CGC's Custom Labels 1 1

[lizards2]

2 minutes ago, oakman29 said:

 

5 minutes ago, lizards2 said:

I dont know what I mean either.

 

[porcupine48]

21 minutes ago, lizards2 said:

jimmers would tell you, beavers are always in season here.

[lizards2]

5 minutes ago, porcupine48 said:

26 minutes ago, lizards2 said:

jimmers would tell you, beavers are always in season here.

 

[chrisco37]

Not for me, personally, but I can see how others would like it.   I wouldn't pay for the service or pay extra for the label. 

[Dark Knight]

I like the new option to have a custom label for WD. Definitely targeted for WD fanboys and a great "collector's" piece.  Also an extra added business for them since I'm sure some people would have their holders relabeled.  I'm not a modern comics collector, but now tempted to just buy a WD book for the new custom label.

[ronnieramone]

This is the classic, short-term thinking that devastated the comics business in the 90s, and I think it has the potential to hurt the grading industry in much the same way.  I think it will be a huge boon to business in the short-term, as a bunch of people will buy in simply because it is new and different.  They do look pretty cool, I will admit.  In the long-term, however, custom CGC labels could open more doors for competitors with even edgier labels and could eventually dilute the integrity of graded books in general.  There is little difference between buying a comic book just because of the variant cover and getting a book graded (or re-slabbed) in order to get a custom label.  It blurs the line between rating and preserving a collectible in an impartial way, and being an attempt to become a collectible in itself.  Having the comic grading industry leader choose to go down this path makes it inevitable that other grading companies will follow in order to remain competitive.  De-standardization of labels will also allow disruptors to enter the fray doing far more dangerous things.  What I would mainly be concerned about is a "preservation service" with custom labels that will show any grade the user wants to put on it.  Sure, reputable comic dealers and knowledgeable collectors would not take these slabs seriously, but if there is money to be gained by taking a 5.0 restored FF #48 and calling it a 6.5 universal with a picture of Galactus on the label, I guarantee that *someone* will start selling these at retail or conventions.  A prevalence of custom labels will make the landscape more confusing for new collectors.  Confusing new collectors limits future growth, offsetting any short-term gains observed.  If new collectors suspect that books they spent hundreds or even thousands on are virtually worthless because they bought the wrong label, they may stop buying graded books.  If existing collectors also become jaded and put off by these gimmicks or begin to perceive the CGC brand as being diluted or less valuable (maybe they think their own grading system is more accurate, and the disruptor gives them that option), then we could have the 90s comic crash repeating itself in the grading business.

[Sensei Ryan]

13 hours ago, ronnieramone said:

This is the classic, short-term thinking that devastated the comics business in the 90s, and I think it has the potential to hurt the grading industry in much the same way.  I think it will be a huge boon to business in the short-term, as a bunch of people will buy in simply because it is new and different.  They do look pretty cool, I will admit.  In the long-term, however, custom CGC labels could open more doors for competitors with even edgier labels and could eventually dilute the integrity of graded books in general.  There is little difference between buying a comic book just because of the variant cover and getting a book graded (or re-slabbed) in order to get a custom label.  It blurs the line between rating and preserving a collectible in an impartial way, and being an attempt to become a collectible in itself.  Having the comic grading industry leader choose to go down this path makes it inevitable that other grading companies will follow in order to remain competitive.  De-standardization of labels will also allow disruptors to enter the fray doing far more dangerous things.  What I would mainly be concerned about is a "preservation service" with custom labels that will show any grade the user wants to put on it.  Sure, reputable comic dealers and knowledgeable collectors would not take these slabs seriously, but if there is money to be gained by taking a 5.0 restored FF #48 and calling it a 6.5 universal with a picture of Galactus on the label, I guarantee that *someone* will start selling these at retail or conventions.  A prevalence of custom labels will make the landscape more confusing for new collectors.  Confusing new collectors limits future growth, offsetting any short-term gains observed.  If new collectors suspect that books they spent hundreds or even thousands on are virtually worthless because they bought the wrong label, they may stop buying graded books.  If existing collectors also become jaded and put off by these gimmicks or begin to perceive the CGC brand as being diluted or less valuable (maybe they think their own grading system is more accurate, and the disruptor gives them that option), then we could have the 90s comic crash repeating itself in the grading business.

I can understand your concerns but I think this is a huuuuuuuge assumption to make based on pretty much nothing that is currently happening.  It's very slippery-slopeish, too.  Firstly, we all know that at this point there is no 'real' competition for CGC yet...the main competitor has still not caught the sort of steam that they should have and IMO it will be a few years down the road before they have to close shop...they just ain't CGC and IMO won't ever be.  I also don't know how custom labels from CGC would lead to 'make your own' graded labels in any way, shape, or form so I think you've boarded the paranoia train a bit on that one (no offense).  As far as custom labels go I think they're cool but I wouldn't necessarily pay more $ to get one just because it's on the label.  To me, the book inside IS still the most important thing regardless of the label. 

This was quite an opinionated 1st post you've made...WTTBs, tho.

[djpinkpanther67]

18 hours ago, ronnieramone said:

This is the classic, short-term thinking that devastated the comics business in the 90s, and I think it has the potential to hurt the grading industry in much the same way.  I think it will be a huge boon to business in the short-term, as a bunch of people will buy in simply because it is new and different.  They do look pretty cool, I will admit.  In the long-term, however, custom CGC labels could open more doors for competitors with even edgier labels and could eventually dilute the integrity of graded books in general.  There is little difference between buying a comic book just because of the variant cover and getting a book graded (or re-slabbed) in order to get a custom label.  It blurs the line between rating and preserving a collectible in an impartial way, and being an attempt to become a collectible in itself.  Having the comic grading industry leader choose to go down this path makes it inevitable that other grading companies will follow in order to remain competitive.  De-standardization of labels will also allow disruptors to enter the fray doing far more dangerous things.  What I would mainly be concerned about is a "preservation service" with custom labels that will show any grade the user wants to put on it.  Sure, reputable comic dealers and knowledgeable collectors would not take these slabs seriously, but if there is money to be gained by taking a 5.0 restored FF #48 and calling it a 6.5 universal with a picture of Galactus on the label, I guarantee that *someone* will start selling these at retail or conventions.  A prevalence of custom labels will make the landscape more confusing for new collectors.  Confusing new collectors limits future growth, offsetting any short-term gains observed.  If new collectors suspect that books they spent hundreds or even thousands on are virtually worthless because they bought the wrong label, they may stop buying graded books.  If existing collectors also become jaded and put off by these gimmicks or begin to perceive the CGC brand as being diluted or less valuable (maybe they think their own grading system is more accurate, and the disruptor gives them that option), then we could have the 90s comic crash repeating itself in the grading business.

[SameLame]

4 hours ago, Sensei Ryan said:

I can understand your concerns but I think this is a huuuuuuuge assumption to make based on pretty much nothing that is currently happening.  It's very slippery-slopeish, too.  Firstly, we all know that at this point there is no 'real' competition for CGC yet...the main competitor has still not caught the sort of steam that they should have and IMO it will be a few years down the road before they have to close shop...they just ain't CGC and IMO won't ever be.  

FYI they were recently purchased by Beckett, so I don't know about closing shop soon.

[wormboy]

They look pretty cool, but I wouldn’t pay a premium for one.

If they offered a Miller Daredevil option, I might have to consider it for my DD run.

[ADAMANTIUM]

1 minute ago, wormboy said:

They look pretty cool, but I wouldn’t pay a premium for one.

If they offered a Miller Daredevil option, I might have to consider it for my DD run.

It's $5, which isn't a lot for some here and there.

When they start the limited variant label as the person who bumped the thread, then maybe it's over doing it. I don't see that happening

[wormboy]

16 minutes ago, ADAMANTIUM said:

It's $5, which isn't a lot for some here and there.

When they start the limited variant label as the person who bumped the thread, then maybe it's over doing it. I don't see that happening

I agree. 

[ADAMANTIUM]

They're not advertised that much really. Other than the Stan Lee and walking dead one's I don't know of any others. The walking dead had variants or kind of. I dig the Stan Lee one but have only paid for two labels. I think it's a neat idea, and I don't know know if it's a slippery slope kind of deal. I do know the first time the labels were available were the Stan one's, and they came around when the new new case and label came out. That was probably to ease the transition to the new stuff...

[ronnieramone]

It's not so much paranoia as it is simple pattern recognition.  Netflix was no 'real' competition for Blockbuster back in the day, either.

We already saw this same trend in comic books in the 90s.  No one ever thought anyone would ever be able to compete with Marvel and DC and then Image came and proved everyone wrong.  Comic books were selling in the millions per copy in those days and no one imagined the bottom would fall out from under it.  Then it did.  Thousands of specialty stores closed up shop almost overnight.  Today, comic books sell a fraction of what they used to, the number of retailers and readers seem to continue to shrink, even as films and video games break sales records using the same exact characters.  The kind of disruption I am talking about has happened in many other industries, famously.  Kodak and Borders also come to mind, decimated by market changes they failed to anticipate and account for.  Then you have the 2007-2008 real estate crash which in retrospect seems obvious but somehow only a select few saw it coming.  CGC is by no means "Too Big to Fail" and there is substantial precedent for this kind of thing.  No paranoia train ticket required.

Also, you don't make good decisions based solely on what is currently happening, but you try to factor in what might happen in the future.  I do think vanity labels will be successful, I just don't think they will turn out to be a good decision for CGC, at least not in the long term.  Imagine if police cars, badges and uniforms were customized.  How would you recognize the police when they showed up?  CGC is like that.  It is the uniform and the standard.  If the uniform changes too much or too often, that standard can become diluted and lose its authority and perceived value.  People will look elsewhere for the authority and standardization they seek, or they will deregulate entirely and shift towards a more "fun" approach to collecting.  I also think these labels are an ethical grey area where CGC is becoming the collectible rather than merely grading it, and it damages their integrity a little bit.

Now, I can see how vanity labels on comic slabs could really shake up the status quo, and it is understandable why CGC would want to try and shape or mold that niche early on.  I just think it could backfire, that's all.  They may be opening a Pandora's Box with this and suddenly labels won't mean what they once did.  Looking at the convention scene explosion over the last several years and the rise of the blank sketch cover, I already see a trend towards more personalized "experience" collecting, which the vanity comic label fits perfectly into.  I just think that the CGC should proceed with caution and consider more carefully whether they want to take things in this direction.

 

[ADAMANTIUM]

Valid points

It all goes back to buy the book not the label

Buy what you love  I just had a hippie moment ha

Seriously customizations are finicky, I get your point. But it's still a personal choice, I think that weighs in. I do see the need to be aware of the branding and keep it neutral as pointed out earlier in the thread.

If everyone did it... wouldn't that make it less of a manufactured collectible?

Edited January 17, 2018 by ADAMANTIUM
Auto correct

[Key Collector Comics]

We are in favor.  It's like giving a guitar or a car a sweet new paint job.  As long as it's tasteful and reasonably uncommon, thumbs up!

[Sensei Ryan]

14 hours ago, SameLame said:

FYI they were recently purchased by Beckett, so I don't know about closing shop soon.

Hence why I said 'few years down the road.'  A few years down the road isn't 'soon.' I also don't think being bought out by another company is necessarily a good thing.  It may increase their marketability but when you can't stand on your own and prefer selling to increase your business that doesn't equate to something good IMO.

Now if Disney buys Beckett then you'd have more of an argument.  But I think Disney would much prefer to put their interest into CGC if that were to ever happen (they always go for the best franchises if you haven't noticed).

[Sensei Ryan]

12 hours ago, ADAMANTIUM said:

They're not advertised that much really. Other than the Stan Lee and walking dead one's I don't know of any others. The walking dead had variants or kind of. I dig the Stan Lee one but have only paid for two labels. I think it's a neat idea, and I don't know know if it's a slippery slope kind of deal. I do know the first time the labels were available were the Stan one's, and they came around when the new new case and label came out. That was probably to ease the transition to the new stuff...

I think there were some George Perez ones too but other than those, the Stan Lee's, and the Walking Dead I don't know of any others (that I can recall, at least)

[kevhtx]

Its a label. They are going to change no matter what over the years so who cares if it has Stan Lee or Walking Dead one on it. If we think the labels shouldn't change at all, then the grading companies should never change them over time then. Like others have said, good collectors shouldn't have the label make the decision for them on a purchase. The shiny new CGC labels look better than the older ones, so is that a problem too? Again, if its a good book, solid investment, it shouldn't.

[Sensei Ryan]

14 hours ago, ronnieramone said:

It's not so much paranoia as it is simple pattern recognition.  Netflix was no 'real' competition for Blockbuster back in the day, either.

We already saw this same trend in comic books in the 90s.  No one ever thought anyone would ever be able to compete with Marvel and DC and then Image came and proved everyone wrong.  Comic books were selling in the millions per copy in those days and no one imagined the bottom would fall out from under it.  Then it did.  Thousands of specialty stores closed up shop almost overnight.  Today, comic books sell a fraction of what they used to, the number of retailers and readers seem to continue to shrink, even as films and video games break sales records using the same exact characters.  The kind of disruption I am talking about has happened in many other industries, famously.  Kodak and Borders also come to mind, decimated by market changes they failed to anticipate and account for.  Then you have the 2007-2008 real estate crash which in retrospect seems obvious but somehow only a select few saw it coming.  CGC is by no means "Too Big to Fail" and there is substantial precedent for this kind of thing.  No paranoia train ticket required.

Also, you don't make good decisions based solely on what is currently happening, but you try to factor in what might happen in the future.  I do think vanity labels will be successful, I just don't think they will turn out to be a good decision for CGC, at least not in the long term.  Imagine if police cars, badges and uniforms were customized.  How would you recognize the police when they showed up?  CGC is like that.  It is the uniform and the standard.  If the uniform changes too much or too often, that standard can become diluted and lose its authority and perceived value.  People will look elsewhere for the authority and standardization they seek, or they will deregulate entirely and shift towards a more "fun" approach to collecting.  I also think these labels are an ethical grey area where CGC is becoming the collectible rather than merely grading it, and it damages their integrity a little bit.

Now, I can see how vanity labels on comic slabs could really shake up the status quo, and it is understandable why CGC would want to try and shape or mold that niche early on.  I just think it could backfire, that's all.  They may be opening a Pandora's Box with this and suddenly labels won't mean what they once did.  Looking at the convention scene explosion over the last several years and the rise of the blank sketch cover, I already see a trend towards more personalized "experience" collecting, which the vanity comic label fits perfectly into.  I just think that the CGC should proceed with caution and consider more carefully whether they want to take things in this direction.

 

I think that the point I was trying to make is that you've come out of nowhere with some very slippery slope and outlandish arguments about the negativities associated with custom labels...of which, there are what, like 3 different kinds period?  That comparison to the police cars, etc., makes me wonder if you think we should all make bug-out bags thanks to the custom labels.  There's paranoia and then there's extreme speculation and to me you're waaaaaaaay out in left field with this, my friend.  It also just seems oddly coincidental that you've made two posts, both seeming to highly criticize these labels, which makes me question the sincerity of your involvement here on the boards.  When people come on just to trash-talk CGC with their first and only posts it is a glaring red flag that is akin to someone trolling the boards.  And while I appreciate the history lesson, I lived through the '90's and all the comic companies seemed to jump on the bandwagons, not just the big 2.  I don't see custom labels as anything but custom labels...they're not going to become Skynet and take over the boards or anything (at least I think those little slips of paper are harmless, at any rate, unless they contain nano-technology that I'm unaware of).

No offense, I'm just stating what I think is the obvious but everyone is welcome to their opinions.  My biggest complaint with the custom labels is that some of them get 'cut off' by the hologram on the right (the Negan with Lucille one, in particular).  I wish that we could see his whole face on it so maybe they could be moved over slightly (but that's probably not doable design-wise).  So while I like them I wouldn't re-holder my books just to get them unless they were in the old holders and I just had to have one.  I think it's cool that CGC is trying something different at least for some of us collectors.