POLL: how would BA12 cover do at heritage? 2 2

[Pete Marino]

5 minutes ago, SquareChaos said:

So the character's actual name didn't make any of these lists? 

As far as I can tell, the only reason she is popular is because of the way she's dressed. In Suicide Squad, she is basically a vapid bimbo that requires rescue - pretty hard to build a cultural icon out of that.

It's because that search is only for movies.  So, she was the main part of that movie.

 

The other lists have her name.  That's cherry picking at its best.

[delekkerste]

6 minutes ago, SquareChaos said:

So the character's actual name didn't make any of these lists? 

As far as I can tell, the only reason she is popular is because of the way she's dressed. In Suicide Squad, she is basically a vapid bimbo that requires rescue - pretty hard to build a cultural icon out of that.

EXACTLY...Harley Quinn didn't exactly save Suicide Squad.  

How Suicide Squad Messed Up Harley Quinn

[SquareChaos]

Just now, Pete Marino said:

It's because that search is only for movies.  So, she was the main part of that movie.

 

The other lists have her name.  That's cherry picking at its best.

I went to the links you provided and didn't get any responses when I did a find in the page for Harley  

 

I didn't understand what you were attempting to say until you mentioned it was all about the movies.

[Pete Marino]

Just now, delekkerste said:

The star of the Suicide Squad movie was window dressing?  I think Will Smith would beg to differ!

I think we need be careful about conflating Suicide Squad with Harley Quinn.  Few outside of the comic community had any idea about what Suicide Squad was about.  So, a tentpole movie comes out starring Will Smith and the hot chick from Wolf of Wall Street?  Of course people are going to Google it.  Does it mean that it's all about Harley Quinn?  Not to me it doesn't.  Not that Harley isn't big.  She is.  But not Deadpool big.  Deadpool was the 7th most popular Google search overall for 2016.  At his peak in 2016 vs. Harley's peak in 2016, he got 4x as many searches as Harley did (looking at Google Trends - excluding generic Suicide Squad results).  It's as I've been saying:  if you are the titular character of a well-received blockbuster movie, your Q rating will simply be much higher than if you were a supporting, non-titular character in a movie that was widely panned.

I looked at the same data, but if you go beyond peaks they are hovering in a similar area on google.

 

She's not Deadpool, but she's the 2nd biggest comic property right now.  Right on par with Wolverine.

[zhamlau]

So, in comparison NM 98 Cover sells for more than BA 12 cover right? NM 98 being 200k+, BA being 100-125k? That feel right?

[Pete Marino]

1 minute ago, SquareChaos said:

I went to the links you provided and didn't get any responses when I did a find in the page for Harley  

 

I didn't understand what you were attempting to say until you mentioned it was all about the movies.

I'm saying she's one of the biggest comic properties in the world right now.  Did you not scroll down to see the links for 2 years strait she's the most popular Halloween costume as well?

[SquareChaos]

1 minute ago, Pete Marino said:

I'm saying she's one of the biggest comic properties in the world right now.  Did you not scroll down to see the links for 2 years strait she's the most popular Halloween costume as well?

We're not talking about comic books...

[Pete Marino]

Just now, SquareChaos said:

We're not talking about comic books...

i have no clue what you're saying.  We are talking about character, properties, and their popularity and where they fit in to pop culture.

i have no horse in this race, but you guys are so out of touch if you don't think Harley Quinn is one of the biggest comic properties in the world right now.  Is she Deadpool?  sure, no, but to put her in that same tier isn't out of order.

[SquareChaos]

1 minute ago, Pete Marino said:

i have no clue what you're saying.  We are talking about character, properties, and their popularity and where they fit in to pop culture.

i have no horse in this race, but you guys are so out of touch if you don't think Harley Quinn is one of the biggest comic properties in the world right now.  Is she Deadpool?  sure, no, but to put her in that same tier isn't out of order.

If anyone walked into this thread and made the claim "Harley Quinn is one of the biggest comic properties in the world (right now)" I would agree with them.

The entire problem I have is that people are maker other, grander claims. Hopefully that makes my point clear, I'm not trying to be difficult about this.

[Pete Marino]

1 minute ago, SquareChaos said:

If anyone walked into this thread and made the claim "Harley Quinn is one of the biggest comic properties in the world (right now)" I would agree with them.

The entire problem I have is that people are maker other, grander claims. Hopefully that makes my point clear, I'm not trying to be difficult about this.

Others have though, Gene has said that directly, not going to sift through the thread to find it, but he commented about how: few outside the comic hobby know who she is, and that no one in his building would know the character (i'm paraphrasing so if i missed the gist, feel free to correct me)

BA12 cover will command a huge premium if it ever went to auction, is it 125k?  250k?  I have no clue, both numbers are basically the same to my mind, because they're so out of my reality for comic art.  But to say it'll do worse than NYX cover i think is underselling the character in a huge way.  And I feel like a lot of people here don't see how she's permeated more than just the comic book world.

That was my point, unless only comic book fans go out for Halloween.  

[PhilipB2k17]

13 minutes ago, Pete Marino said:

i have no clue what you're saying.  We are talking about character, properties, and their popularity and where they fit in to pop culture.

i have no horse in this race, but you guys are so out of touch if you don't think Harley Quinn is one of the biggest comic properties in the world right now.  Is she Deadpool?  sure, no, but to put her in that same tier isn't out of order.

I think Deadpool is more popular in the comic book community than Harley, but Harley has more break out appeal outside of that.  Case in point: "Harley" is rocketing up the baby naming charts. https://www.babycenter.com/baby-names-harley-6795.htm And it coincides with her introduction as a character, and then explodes with the publicity for Suicide Squad.

Even the name "Harley-Quinn" is exploding.

Granted, nobody is going to name their kid "Deadpool," but still. Comic books are still a male dominated hobby, so it makes sense that people think Deadpool is more popular. But, from my point of view, I think the NM 98 cover is awful from an artistic standpoint anyway, and I think the BA12 cover is more aesthetically pleasing. But that's me. I am not a Leifeld fan. So, of the two, I'd rather have BA12.

Edited May 24, 2017 by PhilipB2k17

[delekkerste]

 

1 hour ago, Pete Marino said:

Others have though, Gene has said that directly, not going to sift through the thread to find it, but he commented about how: few outside the comic hobby know who she is, and that no one in his building would know the character (i'm paraphrasing so if i missed the gist, feel free to correct me)

BA12 cover will command a huge premium if it ever went to auction, is it 125k?  250k?  I have no clue, both numbers are basically the same to my mind, because they're so out of my reality for comic art.  But to say it'll do worse than NYX cover i think is underselling the character in a huge way.  And I feel like a lot of people here don't see how she's permeated more than just the comic book world.

That was my point, unless only comic book fans go out for Halloween.  

I didn't say that no one outside the hobby or in my building will have heard of Harley Quinn.  I am saying that she does not have the household name recognition of a Deadpool, though.  Deadpool and Harley are both hot comic properties now.  But, neither are as well known as Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, Spider-Man, the Hulk, Iron Man, Wolverine, etc.  Though, by virtue of having been the TITULAR character of a blockbuster well-liked movie, Deadpool is closer to breaking into that other tier than Harley is.  

No one would be talking about $125K or $150K for BA12 if it wasn't for the NYX #3 result.  People saw the biggest player in the entire OA hobby offer $50K for it recently and weren't like "Hey, dummy, you're the biggest buyer of American OA on the planet, why are you only offering 1/3rd of FMV?"  I bet more than a few people wouldn't have even pegged NM #98 at $125-$150K two weeks ago either, and few would have said it was $200K+ (I would have guessed somewhere in between, personally). 

So, basically, we had a big outlier result in NYX #3 and suddenly everyone is doing what they did after the DKR #3 and ASM #328 sales:  consciously or subconsciously revaluing certain pieces higher and rationalizing various things to make sense in light of that sale.  When, for now, the NYX #3 remains an outlier data point (one sale does not a New Normal make, sorry).  If BA 12 sold for "only" $70K, that wouldn't be "underselling the character in a huge way" anymore than McSpidey #1 "only" fetching $358K was underselling it vs. the ASM #328 .  In fact, if it BA 12 had sold for $71.7K, say, in the February auction, few would be saying what a great deal the buyer got.  

 

1 hour ago, zhamlau said:

So, in comparison NM 98 Cover sells for more than BA 12 cover right? NM 98 being 200k+, BA being 100-125k? That feel right?

If you were setting a betting line now, you'd probably say that's right around where the over/under would be.  Not necessarily where these pieces SHOULD be valued, or where they would actually end up at auction, but if you were taking bets, you probably get roughly equal betting action around those levels I'm guessing.

Edited May 24, 2017 by delekkerste

[tfish]

2 hours ago, PhilipB2k17 said:

Comic Connect has the first Drax appearance (the Starlin splash from Iron man 55) in their most recent auction. I'm predicting $50,000 for that. 

I'd say the Harley Quinn BA12 cover would go in the $250,000 range. Then again, is it comparable to the Hulk 180 Wolverine Cameo? It's also a cover. So, it wouldn't shock me if it went up into the half million range.

so what say you on Iron Man #55 cover?

[BCarter27]

I think all three aforementioned Harley covers could command huge prices. There is no way BA12 doesn't sell for more than every other cover discussed in these threads. The president of Warner Brothers should just buy it as a gift for Margot Robbie. :-)

The WD 1 cover is tricky because there is as much hate for that show as love outside the comics world. But worry not, AMC will keep making that cash cow for as long as they can. That show will go twenty years. It costs pennies to make and they can rotate the cast and location any time they want. If the show does get past the 10-year mark, owning the starting point for that franchise might attract some serious outside attention.

I think Sandman will become more and more a fondly-remembered niche book since it doesn't seem to be adaptable to other media. Its covers should stay steady within the OA collecting community. But McKean has some crossover to the contemporary art market, no?

Preacher kind of lives and dies on this next season. The first season felt like a trial run. If they can implement the long-term stories that are in the comics, the show could hang in there. Then, the art could get a bump. But I don't know if the show itself has a lot of crossover potential even if it goes 4-5 seasons. It doesn't have as a clear a concept as WD. That is why it is a quirky summer experiment show.

I think when you are buying a historically-important piece, the art quality, artist, etc. is secondary. Are there "better" Adams covers than GL 76? Maybe. But the piece is incredible because it is a hallmark of an entire era.

That being said, here is a nice testament to Mike Parobeck's terrific art-

http://www.cbr.com/mike-parobeck-revisited/

Who was his rep? Anyone bought or sold a BA cover? Was it from the Parobeck estate? Does Rick Burchett know where BA 12 is?

[NinjaSealed]

2 hours ago, SquareChaos said:

I don't get why everyone thinks HQ is such a huge cultural phenomenon - makes me wonder if I'm the one out of touch 

One of the best ways to get a snapshot of pop culture, whenever you are at the mall pop into Hot Topic and looks what properties they have front and center in the store. In general you will see Star Wars, Harley/Joker/Batman, Deadpool and Attack on Titan. 

[BCarter27]

Looks like Albert Moy had a Batman 11 pg at one point in 2001 and a few others in 2002-

https://web.archive.org/web/20010123233500fw_/http://www.albertmoy.com:80/cart.htm

https://web.archive.org/web/20020205094716/http://www.albertmoy.com:80/cart.htm

Nothing on Spencer Beck's site in 2005-

https://web.archive.org/web/20050408055330/http://www.theartistschoice.com:80/

[chrisco37]

28 minutes ago, NinjaSealed said:

2 hours ago, SquareChaos said:

I don't get why everyone thinks HQ is such a huge cultural phenomenon - makes me wonder if I'm the one out of touch 

One of the best ways to get a snapshot of pop culture, whenever you are at the mall pop into Hot Topic and looks what properties they have front and center in the store. In general you will see Star Wars, Harley/Joker/Batman, Deadpool and Attack on Titan.

Yep.  She is huge.  As someone noted earlier, really big with the younger girls.  My daughter is 9 (no, she didn't see Suicide Squad!) and loves Harley.  She loves all the
"DC Superhero Girls" (yes, Harley is one of them).   The books, the dolls, the animated features.  All of it. 

Leading up to Xmas she wanted the dolls.  She wanted Harley the most out of them (including WW and Supergirl).   Harley was the "hardest" to track down. 

I think the BA12 cover would get 100K easy.  I also think the other 2 Harley covers (Mad Love and Alex Ross) are better, but don't know that either would fetch more than 12.  

[delekkerste]

27 minutes ago, BCarter27 said:

I think all three aforementioned Harley covers could command huge prices. There is no way BA12 doesn't sell for more than every other cover discussed in these threads.

IMO, there's no way NM 98 doesn't sell for more than BA 12 at the present time.  So, we're at an impasse.  

I also think TWD 1 should be valued much more than BA 12.  I think it probably also sells for more than BA 12, but, I wouldn't go as far as to say there's "no way" it wouldn't.  It is the most important comic book of the past 20 years.  I don't get these arguments that suggest that TWD 1 (the comic book) or the OA will implode once the series ends (as others have argued).  Because people will just forget about it the day after it happens?  Because people will forget about watching the show week-in and week-out (during the season) for a decade?  Because, even though all good things must come to an end, people will forget that it was the biggest show on cable TV as well as one of the most successful and longest running indie comic titles, one of the truly transcendental comic properties ever?  Because once it's cancelled it can never come back again?  Even if the show ended tomorrow, TWD #1 is already a first ballot Comic Book Hall of Famer.  

Not to mention, TWD 1 was actually drawn by a co-creator of the franchise and the comic series spawned the TV show, not the other way around.  

 

[delekkerste]

3 minutes ago, chrisco37 said:

Yep.  She is huge.  As someone noted earlier, really big with the younger girls.  My daughter is 9 (no, she didn't see Suicide Squad!) and loves Harley.  She loves all the
"DC Superhero Girls" (yes, Harley is one of them).   The books, the dolls, the animated features.  All of it. 

 Daughter of Comic Book Fan Likes Comic Book Characters  

 

[chrisco37]

20 minutes ago, delekkerste said:

 Daughter of Comic Book Fan Likes Comic Book Characters  

 

  I try my best. 

But she, like her mother, refers to the actual books as "your stupid comic books".