Marvel UK Price Variants 16 16

[Aman619]

The reason for the green interiors is that the red and blue plates got swapped for each other.  Yellow and black stayed correct.

magenta plus yellow gives you red.  but blue plus yellow becomes green.  Sh it happens on cheap press jobs. Cause who cares. Depending on what percentage of the run was done when they caught it determines a reprint, or just ship em.

[Aman619]

If you've still got the book handy, count how many pages were affected. Should be 4 or 8... can't recall the folio patterns off hand, but they printed 8 pages , front and back, facing every which way so that when cut and folded up they become a 16 page section of the comic book.  And the green pages won't be consecutive.

Juts picture you have a piece of paper big enough for 4 pages of a comic. Picture you will print the back too, that's 4 more pages, total of eight. Now imagine that you will fold it in half, and in half again down to comic book size...  finally, now figure out which pages would have needed to have been printed upside down, so that after two folds, they are ALL right side up.

youncan try this at home. Take a blank sheet any size. Fold it in half twice.  Now place it like a comic book on the table, with the spine on the left.  Number the pages 1 thru 8 so they all read correctly .  When you unfold it, you'll see how the platers must piece the film together so that the correct pages all line up correctly, and are in order on the plates.

i seem to recall that comics may have been printed 8 up on large rolls of newsprint. Os each comic needed only two sheets of 8 pages (printed front and back) to make a 32 page comic. 

Edited November 20, 2017 by Aman619

[Get Marwood & I]

4 hours ago, Aman619 said:

The reason for the green interiors is that the red and blue plates got swapped for each other.  Yellow and black stayed correct.

magenta plus yellow gives you red.  but blue plus yellow becomes green.  Sh it happens on cheap press jobs. Cause who cares. Depending on what percentage of the run was done when they caught it determines a reprint, or just ship em.

I kept a note that came with the eBay listing when I purchased the book years ago and the seller worked in the industry and said the error was spotted almost immediately and corrected straight away. Whether that's true or not I don't know but I've only seen two examples in 10 years so it could be. Wish I'd tried to contact the seller now, to pick their brains further.

3 hours ago, Aman619 said:

If you've still got the book handy, count how many pages were affected. Should be 4 or 8... can't recall the folio patterns off hand, but they printed 8 pages , front and back, facing every which way so that when cut and folded up they become a 16 page section of the comic book.  And the green pages won't be consecutive.

Juts picture you have a piece of paper big enough for 4 pages of a comic. Picture you will print the back too, that's 4 more pages, total of eight. Now imagine that you will fold it in half, and in half again down to comic book size...  finally, now figure out which pages would have needed to have been printed upside down, so that after two folds, they are ALL right side up.

youncan try this at home. Take a blank sheet any size. Fold it in half twice.  Now place it like a comic book on the table, with the spine on the left.  Number the pages 1 thru 8 so they all read correctly .  When you unfold it, you'll see how the platers must piece the film together so that the correct pages all line up correctly, and are in order on the plates.

i seem to recall that comics may have been printed 8 up on large rolls of newsprint. Os each comic needed only two sheets of 8 pages (printed front and back) to make a 32 page comic. 

I've put it away now but will dig it out again at some point and check.  I thought it was just two pages that were affected. Will let you know. 

When I worked in a bank years ago I produced a staff magazine which basically ripped the s it out of everyone. It was surprisingly popular.  I used A3 sheets and used to have fun trying to work out which of the 4 A4 pages I needed to attach where. I'd then run them through a photocopier twice for front and back. Lots of trial and error,  and paper jams where the sheets were warm having already run through the copier once.

I could've done with your paper folding technique back then! 

On a separate point, isn't it impossible to fold and sheet of paper, regardless of size, more than eight times? 

[1950's war comics]

[gadzukes]

On 11/18/2017 at 6:40 PM, Marwood & I said:

I posted this earlier in the "Amazing Fantasy 15 Is Worth How Much!? Club" to show the difference in prices that the same book goes for in pence vs cents. I barely got a response of course, so I thought I'd post it again here where I know I can be sure it will get zero response:

 

The pence book actually looks better, has no chipping and yet it went for just over 50% of it's rivals final price. Nonsense isn't it. 

$27k is 60% of $45k

I think the buyer of the Pence copy did extremely well.  It's a sweet looking copy.

When you consider that there's been a few 7.0 cent copies that have sold over $100k, that 6.0 pence looks even better.

Edited November 25, 2017 by gadzukes

[gadzukes]

I remember once, in a moment of boredom, figuring out the surface area of an Amazing Fantasy 15 comic, including all interior pages.  I then measured the surface area of the "distinct differences" between a Pence copy and a Cent copy.  I don't remember my exact results (and I don't feel like figuring it out again) but a Pence copy is something like 99.8% exactly the same as a Cent copy.

Amazing

[gadzukes]

What if.......

A man or woman was found who actually worked the presses in 1962 when AF15 was being printed, and definitively stated that the Pence copies were printed 1st before the cent copies were printed.

Do you think that would that affect the pricing on Pence copies in any way?

[Harry Lime]

A couple more of my pence Spideys that I don't think I've posted. Always loved the cover to #72

 

 

 

 

[Get Marwood & I]

On 25/11/2017 at 3:53 PM, gadzukes said:

$27k is 60% of $45k

I think the buyer of the Pence copy did extremely well.  It's a sweet looking copy.

When you consider that there's been a few 7.0 cent copies that have sold over $100k, that 6.0 pence looks even better.

Sorry, gadzukes, the Warden put me in solitary again for sticking up for people . Terrible crime, terrible!

You're right, it's 60%. Apologies for my lazy maths (it's maths over here, not math) 

On 25/11/2017 at 4:03 PM, gadzukes said:

I remember once, in a moment of boredom, figuring out the surface area of an Amazing Fantasy 15 comic, including all interior pages.  I then measured the surface area of the "distinct differences" between a Pence copy and a Cent copy.  I don't remember my exact results (and I don't feel like figuring it out again) but a Pence copy is something like 99.8% exactly the same as a Cent copy.

Amazing

Intriguing, yes. Did you include the divine trinity in your workings though - price, date and indicia?  

On 25/11/2017 at 4:10 PM, gadzukes said:

What if.......

A man or woman was found who actually worked the presses in 1962 when AF15 was being printed, and definitively stated that the Pence copies were printed 1st before the cent copies were printed.

Do you think that would that affect the pricing on Pence copies in any way?

I don't remember that issue of 'What If....?' Did it have Spider-Man in it?

Seriously, I don't think it would alter people's views or collecting habits. If you're set on cents, you'll likely care not a jot. I like to know these things, because the original production process interests me. It would be nice to know which came first, but I'll eat the chicken and the egg regardless of the outcome. But the egg tastes nicer, assuming the egg is a pence printed egg. I've killed that one now, haven't I 

[Get Marwood & I]

On 25/11/2017 at 7:47 PM, Harry Lime said:

A couple more of my pence Spideys that I don't think I've posted. Always loved the cover to #72

 

 

 

 

Gimme dat 10d,  gimme dat shilling 

I made a pence song. Cool. 

[Get Marwood & I]

Evening.

The discerning among you will no doubt have Marvelled at our perfectly presented pence priced Pearl and Patsy pictures posted at the beginning of this thread. Note the profligate use of ‘p’s in that sentence reader - enough for a nice pea soup 

I posted them for a reason. They’re not really the kind of titles that set the world alight, and though they will have their suitors, many collectors pass them by in favour of the more ‘exciting’ genres.

 

From a pence perspective (there I go again) they are significant. If we isolate the early ‘Teen Humour / Funny Girl’ titles from the pence spreadsheet (above) it makes sobering viewing. As you can see, My Girl Pearl and Patsy & Hedy are the only two titles for which a pence printed copy has been found.

I bang on a lot about making assumptions about what may or may not exist, based usually on spreadsheet patterns and years of constant searching. If our three comics here did not feature (Pearl #7, Patsy & Hedy #70 & 71) you would be forgiven for making the assumption that Thorpe & Porter made a conscious decision not to import this genre of comic. Maybe they thought the humour would not resonate with the denizens of Planet 9d?

When I found the My Girl Pearl #7 I was fairly dumbfounded. It’s the only copy I’ve seen in 10 years of pence investigating. The title is so obscure, that you can barely find US copies either – eBay USA (for my search engine at least) throws up a single US priced copy – here it is, alongside my pence copy:

  

 

Interesting that the 10c price font is the thin one, and not the usual fat one...

It’s the same story with Patsy & Hedy #71. Only two copies have been found, my #71 and a 70 which exists on the UK Comic Price Guide website. Here is my copy again, and a US example taken from eBay US. Again, the US copies are in very short supply:

 

  

 

The existence of these pence copies opens the door for copies to exist for the other titles too. If Patsy & Hedy #70 and 71 exist, why not Patsy Walker #89 & 90? Remember, if I had not found that one solitary MGP #7 I would be saying here now that my assumption, based on patterns and research, is that it doesn’t exist as a pence title. But it does, so I cannot say the others don’t.

As we move down the years, it’s easier to say with near certainty that a book doesn’t exist as a pence copy. To illustrate, the title ‘Weird Wonder Tales’ ran for 22 issues from December 1973 and pence issues have been found for only issues 5 to 11 inclusive. I can be fairly certain that the other issues don’t exist however as, being a later title, copies are comparatively plentiful and I think I would have found examples by now if they did exist.

 

But titles such as Patsy Walker and Love Romances are very hard to find in any instance. Coupled with them crossing the first months of UK imports it’s easy to see why it would be so hard to verify their existence.

So, in summary, we’re stuck on 3,007 pence copies and have been for a while. I’m 99% certain that Weird Wonder Tales won’t be adding any more issues to that number. But I cannot say the same for our Teen Humour / Funny Girl titles. It keeps the fun alive, knowing that one day a copy may surface as the My Girl Pearl did.

As I always say, if only to myself, all good fun!

P.S. I’m as confident as I can be that some of our early Western titles will add to the number at some point. They come along at an alarming slow rate, but they do come along… In the meantime, while we wait, here are some non-Marvel / DC pence related ramblings to tide you over:

 

[Get Marwood & I]

On 19/11/2017 at 10:28 PM, VintageComics said:

@DiceX worked in this exact field for many years, which is why I posed the question to him. He'd be able to say definitively.

Still no sign of DiceX Roy. Should we be worried?

I found this article from Chuck at Mile High, who often champions pence books:

http://www.milehighcomics.com/newsletter/120908.html

One extract from it:

In case you're wondering, I concentrated my purchasing efforts at the London convention at seeking out 1970's and 1980's Marvel and DC comics with British Pence cover prices. There has long been a lot of controversy about British editions of US comics, with the traditional school of thought arguing that they are reprints, and as such should be priced significantly less than American editions. I quite beg to differ with that line of reasoning. I know for a fact that UK editions were actually printed at exactly the same time as American editions. This process was explained to me during the late-1970's when I actually went to Sparta, Illinois, home of the gigantic printing plant that was producing almost all American comics. Robert Craig, who was in charge of the presses, explained to me that the interiors of comics for US and UK distribution were printed at exactly the same time. The covers were then printed sequentially, with the US editions run first. Then the presses printing the covers were stopped for just a few minutes after the US run was finished, and an UK black plate (with the current Pence price) was substituted for the black plate that had US price. In my professional opinion, this changing of the black plate for British editions was the first concerted effort on the part of Marvel and DC to create variant editions. Print runs varied, but UK editions were clearly printed in far smaller numbers than US editions. My best guess is that UK editions may have constituted as few as 10% of the total print runs during the 1970's and 1980's.

If true, that scuppers our theory regarding pence books having deeper colours etc.

I searched Robert Craig on the Web in the hope I could find a contact point to maybe try and email him. Alas, all I found was this:

http://mcdanielfh.com/tribute/details/150/Robert-Craig/obituary.html

Looks like it's him, as it says "Robert began working at Spartan Printing in January 1959 and continued there until he retired on May 21, 1994"

I wonder if we'll ever find someone who knows what went on. I tried Chuck a while back. He was very encouraging about my pence spreadsheet and said he'd like to do something with it (get your jokes in now) but I never heard back and didn't follow it up. Maybe I should try again.

[Get Marwood & I]

A question / answer from my 'other pence publishers' thread which might interest the regular pence enthusiasts here:

On 12/12/2017 at 10:34 PM, 01TheDude said:

well -- let me ask you this. Do you call comic books from Mexico that use Spanish throughout "language variants" or "language/price variants" since they are sold in pesos?

Unless you have an actual variation of pricing on a specific book - as seen with the Marvel 25/30 cent and later 30-35 cent ones in the States, I don't understand calling these books price variants at all. Maybe it is in there -- but honestly I get lost reading your commentary disguised as making a point.

 

Have a Merry Christmas.

 

On 13/12/2017 at 4:00 PM, Marwood & I said:

OK, let's see if I can explain my position on this @01TheDude

I call the books in my three pence threads 'Pence Price Variants' because I believe that term best describes what they are. If you look at the three pictures below you'll see:

• A first printing Amazing Spider-Man with a US 12c cover price
• A first printing Amazing Spider-Man with a UK 10d cover price
• A subsequent foreign reprint of Amazing Spider-Man, in this case with a Mexican $1.00 cover price

    

 

The US and UK books are both first printings. They were produced in the same location, on the same day by the same printer. The US version is the 'main' copy. The UK version is the 'secondary' copy, produced in approximately one tenth of the volume of the US version. Because they were produced as part of the same print run, they are effectively the same comic but with one small variation. The UK copy is slightly different to the US copy and, therefore, is a variant of it. The variation in this case is the price. So it is a 'price variant'.

To further clarify, there can be many types of price variant - US (e.g. 30/35cv), Canadian and Australian. All are first printing variants with differing prices. So to make it clear that the UK price variant is being referred to, I add 'pence' to the words 'price variant' to it to show it's a UK copy not a Canadian or Australian or US price variant.

So the term 'Pence Price Variant' to me is as factually accurate as it's possible to be.

The third comic above is not a first printing. It is a later produced repackaged comic in a different language made by a different printer. It is not a variant, as it is not part of the original comic run. So this is the 'foreign edition' I think you are referring to in your earlier post.

I hope that helps you to understand my thought process.

I'm sorry that my ramblings are not to your taste by the way. We're all different and I can't expect you to find my posts entertaining just because I do. But I hope you would at least give me a little credit for providing what I hope is the most in depth summary of what exists for Marvel and DC in this area that you will find anywhere online.

To conclude, have a read of this thread:

These are US price variants, like the 30/35cv's you mention earlier and may find greater favour with you for their US 'purity' 

Cheers, Steve

 

[VintageComics]

4 hours ago, Marwood & I said:

Still no sign of DiceX Roy. Should we be worried?

Dice works for Voldemart and is also pretty busy so he likely doesn't frequent this chat forum much.

[Get Marwood & I]

1 minute ago, VintageComics said:

Dice works for Voldemart and is also pretty busy so he likely doesn't frequent this chat forum much.

Drat. 

[Foley]

On 12/14/2017 at 7:41 PM, Marwood & I said:

The covers were then printed sequentially, with the US editions run first. Then the presses printing the covers were stopped for just a few minutes after the US run was finished, and an UK black plate (with the current Pence price) was substituted for the black plate that had US price.

If what Chuck said above is true Steve, I wonder why it looks like I can faintly see a bit of the U.S. price behind the 9d. The top of the "2" (just under the "E" in "MARVEL) and the top left of the "1" (to the right of the "S" in "COMICS")? I don't know anything about printing, but it looks like they struck over the 12c with more green and a 9d, but the green didn't cover the entire 12c.

 

Edited January 5, 2018 by Foley

[Get Marwood & I]

48 minutes ago, Foley said:

If what Chuck said above is true Steve, I wonder why it looks like I can faintly see a bit of the U.S. price behind the 9d. The top of the "2" (just under the "E" in "MARVEL) and the top left of the "1" (to the right of the "S" in "COMICS")? I don't know anything about printing, but it looks like they struck over the 12c with more green and a 9d, but the green didn't cover the entire 12c.

 

Ryan, you are a genius. It seems logical that the presence of the tiny uncovered bits of the 12c price can only mean that the cents copy was printed first. At least for this issue. And that supports what Chuck said - Cents run first, then pence. I'll check for similar evidence tomorrow. You may have settled that outstanding question. Well done! Now, about the chicken......

[Get Marwood & I]

22 hours ago, Foley said:

If what Chuck said above is true Steve, I wonder why it looks like I can faintly see a bit of the U.S. price behind the 9d. The top of the "2" (just under the "E" in "MARVEL) and the top left of the "1" (to the right of the "S" in "COMICS")? I don't know anything about printing, but it looks like they struck over the 12c with more green and a 9d, but the green didn't cover the entire 12c.

 

 

@Aman619 @VintageComics - Guys, what do you think of Ryan's ( @Foley) observation here? Does the fact that tiny parts of the 12c price can still appear to be seen behind the 9d price indicate that the 12c was first and the 9d second? Logic says so, yes?

Coupled with the article I posted from Chuck a few posts back which says US copies first, is this sufficient evidence to settle this long questioned scenario do you think? Or just one random example for one days printing schedule?

Your thoughts please, while I look for more examples (I have 3,007 images to look at tomorrow). The two visible dots of black above and to the left of the 9d copy do seem to line up with the 12c  in the US copy, but maybe it's a printing glitch / trick of the eyes? 

Whaddaya think?

Cheers, Steve

 

 

 

[ADAMANTIUM]

My thinking is: 

Is it easier to change the printing (and I'm assuming at this time they used "plates") of one aspect of a plate, or change whole plates? 

And if indeed they were printed with cents copies first.... how did they then run the paper through again with the pence price? Does that cause pence editions to have a lower survival rate? or was there more room for error?

Edited January 6, 2018 by ADAMANTIUM

[lizards2]

1 hour ago, Marwood & I said:

 

@Aman619 @VintageComics - Guys, what do you think of Ryan's ( @Foley) observation here? Does the fact that tiny parts of the 12c price can still appear to be seen behind the 9d price indicate that the 12c was first and the 9d second? Logic says so, yes?

Coupled with the article I posted from Chuck a few posts back which says US copies first, is this sufficient evidence to settle this long questioned scenario do you think? Or just one random example for one days printing schedule?

Your thoughts please, while I look for more examples (I have 3,007 images to look at tomorrow). The two visible dots of black above and to the left of the 9d copy do seem to line up with the 12c  in the US copy, but maybe it's a printing glitch / trick of the eyes? 

Whaddaya think?

Cheers, Steve

 

 

 

I'm thinking that it could just as easily be part of the printing plate.  The "art" didn't totally get cleaned up with the overlay.  Isn't that done way before the printing presses actually start to roll? In other words, there are two different related but unrelated plates, and the pence one didn't quite get all the cents residue knocked off.

That totally jives with what Chuckles was told.

Edited January 6, 2018 by lizards2