General discussion thread - keep the other threads clean 29 29

[seanfingh]

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[Designer Toast]

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And there it is.

[jjfversion1]

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seems like what is going on now. Although I am pretty sure I am the only board member that has had his threads deleted and rules enforced upon. Has anybody else with similar threads been treated like this?

[skypinkblu]

If everyone that pays $100 gets at least say $200 worth of stuff, someone getting $500 worth of stuff does not make it a lottery.

 

If the $500 box isn't promoted, identified or otherwise noted, then I would agree. You can silently give away anything you want, if it's behind the scenes and not used as an incentive to buy.

 

But if you mention in the listing that one of the boxes will be a higher value than the others, then it's not allowed.

 

So, the guy who just relisted his mystery boxes but said he would include the two previous raffle prizes within the mystery boxes themselves, is still promoting a raffle.

 

It was just poofed.

 

 

I was not promoting a raffle. I just said I threw in the books and reorganized each box. Not sure why my thread was deleted again. Instead of deleting my thread, the moderator should directly contact me and tell me why my thread is breaking the rules of the board. I do not appreciate having a thread I took time to write for a second time get deleted and not receive an explanation of exactly why.

 

 

I didn't mean to upset you. For that I apologize. I was really talking in general seeing if there was a consensus. It's obviously not very cut and dry. Also I don't think the mods contact people directly.

 

I was reading this from Arch, and I thought your listing matched the part I highlighted in red.

 

 

Just a reminder - raffles are not allowed.

 

If you are spending more money on something than it's worth in the hopes that you will be the advertised "lucky winner" to get the secret package that is instead worth more money than you paid, then you are gambling. Raffles / gambling aren't allowed.

 

Even with a basic give away, (e.g. give you a shot at a prize when you buy their stuff) companies are usually held to a "no purchase necessary" requirement by law. So people can "sign up to win" even if they buy nothing.

 

Frankly, I don't know all of the ins-and-outs of the laws regarding this kind of thing so the actual moderation standard will be something like "if it smells like a raffle / game of chance / lucky few give away, then it's out."

 

When you showed the pictures of the slabs, some of which are worth more than others, I thought that was the problem.

[joe_collector]

I was not promoting a raffle. I just said I threw in the books and reorganized each box.

 

What about "no incentives" don't you understand?

 

If it's really just a reorganization, then there is no reason to mention the "higher value slabs", is there?

 

True Mystery Boxes are a MYSTERY, and therefore nothing but the equivalent valuation for all the boxes in the listing needs to be mentioned.

 

If one box is worth more than another, and you actively promote certain "high demand slabs" are in a few boxes, but not all, then that's a "chance listing" and not a Mystery Box.

[jjfversion1]

I was not promoting a raffle. I just said I threw in the books and reorganized each box.

 

What about "no incentives" don't you understand?

 

If it's really just a reorganization, then there is no reason to mention the "higher value slabs", is there?

 

True Mystery Boxes are a MYSTERY, and therefore nothing but the equivalent valuation for all the boxes in the listing needs to be mentioned.

 

If one box is worth more than another, and you actively promote certain "high demand slabs" are in a few boxes, but not all, then that's a "chance listing" and not a Mystery Box.

 

I am selling 4 boxes. Each box will contain similar books and have the "high demand slabs" you are so eloquently putting. I am asking $250 per box, and I had board members asking me to post pictures of some of the books that are being included in the sale (can you blame them? $250 is a lot of money). I am being transparent by showing them some of the books. I am giving no incentive as each box costs exactly the same and includes the same value in comic books. I am abiding by forum rules even after being singled out from everybody else for trying to organize a sales thread.

 

Have you even looked at my sales thread before commenting? Go and look at it in the mixed age forum and you will see that I have not stated "one box is worth more than another", and there will be high demand books/slabs in each box, not just one or two.

 

I would recommend you getting off your high horse as a lot of board members don't appreciate your snide comments.

[N/A]

I still love you.

[jjfversion1]

And on top of that, the two books that were originally prizes that are now being thrown in aren't more expensive than the other books that were already in each box! There was already "high demand slabs" in each box if you go look at my thread (thumbs u

[jjfversion1]

If everyone that pays $100 gets at least say $200 worth of stuff, someone getting $500 worth of stuff does not make it a lottery.

 

If the $500 box isn't promoted, identified or otherwise noted, then I would agree. You can silently give away anything you want, if it's behind the scenes and not used as an incentive to buy.

 

But if you mention in the listing that one of the boxes will be a higher value than the others, then it's not allowed.

 

So, the guy who just relisted his mystery boxes but said he would include the two previous raffle prizes within the mystery boxes themselves, is still promoting a raffle.

 

It was just poofed.

 

 

I was not promoting a raffle. I just said I threw in the books and reorganized each box. Not sure why my thread was deleted again. Instead of deleting my thread, the moderator should directly contact me and tell me why my thread is breaking the rules of the board. I do not appreciate having a thread I took time to write for a second time get deleted and not receive an explanation of exactly why.

 

 

I didn't mean to upset you. For that I apologize. I was really talking in general seeing if there was a consensus. It's obviously not very cut and dry. Also I don't think the mods contact people directly.

 

I was reading this from Arch, and I thought your listing matched the part I highlighted in red.

 

 

Just a reminder - raffles are not allowed.

 

If you are spending more money on something than it's worth in the hopes that you will be the advertised "lucky winner" to get the secret package that is instead worth more money than you paid, then you are gambling. Raffles / gambling aren't allowed.

 

Even with a basic give away, (e.g. give you a shot at a prize when you buy their stuff) companies are usually held to a "no purchase necessary" requirement by law. So people can "sign up to win" even if they buy nothing.

 

Frankly, I don't know all of the ins-and-outs of the laws regarding this kind of thing so the actual moderation standard will be something like "if it smells like a raffle / game of chance / lucky few give away, then it's out."

 

When you showed the pictures of the slabs, some of which are worth more than others, I thought that was the problem.

 

No offense taken at all and I appreciate the apology. The 4 slabs I have posted have a FMV range of $90-$200. If I was advertising 1 book that cost $500 and a bunch of $30 books (which has been the case in some recent mystery threads that went unpunished), then I could see that my thread would be considered a lucky few giveaway. I am selling 4 boxes, and each box is guaranteed some nice books (you get a $90 slab? well you are gonna get some nicer books to make sure you are just as happy as someone who gets the $200 book). I can't believe people are complaining even before a buyer has a chance to complain for themselves (assuming that is what we are trying to avoid here because of all the drama people are starting).

 

 

[Green]

The focus in determining if something is a raffle, lottery or gambling is not the winners. In order for something to be classified as a lottery there must be losers. If everyone that pays $100 gets at least say $200 worth of stuff, someone getting $500 worth of stuff does not make it a lottery.

 

Where's your definition from? Mine is from dictionary.com

 

lottery[ lot-uh-ree ]

noun [plural lot·ter·ies.]

1. a gambling game or method of raising money, as for some public charitable purpose, in which a large number of tickets are sold and a drawing is held for certain prizes.

2. any scheme for the distribution of prizes by chance.

3. any happening or process that is or appears to be determined by chance: to look upon life as a lottery.

 

If you are guaranteed to get $200 for $100 then chance has been taken out of the equation.

[Green]

If everyone that pays $100 gets at least say $200 worth of stuff, someone getting $500 worth of stuff does not make it a lottery.

 

If the $500 box isn't promoted, identified or otherwise noted, then I would agree. You can silently give away anything you want, if it's behind the scenes and not used as an incentive to buy.

 

But if you mention in the listing that one of the boxes will be a higher value than the others, then it's not allowed.

 

So, the guy who just relisted his mystery boxes but said he would include the two previous raffle prizes within the mystery boxes themselves, is still promoting a raffle.

 

It was just poofed.

 

 

I was not promoting a raffle. I just said I threw in the books and reorganized each box. Not sure why my thread was deleted again. Instead of deleting my thread, the moderator should directly contact me and tell me why my thread is breaking the rules of the board. I do not appreciate having a thread I took time to write for a second time get deleted and not receive an explanation of exactly why.

 

 

I didn't mean to upset you. For that I apologize. I was really talking in general seeing if there was a consensus. It's obviously not very cut and dry. Also I don't think the mods contact people directly.

 

I was reading this from Arch, and I thought your listing matched the part I highlighted in red.

 

 

Just a reminder - raffles are not allowed.

 

If you are spending more money on something than it's worth in the hopes that you will be the advertised "lucky winner" to get the secret package that is instead worth more money than you paid, then you are gambling. Raffles / gambling aren't allowed.

 

Even with a basic give away, (e.g. give you a shot at a prize when you buy their stuff) companies are usually held to a "no purchase necessary" requirement by law. So people can "sign up to win" even if they buy nothing.

 

Frankly, I don't know all of the ins-and-outs of the laws regarding this kind of thing so the actual moderation standard will be something like "if it smells like a raffle / game of chance / lucky few give away, then it's out."

 

When you showed the pictures of the slabs, some of which are worth more than others, I thought that was the problem.

 

No offense taken at all and I appreciate the apology. The 4 slabs I have posted have a FMV range of $90-$200. If I was advertising 1 book that cost $500 and a bunch of $30 books (which has been the case in some recent mystery threads that went unpunished), then I could see that my thread would be considered a lucky few giveaway. I am selling 4 boxes, and each box is guaranteed some nice books (you get a $90 slab? well you are gonna get some nicer books to make sure you are just as happy as someone who gets the $200 book). I can't believe people are complaining even before a buyer has a chance to complain for themselves (assuming that is what we are trying to avoid here because of all the drama people are starting).

 

 

As long as the large font part in the quote is guaranteed to be not true then there should not be a problem.

[jjfversion1]

If everyone that pays $100 gets at least say $200 worth of stuff, someone getting $500 worth of stuff does not make it a lottery.

 

If the $500 box isn't promoted, identified or otherwise noted, then I would agree. You can silently give away anything you want, if it's behind the scenes and not used as an incentive to buy.

 

But if you mention in the listing that one of the boxes will be a higher value than the others, then it's not allowed.

 

So, the guy who just relisted his mystery boxes but said he would include the two previous raffle prizes within the mystery boxes themselves, is still promoting a raffle.

 

It was just poofed.

 

 

I was not promoting a raffle. I just said I threw in the books and reorganized each box. Not sure why my thread was deleted again. Instead of deleting my thread, the moderator should directly contact me and tell me why my thread is breaking the rules of the board. I do not appreciate having a thread I took time to write for a second time get deleted and not receive an explanation of exactly why.

 

 

I didn't mean to upset you. For that I apologize. I was really talking in general seeing if there was a consensus. It's obviously not very cut and dry. Also I don't think the mods contact people directly.

 

I was reading this from Arch, and I thought your listing matched the part I highlighted in red.

 

 

Just a reminder - raffles are not allowed.

 

If you are spending more money on something than it's worth in the hopes that you will be the advertised "lucky winner" to get the secret package that is instead worth more money than you paid, then you are gambling. Raffles / gambling aren't allowed.

 

Even with a basic give away, (e.g. give you a shot at a prize when you buy their stuff) companies are usually held to a "no purchase necessary" requirement by law. So people can "sign up to win" even if they buy nothing.

 

Frankly, I don't know all of the ins-and-outs of the laws regarding this kind of thing so the actual moderation standard will be something like "if it smells like a raffle / game of chance / lucky few give away, then it's out."

 

When you showed the pictures of the slabs, some of which are worth more than others, I thought that was the problem.

 

No offense taken at all and I appreciate the apology. The 4 slabs I have posted have a FMV range of $90-$200. If I was advertising 1 book that cost $500 and a bunch of $30 books (which has been the case in some recent mystery threads that went unpunished), then I could see that my thread would be considered a lucky few giveaway. I am selling 4 boxes, and each box is guaranteed some nice books (you get a $90 slab? well you are gonna get some nicer books to make sure you are just as happy as someone who gets the $200 book). I can't believe people are complaining even before a buyer has a chance to complain for themselves (assuming that is what we are trying to avoid here because of all the drama people are starting).

 

 

As long as the large font part in the quote is guaranteed to be not true then there should not be a problem.

 

+1

 

...but I don't make the rules here

 

 

Edited June 16, 2014 by jjfversion1

[metallickyrulz]

The focus in determining if something is a raffle, lottery or gambling is not the winners. In order for something to be classified as a lottery there must be losers. If everyone that pays $100 gets at least say $200 worth of stuff, someone getting $500 worth of stuff does not make it a lottery.

 

Where's your definition from? Mine is from dictionary.com

 

lottery[ lot-uh-ree ]

noun [plural lot·ter·ies.]

1. a gambling game or method of raising money, as for some public charitable purpose, in which a large number of tickets are sold and a drawing is held for certain prizes.

2. any scheme for the distribution of prizes by chance.

3. any happening or process that is or appears to be determined by chance: to look upon life as a lottery.

 

This is the broadest definition of lottery ever. Life itself can be considered a lottery under your definition?

 

The dump I took earlier was also a lottery, and the breath I'm taking now... and now... and now... and now is a lottery.

 

I hope you're not a lawyer or any other kind of professional where narrow and precise definitions are needed, because that definition is not at all helpful to your cause that the definition of lottery is clear.

 

If anything, the definition you just posted opened an infinite number of definitions to the term. Can I not buy a book on here now according to your definition?

 

Every sale is technically a lottery under your definition right? Life itself is a lottery, so we should just shut the website down. Arch, you seem to be doing a cracker job with enforcing the rules, shut the site down!! It's all a huge lottery!! Scams all around! No way to avoid it!

 

This site is too much of a lottery, I think it is my duty as KING OF THE FORUM GUARDS (formerly held by joe-collector), to personally complain and notify the mods of the injustices going on every day!

 

How can we trust any of the sellers here!!! I'm so scared! We have no way to avoid scams (other than the probies list, fraud laws, and many other avenues to avoid being scammed), but I'm scared I might have to contact the FBI, CIA, and NBC about this site! Sorry, online auctions are technically illegal as well in some jurisdictions, and we have those going on every day!!

 

Some states have made unregulated auctions ILLEGAL!! And we commence in interstate commerce on this board, so some of our exchanges cross into states with these laws and these sales are technically illegal! Should I contact Arch about that so he can keep shutting one guy's auction down for the next few days?? I think that would help the boards!! Do you guys like me now?? Please, I have nothing else in my life! I have to help avoid scams, so I will join the Gestapo trying to stop everything illegal here on the boards!! Any of you guys who have ever done auctions are getting banned (or just one of you, depending on how Arch feels today).

 

If you're going to be armchair lawyers (horrible ones at that), many of us can play the same game.

[jjfversion1]

Thanks for the support bro. I had no idea that was the case with unregulated auctions. Very interesting considering I see those being posted with no issues all the time.

[mschmidt]

If everyone that pays $100 gets at least say $200 worth of stuff, someone getting $500 worth of stuff does not make it a lottery.

 

If the $500 box isn't promoted, identified or otherwise noted, then I would agree. You can silently give away anything you want, if it's behind the scenes and not used as an incentive to buy.

 

But if you mention in the listing that one of the boxes will be a higher value than the others, then it's not allowed.

 

So, the guy who just relisted his mystery boxes but said he would include the two previous raffle prizes within the mystery boxes themselves, is still promoting a raffle.

 

It was just poofed.

 

 

I was not promoting a raffle. I just said I threw in the books and reorganized each box. Not sure why my thread was deleted again. Instead of deleting my thread, the moderator should directly contact me and tell me why my thread is breaking the rules of the board. I do not appreciate having a thread I took time to write for a second time get deleted and not receive an explanation of exactly why.

 

 

I didn't mean to upset you. For that I apologize. I was really talking in general seeing if there was a consensus. It's obviously not very cut and dry. Also I don't think the mods contact people directly.

 

I was reading this from Arch, and I thought your listing matched the part I highlighted in red.

 

 

Just a reminder - raffles are not allowed.

 

If you are spending more money on something than it's worth in the hopes that you will be the advertised "lucky winner" to get the secret package that is instead worth more money than you paid, then you are gambling. Raffles / gambling aren't allowed.

 

Even with a basic give away, (e.g. give you a shot at a prize when you buy their stuff) companies are usually held to a "no purchase necessary" requirement by law. So people can "sign up to win" even if they buy nothing.

 

Frankly, I don't know all of the ins-and-outs of the laws regarding this kind of thing so the actual moderation standard will be something like "if it smells like a raffle / game of chance / lucky few give away, then it's out."

 

When you showed the pictures of the slabs, some of which are worth more than others, I thought that was the problem.

 

No offense taken at all and I appreciate the apology. The 4 slabs I have posted have a FMV range of $90-$200. If I was advertising 1 book that cost $500 and a bunch of $30 books (which has been the case in some recent mystery threads that went unpunished), then I could see that my thread would be considered a lucky few giveaway. I am selling 4 boxes, and each box is guaranteed some nice books (you get a $90 slab? well you are gonna get some nicer books to make sure you are just as happy as someone who gets the $200 book). I can't believe people are complaining even before a buyer has a chance to complain for themselves (assuming that is what we are trying to avoid here because of all the drama people are starting).

 

 

Why are you pretending the first thread you did wasn't a raffle?

 

I didn't get a chance to see the 2nd one, but in the first one you specifically advertised the fact that you were going to have a raffle (that was your exact word) at the end of the sale to reward any potential buyers. When Arch clarified the rules about mystery boxes it was obvious that your thread was in violation - so the fact that it was pulled wasn't a surprise - yet you're still complaining about the injustice of it all? :doh:

[metallickyrulz]

Thanks for the support bro. I had no idea that was the case with unregulated auctions. Very interesting considering I see those being posted with no issues all the time.

 

No problem dude.

 

If some people did some research, they would learn that 27 states require licensed auctioneers to run auctions.

 

Yes, even eBay has a license to be an auctioneer. They are sanctioned by all state governments and many international governments to run auctions, because they have shown they have the ability to self-regulate. They also pay fees to the states to maintain a license. The CGC boards don't likely have this regulatory capability or any license to allow these auctions!!!

 

The reason these laws are enacted is to avoid fraud and discrepancies in auctions. Technically, in one of the auctions on these boards, someone could easily post something as an auction, and if it ends for a price they don't like, they can just tell the buyer to screw off. eBay has shown that it has ways to prevent this, and so do we, with negative feedback on eBay and the probation list on these boards. Except, our site does not pay a license fee to every state to run auctions that are just as illegal, if not more illegal, than running raffles on this site. If we're going to be fair, we have to avoid breaking the law across the board, instead of just picking the laws we want to follow.

 

I, for one, say that we should just revert to what we've always done and run a trusting and self-regulating system (despite Robocop aka joe-collector's likely aneurysm as a result of the continuing injustices on the boards), instead of trying to be the guys on the show Suits and trying to enforce the law on these boards. Because, believe me, the forum rules here do NOT represent or come even close to encompassing the nuances of state and federal laws in regards to internet sales.

 

There are tons of these auctions on these boards being done without any action against them. I could go around and report all of these auctions, and even report them for violating the laws of 27 states, since it is clear what an auction is, and we are having them occur every day on these boards.

 

The problem is, I don't get a boner for taking the money out of others' pockets. I'd like to see the rules either enforced evenly and fairly, or we just keep the status quo of a self-maintaining system. What is the point of targeting each other, other than to waste each other's time and lose each other profits.

[jjfversion1]

If everyone that pays $100 gets at least say $200 worth of stuff, someone getting $500 worth of stuff does not make it a lottery.

 

If the $500 box isn't promoted, identified or otherwise noted, then I would agree. You can silently give away anything you want, if it's behind the scenes and not used as an incentive to buy.

 

But if you mention in the listing that one of the boxes will be a higher value than the others, then it's not allowed.

 

So, the guy who just relisted his mystery boxes but said he would include the two previous raffle prizes within the mystery boxes themselves, is still promoting a raffle.

 

It was just poofed.

 

 

I was not promoting a raffle. I just said I threw in the books and reorganized each box. Not sure why my thread was deleted again. Instead of deleting my thread, the moderator should directly contact me and tell me why my thread is breaking the rules of the board. I do not appreciate having a thread I took time to write for a second time get deleted and not receive an explanation of exactly why.

 

 

I didn't mean to upset you. For that I apologize. I was really talking in general seeing if there was a consensus. It's obviously not very cut and dry. Also I don't think the mods contact people directly.

 

I was reading this from Arch, and I thought your listing matched the part I highlighted in red.

 

 

Just a reminder - raffles are not allowed.

 

If you are spending more money on something than it's worth in the hopes that you will be the advertised "lucky winner" to get the secret package that is instead worth more money than you paid, then you are gambling. Raffles / gambling aren't allowed.

 

Even with a basic give away, (e.g. give you a shot at a prize when you buy their stuff) companies are usually held to a "no purchase necessary" requirement by law. So people can "sign up to win" even if they buy nothing.

 

Frankly, I don't know all of the ins-and-outs of the laws regarding this kind of thing so the actual moderation standard will be something like "if it smells like a raffle / game of chance / lucky few give away, then it's out."

 

When you showed the pictures of the slabs, some of which are worth more than others, I thought that was the problem.

 

No offense taken at all and I appreciate the apology. The 4 slabs I have posted have a FMV range of $90-$200. If I was advertising 1 book that cost $500 and a bunch of $30 books (which has been the case in some recent mystery threads that went unpunished), then I could see that my thread would be considered a lucky few giveaway. I am selling 4 boxes, and each box is guaranteed some nice books (you get a $90 slab? well you are gonna get some nicer books to make sure you are just as happy as someone who gets the $200 book). I can't believe people are complaining even before a buyer has a chance to complain for themselves (assuming that is what we are trying to avoid here because of all the drama people are starting).

 

 

Why are you pretending the first thread you did wasn't a raffle?

 

I didn't get a chance to see the 2nd one, but in the first one you specifically advertised the fact that you were going to have a raffle (that was your exact word) at the end of the sale to reward any potential buyers. When Arch clarified the rules about mystery boxes it was obvious that your thread was in violation - so the fact that it was pulled wasn't a surprise - yet you're still complaining about the injustice of it all? :doh:

 

Excuse me, but where am I pretending I wasn't doing a raffle? This is all in regards to my thread being taken down again (a second time) after said raffle was removed.

[jjfversion1]

Also, where is the justice when only my thread is targeted for being "against the law", when we have so many violations (look at a handful of the other mystery box threads with obvious raffles posted within the same week as my initial thread) on this board? Seems to me like certain people with power here are picking and choosing who to single out and enforce rules upon. This is not mainly directed towards the moderators of this board (who I think have a hard job to begin with), but moreso the board vigilantes who take it upon themselves to police these boards and ruin the fun for the small population of boardies that actually enjoy partaking in these kind of things (also isn't it interesting that most of the people complaining about mystery boxes are the ones who haven't participated in the ones offered on this site? The majority of individuals who are involved in these sales seem to genuinely be happy with their purchases. It is sad that the disdain of few rains on the parade of many).

 

THAT is why I am complaining.

[Jeffro.]

The way things are going I can see Arch banning them completely.

 

Maybe people should just try to sell their comics individually, instead of this mystery box nonsense.

[telerites]

The way things are going I can see Arch banning them completely.

 

Maybe people should just try to sell their comics individually, instead of this mystery box nonsense.