Jim Starlin hates CGC! 3 3

[Prince Namor]

30 minutes ago, jcjames said:

 

I think it would be HILARIOUS if you brought some of your Starlin SS duds to him and said you want a refund because his signature didn't add any value to your 9.6 Bat

No. No, that wouldn't be funny at all. 

Just because YOU or RMA or anyone takes (and I've done it too) an obsessive desire to collect these books and get signatures and verification and have creators sign it, doesn't mean we should gain any other value from it other than we interacted with them. 

[kav]

1 minute ago, Chuck Gower said:

No. No, that wouldn't be funny at all. 

Just because YOU or RMA or anyone takes (and I've done it too) an obsessive desire to collect these books and get signatures and verification and have creators sign it, doesn't mean we should gain any other value from it other than we interacted with them. 

You don't get to decide what other people think is hilarious.  Sorry.

[Logan510]

15 minutes ago, Chuck Gower said:

No. No, that wouldn't be funny at all. 

Just because YOU or RMA or anyone takes (and I've done it too) an obsessive desire to collect these books and get signatures and verification and have creators sign it, doesn't mean we should gain any other value from it other than we interacted with them. 

For some people that's more than enough. For others who make their living off of selling SS books, not so much I would imagine.

[Prince Namor]

1 minute ago, Logan510 said:

For some people that's more than enough. For others who make their living off of selling SS books, not so much I would imagine.

There are plenty of people here who make their living off of CGC, SS, pressing,  or selling ultra high grade books that treat the creators respectfully. 

In this instance it was CGC themselves who dropped the ball. 

[Logan510]

2 minutes ago, Chuck Gower said:

There are plenty of people here who make their living off of CGC, SS, pressing,  or selling ultra high grade books that treat the creators respectfully. 

In this instance it was CGC themselves who dropped the ball. 

Your response has nothing to do with what I said or responded to 

[kav]

16 minutes ago, Chuck Gower said:

I DIDN'T decide for him. I decided for me, Troll.

Hey, as a failed artist, maybe you could add your perspective to the conversation instead of just trolling my posts?

Oh wait, I forgot, YOU add no value to this place.

 

Wrong again.  Sorry.  I know it stings:

 

Edited May 15, 2017 by kav

[jcjames]

22 minutes ago, Chuck Gower said:

Nor will he or really care to. Most creators have always seen the obsessive collector as a bit odd and flipper as bad news.

I understand what RMA is saying but... I just don't think it will make a difference with all of this water under the bridge. 

This is education that should've happened a long time ago. 

Creators are now seeing CGC as the step child of the hobby and even one the PUBLISHERS has joined in!!!

Next move is CGC's. 

Really? I guess so but that's what drives a lot of their own business and industry. 

You make a good point about the "education" that CGC needed long ago, this has been going on for what 16 years - and many long-time artists still don't really understand it? Maybe CGC was seen as a small parasite feeding off the artist's appearances back in the day, but they're attracting more and more attention now (obviously in this case) from folks who make a lot of assumptions about SS.

As tiny of a fraction that SS is to the line of fans getting signatures, that fraction seems to be rubbing some of the artists the wrong way, but rewind 10 years - how would CGC go about "educating" so many artists about what they do, their role and what the fans want out of SS books? Word of mouth? Start with the big names and hope it trickles down? There's a LOT of artists/celebrities that would need to be "educated".

 

 

 

[Prince Namor]

4 minutes ago, jcjames said:

Really? I guess so but that's what drives a lot of their own business and industry. 

You make a good point about the "education" that CGC needed long ago, this has been going on for what 16 years - and many long-time artists still don't really understand it? Maybe CGC was seen as a small parasite feeding off the artist's appearances back in the day, but they're attracting more and more attention now (obviously in this case) from folks who make a lot of assumptions about SS.

As tiny of a fraction that SS is to the line of fans getting signatures, that fraction seems to be rubbing some of the artists the wrong way, but rewind 10 years - how would CGC go about "educating" so many artists about what they do, their role and what the fans want out of SS books? Word of mouth? Start with the big names and hope it trickles down? There's a LOT of artists/celebrities that would need to be "educated".

 

 

 

Just trying and showing they care about the creators knowing what is going on, would've gone a long way towards curbing some of the misunderstanding. 

Some of the higher profile names, were educated, usually through a third party, because... there was money to be made, but... in the convention setting, it's been seen time and time again, artists who have a lack of understanding about who all these people are running around and 'witnessing' and what not...

Mark Waid was in Indy last year for a show and two friends of mine from the store stood in line and as the first handed him his pristine copy of a comic, Waid just sort of gradually signed it and moved on, but as the second put his Flash #80 in front of him, beat up and tattered, Waid lit up.

"Now THIS is a comic someone LOVED! You must've read this a 100 times and shared it and cherished it..."

Yep. He had, and Waid dug it. 

THAT is how many creators see things. We make 'creations' for you to enjoy. Not obsess. 

[Prince Namor]

13 minutes ago, Logan510 said:

Your response has nothing to do with what I said or responded to 

I have no idea what you're going on about then?

[kav]

3 minutes ago, Chuck Gower said:

I have no idea what you're going on about then?

That never stopped you before.

[Get Marwood & I]

 

[Logan510]

9 minutes ago, Chuck Gower said:

I have no idea what you're going on about then?

What I'm "going on about"? Wow, OK

You said "Just because YOU or RMA or anyone takes (and I've done it too) an obsessive desire to collect these books and get signatures and verification and have creators sign it, doesn't mean we should gain any other value from it other than we interacted with them. "

I said: "For some people that's more than enough. For others who make their living off of selling SS books, not so much I would imagine."

 

I thought I was being pretty clear?

 

[Prince Namor]

1 minute ago, Logan510 said:

What I'm "going on about"? Wow, OK

You said "Just because YOU or RMA or anyone takes (and I've done it too) an obsessive desire to collect these books and get signatures and verification and have creators sign it, doesn't mean we should gain any other value from it other than we interacted with them. "

I said: "For some people that's more than enough. For others who make their living off of selling SS books, not so much I would imagine."

 

I thought I was being pretty clear?

 

For some it IS more than enough. Me for instance. Just not all into the SS thing at all anymore. To much more to do in the world.

But I didn't mean they CAN'T... once someone gets a signature, they can do whatever they want with it, or obsess as they please. 

Doesn't stop the outside world from thinking it might be weird though,  regardless of the explanation for it. 

[Logan510]

Just now, Chuck Gower said:

For some it IS more than enough. Me for instance. Just not all into the SS thing at all anymore. To much more to do in the world.

But I didn't mean they CAN'T... once someone gets a signature, they can do whatever they want with it, or obsess as they please. 

Doesn't stop the outside world from thinking it might be weird though,  regardless of the explanation for it. 

No argument there.

[F For Fake]

1 hour ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

That isn't accurate, and that's the very misunderstanding that is causing this conflict. The thing that is making an SS book valuable is its condition, not the signature. The signature only amplifies the value that already exists, if any.

That makes no sense. If the signature isn't what makes it valuable, why not just buy a blue label book? The condition and signature in tandem may drive the price higher, but no signature is no signature. 

 

[Logan510]

9 minutes ago, F For Fake said:

That makes no sense. If the signature isn't what makes it valuable, why not just buy a blue label book? The condition and signature in tandem may drive the price higher, but no signature is no signature. 

 

I'm not saying he has an agenda, but he does make his living by selling CGC SS books. 

[Prince Namor]

6 minutes ago, F For Fake said:

That makes no sense. If the signature isn't what makes it valuable, why not just buy a blue label book? The condition and signature in tandem may drive the price higher, but no signature is no signature. 

 

Because: the marketplace.

I've had a ton of SS books in 9.8 I sell easily and the same book in 9.6 I can't seem to give away, even though the signature is the same and the difference in condition may be almost invisible to the untrained eye. 

Its just the way the market is. 

[F For Fake]

Just now, Logan510 said:

I'm not saying he has an agenda, but he does make his living by selling CGC SS books. 

Gotcha. 

For what it's worth, I'm not trying to stir the pot. I don't like SS, so I don't buy SS. But if I did, I wouldn't complain about paying more money to creators for signing SS books. I have no problem with it at all, and I see the logic behind it 100%.  That's the end of the story for me, and I won't be persuaded that I'm wrong for thinking this way, anymore than anyone is ever going to convince RMA that he's wrong about anything ever. And I say that as someone who generally enjoys his posts and is happy he's posting. 

[revat]

16 minutes ago, F For Fake said:

That makes no sense. If the signature isn't what makes it valuable, why not just buy a blue label book? The condition and signature in tandem may drive the price higher, but no signature is no signature. 

 

you're having something modified into a way that has more utility for you the user, whether that utility is for resale, for personal use or enjoyment.  Yes the price is generally higher after that, but is that added resale value necessarily higher than the added cost of that modification?  It appears that you and some creators are automatically assuming it is.  Which while certainly true in some cases, I would argue is not accurate in many if not most cases.

 

Think of it like a car. 

If my beat old car is worth $2000 according to the age and condition in the Kelly blue book, me putting $5,000 tires on the car doesn't automatically make it worth $7,000, and certainly doesn't make it worth 8 or 9,000

But If I had an original 57 corvette in great condition worth $25K, and I paid $5,000 for the ORIGINAL tires, it might make the car worth $40,000 for resale.

I'm saying there's far too many different motives and variations to assume that all CGC SS results in any type of profit.  Certainly it does sometimes, but even those profits vary wildly, and should be measured against risk of damage or lower grades.

Even for some of those facilitators like beachbum or rich henn who do make significant money providing for presales, they do a ton of work finding the high grade copies, which is for the most part what they're being compensated for.

 

Edited May 15, 2017 by revat

[Logan510]

5 minutes ago, Chuck Gower said:

Because: the marketplace.

I've had a ton of SS books in 9.8 I sell easily and the same book in 9.6 I can't seem to give away, even though the signature is the same and the difference in condition may be almost invisible to the untrained eye. 

Its just the way the market is. 

Same holds true for a lot of blue label books. If you're going to gamble, sometimes you lose right?