring, 1946 but lasted to summer, 1946. Overstreet article is longer and lists key Canadian white titles and Timely b/w 'annuals' distributed in Canada circa  1943 to 44.

[Ameri]

48 minutes ago, pemart1966 said:

From what I've read, the Act was repealed "in stages" after the war.

Overstreet has noted '43-'44 quite likely due to the original US publication dates of the contents of both books  IMO.  Based on the discussions here and the date stamp, I'm calling the Overstreet info incorrect.

No way they were test marketed in upstate NY...too many copies are tied back to the Canadian cities in which they were originally purchased - none so far to US cities.  I saw a copy for sale here in Ottawa back in the 80s at the now defunct Maplecon.  The book had very tan pages though which is why I didn't buy it - that and the $600 or so price tag.

Where was it printed?  If it was printed in Canada, that would have meant shipping printing plates to probably Toronto as opposed to having the book printed in say NYC and shipped directly to Canada.  Probably far easier for Goodman to seek out a Canadian distributor (he probably had those contacts when Timely was originally selling books in Canada pre WECA) rather than trying to find a printer to which to ship the plates.

Definitely true that most copies I heard of came from Canadian collections.  I'm not too savvy on Canadian comics, but the one's I have seen usually had Canadian ads. The annuals have blank inside covers and blank back covers. However, the interiors carried several US house ads for Timely comics, but they were also in the originals so that's expected. Still, it's odd to include those house ads if Canadian kids couldn't acquire the advertised books. Here's a copy that Sparkle City sold awhile back. My damaged copy has B-23-5 written in the logo, this one has B 5/23 (if that means anything).

 

[Primetime]

14 minutes ago, Ameri said:

Definitely true that most copies I heard of came from Canadian collections.  I'm not too savvy on Canadian comics, but the one's I have seen usually had Canadian ads. The annuals have blank inside covers and blank back covers. However, the interiors carried several US house ads for Timely comics, but they were also in the originals so that's expected. Still, it's odd to include those house ads if Canadian kids couldn't acquire the advertised books. Here's a copy that Sparkle City sold awhile back. My damaged copy has B-23-5 written in the logo, this one has B 5/23 (if that means anything).

 

sounds like both copies would refer to an arrival date of May 23.

Edited February 26, 2017 by Primetime

[Ameri]

1998 article

 

[pemart1966]

8 hours ago, Ameri said:

Definitely true that most copies I heard of came from Canadian collections.  I'm not too savvy on Canadian comics, but the one's I have seen usually had Canadian ads. The annuals have blank inside covers and blank back covers. However, the interiors carried several US house ads for Timely comics, but they were also in the originals so that's expected. Still, it's odd to include those house ads if Canadian kids couldn't acquire the advertised books. Here's a copy that Sparkle City sold awhile back. My damaged copy has B-23-5 written in the logo, this one has B 5/23 (if that means anything).

 

I don't think that it's odd that the house ads are included.  Goodman took the original source materials (existing plates or photo negatives or...) and had them reproduced verbatim.  Any modification to them would have cost him $.  Besides, he may have looked upon the original house ads as advertising for Timely titles he had visions of selling in Canada once the WECA ended.

 

[aardvark88]

fyi, the last WECA comics were from January, 1947. Interesting about the sales date of MMC b/w 'annual' may have started May 23, 1945 or 1946.

[Sqeggs]

Great thread, folks.  I have nothing to add, but these are my favorite kinds of threads.

[pemart1966]

35 minutes ago, aardvark88 said:

fyi, the last WECA comics were from January, 1947. Interesting about the sales date of MMC b/w 'annual' may have started May 23, 1945 or 1946.

Not sure what you mean by "...the last WECA comics were from January, 1947."

[Bronty]

I'll have to catch up on all this when I have more time , but two quick notes in the meantime.

1) that sparkle city 6.5 copy came from a basement in Montreal that had some incredible Canadian whites - Lipson got the whites, Sparkle city the US books.   Dime 1 9.0 - ridiculous - came from that collection along with Triumph 2 5.0 and others.

2) we have to ask ourselves why it's black and white coupled with the fact that during that period only Cdn comics would be sold here.   If goodman couldn't sell in Canada at the time, surely he would have just had a Cdn outfit do it for him?    And they printed their comics in black and white ?   Meaning color was not a choice but a manufacturing restriction because our local industry printed in black and white?

[Bronty]

The more we talk about this the more I want the copy for sale

[eccomic]

Here are some other books that came from the Montreal basement that the MM Annual surfaced from, that I have since had certified by CGC.

Note the distinct distributor's dates on the covers, similar to the MM Annual. There were about 30 other Canadian Whites I also acquired along with these books. 

 

Edited February 26, 2017 by eccomic

[Bronty]

Stephen , how does the cover stock on the MM annual compare to that of larger Bell and Educational Projects and FE Howard books?    I see those as the three most likely manufacturers if indeed Goodman had someone here do it for him ?   And probably FEH or EP as they did some wider format books?

Edited February 26, 2017 by Bronty