General discussion thread - keep the other threads clean 29 29

[techtre2003]

PIF PL Scenario (hypothetical)

 

Goods get offered/taken as follows:

A to B, B to C, C to D, D to B, B to C, C to A

 

Party D comes on the thread and says "party C is gone, no communication, no items"

 

Party A has yet to offer anything & doesn't want to because he's unlikely to get his claim from party C.

 

In the "spirit of the thread" - a kindly boardie jumps in and puts up the next offer...life goes on...until D decides to do a nomination.

 

Who goes on the PL ?

a) just C - the guy who will never appear here again anyways

b) A & C - both the guys who broke the PIF rules

 

 

My vote would be just C. but...

I think there are enough good, intelligent people in the PIF thread to come to a consensus as a whole on whether or not to nominate someone for the PL list. The thread as a whole runs relatively smoothly. Sure there are snags here and there but most things work themselves out. Outright theft, which has (in my opinion) occurred in this particular situation is rare so it's not like the PL list will be over run with PIF members.

 

I'll finish it for you. "My vote would be just C. but.....that's not what the PIF rules call for and both A & C should be added to the PL."

 

Anyways, that's the challenge with this type of multi-party transaction where sometimes applying the rules won't work the way most would want it to.

 

I don't have a strong opinion either way, I think you guys could handle your business over there or make use of the PL.

 

RULES:

-You must not be on the Hall of Shame list or be in poor standing on the boards

-You must have at least 50 posts

-If you claim some book(s), you must post your offering within 24 hours

-Only one offer at a time. No new book(s) can be posted until the existing offer has been claimed

-Post pics or scans of the book(s) you're giving away. Cell phone pics are fine

-Don't take book(s) if you've got nothing to offer in return

-Ship book(s) quickly so people aren't left hanging. No later than two weeks after someone claims your offer.

-Only one takeit every 7 days per member. However, if an item is not claimed within 24 hours, anyone is welcome to take it (no matter when they last claimed book(s). Just don't be greedy!

-Please do not discuss the value of the book(s) being offered. If you don't like them, you don't have to take them

-You can ONLY "take" a book after it has been listed.

-Be honest

-Have fun!

 

Out of curiosity, how does the blue rule work?

 

Nah, I finished my but... below that. Which I agree with you, the PIF guys can handle their own business. If something like that happened, PIF would come to a stop and decide as a group how to proceed. I would think as a participant (and maybe I'm wrong) that it would be decided as a group that all parties involved would receive something and Mr. C. should go to the PL list.

 

I think we are all smart enough to see that the rule you quoted would not get "A" put on the PL list in light of the situation. Then again we are just dumb donkeys (sorry, I had to throw that in)

Edited August 22, 2013 by techtre2003

[joecgcmaniac]

Thanks to the folks who are derailing my Castrillo covers thread.

 

Just goes to show, even when you try to help boardies out by moving things along, there will still be some bitter trolls starting drama.

 

Neither you nor your thread deserve this crud.

[CAHokie]

I would have bought one Speedy-D but I am just not a big Superman fan Despite what I have read about the artist (I have no personal knowledge of all of the prior events) he is one talented artist. Those covers are very impressive.

[Park]

Thanks to the folks who are derailing my Castrillo covers thread.

 

I can go in there and act like my dooshtastic self and clean that place out? Let me know as I have some other scheduled beratings and chastising I have to get to tonight.

[techtre2003]

First, I apologize for my snarky remark...I'll try to let things go.

 

Out of curiosity, how does the blue rule work?

Most people wait a week unless they really want the current offer then they wait the 24 hours Most of the good stuff doesn't last long.

 

PIF PL Scenario (hypothetical)

 

Goods get offered/taken as follows:

A to B, B to C, C to D, D to B, B to C, C to A

 

Party D comes on the thread and says "party C is gone, no communication, no items"

 

Party A has yet to offer anything & doesn't want to because he's unlikely to get his claim from party C.

 

In the "spirit of the thread" - a kindly boardie jumps in and puts up the next offer...life goes on...until D decides to do a nomination.

 

Who goes on the PL ?

a) just C - the guy who will never appear here again anyways

b) A & C - both the guys who broke the PIF rules

 

 

I assume A would move forward with their offering knowing that C will be put on the PL.

 

I received quite a few PMs with people offering to send me things because they found out I got hosed. Actually, right now there are multiple people offering Slym their copies of the Killing Joke because he was bummed he didn't claim a PIF. So I feel personA would be ok with moving forward.

 

This.

Slym mentioned he wanted to read the Killing Joke. I'd actually like to read it myself so I offered to pick a copy up and pass it on to him after I read it. Another generous boardie offered to send me an extra copy he had so I wouldn't have to go buy one. I'd have to say a vast majority of the PIF members are good people. So when a bad apple steps in and screws someone over it's a big slap in the face. I guess if you all really don't want us PIFers to announce a thief amongst the boards we can just keep it to ourselves and wait for him to journey over to the marketplace to screw someone else over on a "real" transaction. Not to sound corny but I tend to think of the CGC boards as a whole that should all watch each other's backs and not separate clicks who don't care what happens in other threads; even though they are too blind to see it CAN affect them too. Sorry for the peace and love rant there I'm done

[Speedy-D]

Thanks to the folks who are derailing my Castrillo covers thread.

 

I can go in there and act like my dooshtastic self and clean that place out? Let me know as I have some other scheduled beratings and chastising I have to get to tonight.

[bababooey]

PIF PL Scenario (hypothetical)

 

Goods get offered/taken as follows:

A to B, B to C, C to D, D to B, B to C, C to A

 

Party D comes on the thread and says "party C is gone, no communication, no items"

 

Party A has yet to offer anything & doesn't want to because he's unlikely to get his claim from party C.

 

In the "spirit of the thread" - a kindly boardie jumps in and puts up the next offer...life goes on...until D decides to do a nomination.

 

Who goes on the PL ?

a) just C - the guy who will never appear here again anyways

b) A & C - both the guys who broke the PIF rules

 

 

My vote would be just C. but...

I think there are enough good, intelligent people in the PIF thread to come to a consensus as a whole on whether or not to nominate someone for the PL list. The thread as a whole runs relatively smoothly. Sure there are snags here and there but most things work themselves out. Outright theft, which has (in my opinion) occurred in this particular situation is rare so it's not like the PL list will be over run with PIF members.

 

I'll finish it for you. "My vote would be just C. but.....that's not what the PIF rules call for and both A & C should be added to the PL."

 

Anyways, that's the challenge with this type of multi-party transaction where sometimes applying the rules won't work the way most would want it to.

 

I don't have a strong opinion either way, I think you guys could handle your business over there or make use of the PL.

 

RULES:

-You must not be on the Hall of Shame list or be in poor standing on the boards

-You must have at least 50 posts

-If you claim some book(s), you must post your offering within 24 hours

-Only one offer at a time. No new book(s) can be posted until the existing offer has been claimed

-Post pics or scans of the book(s) you're giving away. Cell phone pics are fine

-Don't take book(s) if you've got nothing to offer in return

-Ship book(s) quickly so people aren't left hanging. No later than two weeks after someone claims your offer.

-Only one takeit every 7 days per member. However, if an item is not claimed within 24 hours, anyone is welcome to take it (no matter when they last claimed book(s). Just don't be greedy!

-Please do not discuss the value of the book(s) being offered. If you don't like them, you don't have to take them

-You can ONLY "take" a book after it has been listed.

-Be honest

-Have fun!

 

Out of curiosity, how does the blue rule work?

 

Nah, I finished my but... below that. Which I agree with you, the PIF guys can handle their own business. If something like that happened, PIF would come to a stop and decide as a group how to proceed. I would think as a participant (and maybe I'm wrong) that it would be decided as a group that all parties involved would receive something and Mr. C. should go to the PL list.

 

I think we are all smart enough to see that the rule you quoted would not get "A" put on the PL list in light of the situation. Then again we are just dumb donkeys (sorry, I had to throw that in)

 

Please explain to me why "A" doesn't get added, he claimed something and failed to post an offer within 24 hours - because of a "situation" where he got nothing sent to him by a thief who failed to ship to two people. That doesn't relieve him of his responsibility to post something. This is where the trouble lies, you have "rules" & the "spirit" of the thread, jumping back & forth between the two can work when there's a consensus but that may not always be the case.

 

True, the PIF remedy was covered in my example "others stepping up" which is fine but that's not what the PL is about. The PL is for people who fail to honour a commitment, promise etc...if I say party "A" does belong on the list & your rule supports my position - there is no valid argument as to why both shouldn't go up on the PL & quite honestly, I wouldn't want to do business with either party.

 

I "get" that you guys want a place to put thieves, I think it does benefit everyone - but the discussions taking place elsewhere (PIF thread) & dropping off nominations probably doesn't work.

They should take place here like manicnerd was doing, just don't expect everyone to agree with you - if that's what the PL discussion thread was like then it would be boring, there's a reason for "testing" nominations by probing further & it adds legitimacy to the process.

 

 

[oakman29]

PIF PL Scenario (hypothetical)

 

Goods get offered/taken as follows:

A to B, B to C, C to D, D to B, B to C, C to A

 

Party D comes on the thread and says "party C is gone, no communication, no items"

 

Party A has yet to offer anything & doesn't want to because he's unlikely to get his claim from party C.

 

In the "spirit of the thread" - a kindly boardie jumps in and puts up the next offer...life goes on...until D decides to do a nomination.

 

Who goes on the PL ?

a) just C - the guy who will never appear here again anyways

b) A & C - both the guys who broke the PIF rules

 

I thought the Pay it Forward thread is a " here have this" type of thing? Get over it people.

[PovertyRow]

I believe the two options should be:

 

1) Yes, but as a sub-category or with a notation

 

B) No, F those junk donkeys

This probably isn't going to help, I understand you don't like the reaction you received when you first proposed the topic, but honestly, it's time to move past it.

 

Sharon has stepped up, provided us with a simple poll and hopefully silenced some nonsense from both parties, so we can vote on and receive the result you and many of us are after.

 

This is true even though the poll is just going to reflect almost exactly what the last poll stated.

 

Since this is a probation list inclusion matter... I'm almost 99% sure that POV would have stated the poll should have been placed in the PL discussions thread for posterity purposes... but he's not here today to complain about it.

 

If you are concerned, just ad a link to the PD thread. POV knows how to find me if he wants to yell at me, .

 

I ain;t saying nuthin' because there already WAS a poll in the PL discussion. So I look on this as more an opinion poll.

 

But I have no beef with a poll like this being outside the PL discussion. Now an HOS Poll? Yeah, I will stomp and yell and blow air out my gullet.

 

I can see both sides. It is not a true transaction as no money changed hands. But there is some money involved for shipping. And there is a stated agreement that the rules, which have been setup in PIF, are met.

 

I would not like to see the PIF mixed in to the PL list with a notation, though. If it is decided to use the PL list it should be in a separate PIF subsection, just like the HOS and PL subsections.But even that I am not really in favor of. Ultimately the HOS/PL is for sales between forum members.

 

Personally I think the PIF folks might consider setting up their own list and separate thread to contain it, through Moderator Intervention, the way we did with the HOS/PL list. Being able to get a PIF forum setup would make this much easier as they could have their own PIF rule listing, PIF discussion etc. But mixing in the PIF issues with the PL/hos issues will make things messier than they are now.

 

 

 

[Beige]

Well there you are.

 

POV, can you ask CGC peeps to set up a PIF 'bad guy' thread in the PIF section.

I'm happy to be a special person and keep it updated.

 

Thanks

 

Beige

[Beige]

PIF PL Scenario (hypothetical)

 

Goods get offered/taken as follows:

A to B, B to C, C to D, D to B, B to C, C to A

 

Party D comes on the thread and says "party C is gone, no communication, no items"

 

Party A has yet to offer anything & doesn't want to because he's unlikely to get his claim from party C.

 

In the "spirit of the thread" - a kindly boardie jumps in and puts up the next offer...life goes on...until D decides to do a nomination.

 

Who goes on the PL ?

a) just C - the guy who will never appear here again anyways

b) A & C - both the guys who broke the PIF rules

 

I thought the Pay it Forward thread is a " here have this" type of thing? Get over it people.

 

The forumite of the year speaks.

And quite frankly, makes himself look like an arse.

Nice.

Stick to the Birthday threads, may give you a shot next year too. (thumbs u

[Bosco685]

I believe the two options should be:

 

1) Yes, but as a sub-category or with a notation

 

B) No, F those junk donkeys

 

 

 

Probably a good idea...but I would go with "junk donkey jockeys" just to make it truly offensive.

 

 

 

It sounded like he was keeping it light and making a joke. We need a little more of that and less of the serious stuff, no?

 

I agree.

 

 

 

[maloney414]

PIF PL Scenario (hypothetical)

 

Goods get offered/taken as follows:

A to B, B to C, C to D, D to B, B to C, C to A

 

Party D comes on the thread and says "party C is gone, no communication, no items"

 

Party A has yet to offer anything & doesn't want to because he's unlikely to get his claim from party C.

 

In the "spirit of the thread" - a kindly boardie jumps in and puts up the next offer...life goes on...until D decides to do a nomination.

 

Who goes on the PL ?

a) just C - the guy who will never appear here again anyways

b) A & C - both the guys who broke the PIF rules

 

 

My vote would be just C. but...

I think there are enough good, intelligent people in the PIF thread to come to a consensus as a whole on whether or not to nominate someone for the PL list. The thread as a whole runs relatively smoothly. Sure there are snags here and there but most things work themselves out. Outright theft, which has (in my opinion) occurred in this particular situation is rare so it's not like the PL list will be over run with PIF members.

 

I'll finish it for you. "My vote would be just C. but.....that's not what the PIF rules call for and both A & C should be added to the PL."

 

Anyways, that's the challenge with this type of multi-party transaction where sometimes applying the rules won't work the way most would want it to.

 

I don't have a strong opinion either way, I think you guys could handle your business over there or make use of the PL.

 

RULES:

-You must not be on the Hall of Shame list or be in poor standing on the boards

-You must have at least 50 posts

-If you claim some book(s), you must post your offering within 24 hours

-Only one offer at a time. No new book(s) can be posted until the existing offer has been claimed

-Post pics or scans of the book(s) you're giving away. Cell phone pics are fine

-Don't take book(s) if you've got nothing to offer in return

-Ship book(s) quickly so people aren't left hanging. No later than two weeks after someone claims your offer.

-Only one takeit every 7 days per member. However, if an item is not claimed within 24 hours, anyone is welcome to take it (no matter when they last claimed book(s). Just don't be greedy!

-Please do not discuss the value of the book(s) being offered. If you don't like them, you don't have to take them

-You can ONLY "take" a book after it has been listed.

-Be honest

-Have fun!

 

Out of curiosity, how does the blue rule work?

 

Nah, I finished my but... below that. Which I agree with you, the PIF guys can handle their own business. If something like that happened, PIF would come to a stop and decide as a group how to proceed. I would think as a participant (and maybe I'm wrong) that it would be decided as a group that all parties involved would receive something and Mr. C. should go to the PL list.

 

I think we are all smart enough to see that the rule you quoted would not get "A" put on the PL list in light of the situation. Then again we are just dumb donkeys (sorry, I had to throw that in)

 

Please explain to me why "A" doesn't get added, he claimed something and failed to post an offer within 24 hours - because of a "situation" where he got nothing sent to him by a thief who failed to ship to two people. That doesn't relieve him of his responsibility to post something. This is where the trouble lies, you have "rules" & the "spirit" of the thread, jumping back & forth between the two can work when there's a consensus but that may not always be the case.

 

True, the PIF remedy was covered in my example "others stepping up" which is fine but that's not what the PL is about. The PL is for people who fail to honour a commitment, promise etc...if I say party "A" does belong on the list & your rule supports my position - there is no valid argument as to why both shouldn't go up on the PL & quite honestly, I wouldn't want to do business with either party.

 

I "get" that you guys want a place to put thieves, I think it does benefit everyone - but the discussions taking place elsewhere (PIF thread) & dropping off nominations probably doesn't work.

They should take place here like manicnerd was doing, just don't expect everyone to agree with you - if that's what the PL discussion thread was like then it would be boring, there's a reason for "testing" nominations by probing further & it adds legitimacy to the process.

 

 

Because boardie "A" hasn't wronged anyone. There would be no individual to nominate him to the list. He claimed a ghost offer, and the thread as a whole would be discussing the PL nomination of boardie "C". People would understand.

 

Boardie "C" would be on the list until they "made right" and boardie "D" took them off. That's how the regular PL currently works. It would be no different.

 

 

 

 

 

[maloney414]

This place is a community that looks after each other. I know some of you bicker and fight at times, but it really comes together at times as well.

 

To me, it's a no brainer to add deadbeats to the PL. Whether it's from our sales threads, eBay transactions or the PIF thread. Having it all in one place protects us all because the information is easy to find. If it's spread out, it's less likely to be helpful.

 

And that should be our goal. Help each other make informed decisions and keep this place as safe as we can for transactions.

Notations about the transaction being on eBay or the PIF are perfectly fine, and not something to fight over. But keeping it in one place is what's best for the community.

 

 

[manicnerd]

This place is a community that looks after each other. I know some of you bicker and fight at times, but it really comes together at times as well.

 

To me, it's a no brainer to add deadbeats to the PL. Whether it's from our sales threads, eBay transactions or the PIF thread. Having it all in one place protects us all because the information is easy to find. If it's spread out, it's less likely to be helpful.

 

And that should be our goal. Help each other make informed decisions and keep this place as safe as we can for transactions.

Notations about the transaction being on eBay or the PIF are perfectly fine, and not something to fight over. But keeping it in one place is what's best for the community.

 

+10000

[oakman29]

PIF PL Scenario (hypothetical)

 

Goods get offered/taken as follows:

A to B, B to C, C to D, D to B, B to C, C to A

 

Party D comes on the thread and says "party C is gone, no communication, no items"

 

Party A has yet to offer anything & doesn't want to because he's unlikely to get his claim from party C.

 

In the "spirit of the thread" - a kindly boardie jumps in and puts up the next offer...life goes on...until D decides to do a nomination.

 

Who goes on the PL ?

a) just C - the guy who will never appear here again anyways

b) A & C - both the guys who broke the PIF rules

 

I thought the Pay it Forward thread is a " here have this" type of thing? Get over it people.

 

The forumite of the year speaks.

And quite frankly, makes himself look like an arse.

Nice.

Stick to the Birthday threads, may give you a shot next year too. (thumbs u

Pulease! You guys in the PIF thread are making things too intense.It was meant to be a nice gesture to pay it forward,and have fun with it.Now you guys are structuring and complicating it.I don't know what went down,and why this has come to this point.If you make a similar probation list isn't that just defeating the whole purpose of the kindness of giving to others?

[bababooey]

 

PIF PL Scenario (hypothetical)

 

Goods get offered/taken as follows:

A to B, B to C, C to D, D to B, B to C, C to A

 

Party D comes on the thread and says "party C is gone, no communication, no items"

 

Party A has yet to offer anything & doesn't want to because he's unlikely to get his claim from party C.

 

In the "spirit of the thread" - a kindly boardie jumps in and puts up the next offer...life goes on...until D decides to do a nomination.

 

Who goes on the PL ?

a) just C - the guy who will never appear here again anyways

b) A & C - both the guys who broke the PIF rules

 

 

My vote would be just C. but...

I think there are enough good, intelligent people in the PIF thread to come to a consensus as a whole on whether or not to nominate someone for the PL list. The thread as a whole runs relatively smoothly. Sure there are snags here and there but most things work themselves out. Outright theft, which has (in my opinion) occurred in this particular situation is rare so it's not like the PL list will be over run with PIF members.

 

I'll finish it for you. "My vote would be just C. but.....that's not what the PIF rules call for and both A & C should be added to the PL."

 

Anyways, that's the challenge with this type of multi-party transaction where sometimes applying the rules won't work the way most would want it to.

 

I don't have a strong opinion either way, I think you guys could handle your business over there or make use of the PL.

 

RULES:

-You must not be on the Hall of Shame list or be in poor standing on the boards

-You must have at least 50 posts

-If you claim some book(s), you must post your offering within 24 hours

-Only one offer at a time. No new book(s) can be posted until the existing offer has been claimed

-Post pics or scans of the book(s) you're giving away. Cell phone pics are fine

-Don't take book(s) if you've got nothing to offer in return

-Ship book(s) quickly so people aren't left hanging. No later than two weeks after someone claims your offer.

-Only one takeit every 7 days per member. However, if an item is not claimed within 24 hours, anyone is welcome to take it (no matter when they last claimed book(s). Just don't be greedy!

-Please do not discuss the value of the book(s) being offered. If you don't like them, you don't have to take them

-You can ONLY "take" a book after it has been listed.

-Be honest

-Have fun!

 

Out of curiosity, how does the blue rule work?

 

Nah, I finished my but... below that. Which I agree with you, the PIF guys can handle their own business. If something like that happened, PIF would come to a stop and decide as a group how to proceed. I would think as a participant (and maybe I'm wrong) that it would be decided as a group that all parties involved would receive something and Mr. C. should go to the PL list.

 

I think we are all smart enough to see that the rule you quoted would not get "A" put on the PL list in light of the situation. Then again we are just dumb donkeys (sorry, I had to throw that in)

 

Please explain to me why "A" doesn't get added, he claimed something and failed to post an offer within 24 hours - because of a "situation" where he got nothing sent to him by a thief who failed to ship to two people. That doesn't relieve him of his responsibility to post something. This is where the trouble lies, you have "rules" & the "spirit" of the thread, jumping back & forth between the two can work when there's a consensus but that may not always be the case.

 

True, the PIF remedy was covered in my example "others stepping up" which is fine but that's not what the PL is about. The PL is for people who fail to honour a commitment, promise etc...if I say party "A" does belong on the list & your rule supports my position - there is no valid argument as to why both shouldn't go up on the PL & quite honestly, I wouldn't want to do business with either party.

 

I "get" that you guys want a place to put thieves, I think it does benefit everyone - but the discussions taking place elsewhere (PIF thread) & dropping off nominations probably doesn't work.

They should take place here like manicnerd was doing, just don't expect everyone to agree with you - if that's what the PL discussion thread was like then it would be boring, there's a reason for "testing" nominations by probing further & it adds legitimacy to the process.

 

 

Because boardie "A" hasn't wronged anyone. There would be no individual to nominate him to the list. He claimed a ghost offer, and the thread as a whole would be discussing the PL nomination of boardie "C". People would understand.

 

Boardie "C" would be on the list until they "made right" and boardie "D" took them off. That's how the regular PL currently works. It would be no different.

 

 

 

 

 

Not really, in the hypothetical scenario, boardie "A" claimed goods from a bad apple and then refused to make an offer on the thread within 24 hours.

 

When it's not a direct "one to one" trade it's not as simple as "he didn't pay, I'm not shipping his books" - in the PIF scenario the "taking & giving" is unrelated.

 

The rule clearly spells out the expectation to post an offer within 24 hours. So since you say boardie "A" is off the hook, what happens in these two scenarios, when more time has passed:

 

1. What if boardie "A" posts his offer then he learns about the deadbeat and wants to retract his offer?

2. What if he posts his offer, someone takes that offer & he comes on the thread and says he's not going to ship the items?

 

When there are multiple parties involved, a single problem child affects multiple parties and clearly impacts how people view subsequent "transactions" & responsibilities. I'm not disagreeing with the common sense conclusions that others would reach but they are not based on the rules.

 

If the PIF rules don't factor into reaching the common sense result - the above two scenarios show where one problem child creates more problem children & keeping a lid on that would be difficult IF the consensus is that someone can break a cornerstone thread rule, where then do you draw the line where boardie "A" is committed to fulfilling his obligation if you're not going to use the rules?

Edited August 22, 2013 by bababooey

[Jeffro.]

PIF PL Scenario (hypothetical)

 

Goods get offered/taken as follows:

A to B, B to C, C to D, D to B, B to C, C to A

 

Party D comes on the thread and says "party C is gone, no communication, no items"

 

Party A has yet to offer anything & doesn't want to because he's unlikely to get his claim from party C.

 

In the "spirit of the thread" - a kindly boardie jumps in and puts up the next offer...life goes on...until D decides to do a nomination.

 

Who goes on the PL ?

a) just C - the guy who will never appear here again anyways

b) A & C - both the guys who broke the PIF rules

 

I thought the Pay it Forward thread is a " here have this" type of thing? Get over it people.

 

The forumite of the year speaks.

And quite frankly, makes himself look like an arse.

Nice.

Stick to the Birthday threads, may give you a shot next year too. (thumbs u

Pulease! You guys in the PIF thread are making things too intense.It was meant to be a nice gesture to pay it forward,and have fun with it.Now you guys are structuring and complicating it.I don't know what went down,and why this has come to this point.If you make a similar probation list isn't that just defeating the whole purpose of the kindness of giving to others?

 

What's hysterical is Beige calling out anyone for being a arse. Go back and look at some of his early posts. The hypocrisy boggles the mind.

[maloney414]

PIF PL Scenario (hypothetical)

 

Goods get offered/taken as follows:

A to B, B to C, C to D, D to B, B to C, C to A

 

Party D comes on the thread and says "party C is gone, no communication, no items"

 

Party A has yet to offer anything & doesn't want to because he's unlikely to get his claim from party C.

 

In the "spirit of the thread" - a kindly boardie jumps in and puts up the next offer...life goes on...until D decides to do a nomination.

 

Who goes on the PL ?

a) just C - the guy who will never appear here again anyways

b) A & C - both the guys who broke the PIF rules

 

 

My vote would be just C. but...

I think there are enough good, intelligent people in the PIF thread to come to a consensus as a whole on whether or not to nominate someone for the PL list. The thread as a whole runs relatively smoothly. Sure there are snags here and there but most things work themselves out. Outright theft, which has (in my opinion) occurred in this particular situation is rare so it's not like the PL list will be over run with PIF members.

 

I'll finish it for you. "My vote would be just C. but.....that's not what the PIF rules call for and both A & C should be added to the PL."

 

Anyways, that's the challenge with this type of multi-party transaction where sometimes applying the rules won't work the way most would want it to.

 

I don't have a strong opinion either way, I think you guys could handle your business over there or make use of the PL.

 

RULES:

-You must not be on the Hall of Shame list or be in poor standing on the boards

-You must have at least 50 posts

-If you claim some book(s), you must post your offering within 24 hours

-Only one offer at a time. No new book(s) can be posted until the existing offer has been claimed

-Post pics or scans of the book(s) you're giving away. Cell phone pics are fine

-Don't take book(s) if you've got nothing to offer in return

-Ship book(s) quickly so people aren't left hanging. No later than two weeks after someone claims your offer.

-Only one takeit every 7 days per member. However, if an item is not claimed within 24 hours, anyone is welcome to take it (no matter when they last claimed book(s). Just don't be greedy!

-Please do not discuss the value of the book(s) being offered. If you don't like them, you don't have to take them

-You can ONLY "take" a book after it has been listed.

-Be honest

-Have fun!

 

Out of curiosity, how does the blue rule work?

 

Nah, I finished my but... below that. Which I agree with you, the PIF guys can handle their own business. If something like that happened, PIF would come to a stop and decide as a group how to proceed. I would think as a participant (and maybe I'm wrong) that it would be decided as a group that all parties involved would receive something and Mr. C. should go to the PL list.

 

I think we are all smart enough to see that the rule you quoted would not get "A" put on the PL list in light of the situation. Then again we are just dumb donkeys (sorry, I had to throw that in)

 

Please explain to me why "A" doesn't get added, he claimed something and failed to post an offer within 24 hours - because of a "situation" where he got nothing sent to him by a thief who failed to ship to two people. That doesn't relieve him of his responsibility to post something. This is where the trouble lies, you have "rules" & the "spirit" of the thread, jumping back & forth between the two can work when there's a consensus but that may not always be the case.

 

True, the PIF remedy was covered in my example "others stepping up" which is fine but that's not what the PL is about. The PL is for people who fail to honour a commitment, promise etc...if I say party "A" does belong on the list & your rule supports my position - there is no valid argument as to why both shouldn't go up on the PL & quite honestly, I wouldn't want to do business with either party.

 

I "get" that you guys want a place to put thieves, I think it does benefit everyone - but the discussions taking place elsewhere (PIF thread) & dropping off nominations probably doesn't work.

They should take place here like manicnerd was doing, just don't expect everyone to agree with you - if that's what the PL discussion thread was like then it would be boring, there's a reason for "testing" nominations by probing further & it adds legitimacy to the process.

 

 

Because boardie "A" hasn't wronged anyone. There would be no individual to nominate him to the list. He claimed a ghost offer, and the thread as a whole would be discussing the PL nomination of boardie "C". People would understand.

 

Boardie "C" would be on the list until they "made right" and boardie "D" took them off. That's how the regular PL currently works. It would be no different.

 

 

 

 

 

Not really, in the hypothetical scenario, boardie "A" claimed goods from a bad apple and then refused to make an offer on the thread within 24 hours.

 

When it's not a direct "one to one" trade it's not as simple as "he didn't pay, I'm not shipping his books" - in the PIF scenario the "taking & giving" is unrelated.

 

The rule clearly spells out the expectation to post an offer within 24 hours. So since you say boardie "A" is off the hook, what happens in these two scenarios, when more time has passed:

 

1. What if boardie "A" posts his offer then he learns about the deadbeat and wants to retract his offer?

 

Same scenario as earlier then.

 

Because boardie "A" hasn't wronged anyone. There would be no individual to nominate him to the list. He claimed a ghost offer, and the thread as a whole would be discussing the PL nomination of boardie "C". People would understand.

 

2. What if he posts his offer, someone takes that offer & he comes on the thread and says he's not going to ship the items?

 

Again, I think people would understand. It's not a robot or computer program dealing with absolutes. I don't think anyone would be demanding them to continue under the circumstances. The thread would basically stop until someone restarted it with an offer.

 

And if the new person was a spoon and demanded they ship the offer, even though the discussion is going on and the thread has stopped. Well just like we have with the regular PL you nominate people and when there is a grey area it's discussed. This is not new.

 

So to take it further. Say they did ship their offer. Then boardie "C" would be on the list until both boardie "D" and boardie "A" took them off.

 

 

When there are multiple parties involved, a single problem child affects multiple parties and clearly impacts how people view subsequent "transactions" & responsibilities. I'm not disagreeing with the common sense conclusions that others would reach but they are not based on the rules.

 

If the PIF rules don't factor into reaching the common sense result - the above two scenarios show where one problem child creates more problem children & keeping a lid on that would be difficult IF the consensus is that someone can break a cornerstone thread rule, where then do you draw the line where boardie "A" is committed to fulfilling his obligation if you're not going to use the rules?

 

[EC ed]

Different subject: shouldn't big sales threads that combine books from the 1970s, 1980s, 1990s, and 2000s be in the Mixed Age thread rather than the Gold/Silver/Bronze thread?