theCapraAegagrus Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 49 minutes ago, DANNiE D said: ...Moving forward into 2021 I think CGC is going to have to make some serious moves to offer competing services (ie authenticate signatures already) and improve user online experience on their site... In other words if Beckett can tighten up CBCS; and CGC dosent progress into the 21st Century already they will get left behind... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revat Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 1 hour ago, theCapraAegagrus said: 2 hours ago, DANNiE D said: ...Moving forward into 2021 I think CGC is going to have to make some serious moves to offer competing services (ie authenticate signatures already) and improve user online experience on their site... In other words if Beckett can tighten up CBCS; and CGC dosent progress into the 21st Century already they will get left behind... I think CGC has already made significant moves by having more in-house signings, which appear to be quite popular and indicate their commitment to "witnessed" signatures. For the record, I would say "authenticating old signatures" is more 20th century, and "live witnessing of signatures" feels more 21st century. I do have a suggestion for in-house signings, CGC could offer an optional photo/video of the creator holding or signing your book, for a (probably significant) fee of course. Or the ability to pay to watch the livestreaming of the signatures. For a super premium, they could do a full framed mounting of photo with slabbed book (this may be going to far). theCapraAegagrus and Keys_Collector 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffro. Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 No doubt about it. This has become my favorite board forum. It's just shnuts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keys_Collector Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 1 hour ago, revat said: I think CGC has already made significant moves by having more in-house signings, which appear to be quite popular and indicate their commitment to "witnessed" signatures. For the record, I would say "authenticating old signatures" is more 20th century, and "live witnessing of signatures" feels more 21st century. I do have a suggestion for in-house signings, CGC could offer an optional photo/video of the creator holding or signing your book, for a (probably significant) fee of course. Or the ability to pay to watch the livestreaming of the signatures. For a super premium, they could do a full framed mounting of photo with slabbed book (this may be going to far). Agreed with the bolded statement. Companies should take lessons learned from authenticating older signatures that were found to be fake. CGC has been posting live videos and recorded videos of their signing sessions while also calling some fans and answering fan questions. I think that's a great idea too for a fee of a creator holding their book. 2 minutes ago, Dolt said: But CBCS doesn't have problems with Newton rings or SCS, so I guess it's a push. Fair point DANNiE D 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DANNiE D Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 1 hour ago, Keys_Collector said: Agreed with the bolded statement. Companies should take lessons learned from authenticating older signatures that were found to be fake. CGC has been posting live videos and recorded videos of their signing sessions while also calling some fans and answering fan questions. I think that's a great idea too for a fee of a creator holding their book. Fair point I agree too; more so the fact that I have Videos of the artists live-streaming one of a kind pieces and CGC wont grade them as authentic... Considering the whole This Century - That Century jive... Which brings the full circle point of; why dont they authenticate previously signed or one of a kind pieces which have verified proof of being made by said artist..? ie sketch covers and original art pieces... Also the fact of now deceased artists signed pieces; which is something Beckett has been doing for at least 30+ years now... So I cant see or understand why in this whole 21st Century, that verification of signatures isnt in a compiled database somewhere by now.... There is plenty of items out here with CoA's directly from the Artists or from some sort of sales campaign; comics and other memorabilia is out here wanting encapsulation services & authentication services offered by both... We can pick a part the pluses & minuses of each; both need better CS support and website progression and product knowledge and availability... Call me a newb; but how do I know about Graded Art and find 13x19 graded items for sale..? And CGC CS knows nothing about it..? If we come to the forums for answers and no one from CGC officially even follows up on these threads; that just proves my point of them lacking customer interaction in the "21st Century".... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revat Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 14 minutes ago, DANNiE D said: I agree too; more so the fact that I have Videos of the artists live-streaming one of a kind pieces and CGC wont grade them as authentic... Considering the whole This Century - That Century jive... Which brings the full circle point of; why dont they authenticate previously signed or one of a kind pieces which have verified proof of being made by said artist..? ie sketch covers and original art pieces... Also the fact of now deceased artists signed pieces; which is something Beckett has been doing for at least 30+ years now... So I cant see or understand why in this whole 21st Century, that verification of signatures isnt in a compiled database somewhere by now.... There is plenty of items out here with CoA's directly from the Artists or from some sort of sales campaign; comics and other memorabilia is out here wanting encapsulation services & authentication services offered by both... We can pick a part the pluses & minuses of each; both need better CS support and website progression and product knowledge and availability... Call me a newb; but how do I know about Graded Art and find 13x19 graded items for sale..? And CGC CS knows nothing about it..? If we come to the forums for answers and no one from CGC officially even follows up on these threads; that just proves my point of them lacking customer interaction in the "21st Century".... I think you're conflating multiple issues. Could CGC customer service be generally more user friendly and 'real-time' with respect to interface and transparency and technology? Of course they can, and that is a legitimate concern about being modern, and they've been allowed to skate for too long because of a lack of competition. Are there other issues with efficiency and even mechanical issues like newton rings? Yes. But while of course everything can be interrelated if you look hard enough, these are operational issues, like if the Yankees laundry service keeps shrinking the team baseball uniforms or the players paychecks keep getting delayed due to administrative software error. The authentication of signatures is more of an on-field decision, and you're choosing between a fast (maybe the fastest catcher ever), athletic, exciting catcher (authenticating sigs) who is average and calling pitching games and defense, and catcher who is an average hitter but best in the league at defense and calling games (CGC SS). If you're the World Champion and have a world class pitching staff, the defense and pitch calling matter a million times more. But if you're a scrub team with few stars and fewer wins, selling tickets by having the fastest catcher in history might be more important. Assume for a second you are in CGC SS management. You've likely been there for a long time, and probably helped build the program into what it is, which is for better or worse the undisputed leader in comic signatures + comic grading. You probably think and have thought that the key attribute of the program is the absolute certainty of a witnessed signature, and the overall trust and reliability of CGC. Reputation and trust are everything. So ask yourself what the case is for adding signature authentication service would be vs continuing on without it. And I'm sure you don't make the change unless you are overwhelmingly sure its worth it. Because you sacrifice everything you've built with CGC SS. So to change the mind of CGC management, one would have to overcome a LOT to convince them to make the switch. Which is not say that I know for sure if its a good idea or not, just there would have to be hard evidence of an overwhelming reason to change it up, and I just don't see that evidence being there. Avi, Keys_Collector and DANNiE D 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avi Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 1 hour ago, DANNiE D said: I agree too; more so the fact that I have Videos of the artists live-streaming one of a kind pieces and CGC wont grade them as authentic... Considering the whole This Century - That Century jive... Which brings the full circle point of; why dont they authenticate previously signed or one of a kind pieces which have verified proof of being made by said artist..? ie sketch covers and original art pieces... Also the fact of now deceased artists signed pieces; which is something Beckett has been doing for at least 30+ years now... So I cant see or understand why in this whole 21st Century, that verification of signatures isnt in a compiled database somewhere by now.... There is plenty of items out here with CoA's directly from the Artists or from some sort of sales campaign; comics and other memorabilia is out here wanting encapsulation services & authentication services offered by both... We can pick a part the pluses & minuses of each; both need better CS support and website progression and product knowledge and availability... Call me a newb; but how do I know about Graded Art and find 13x19 graded items for sale..? And CGC CS knows nothing about it..? If we come to the forums for answers and no one from CGC officially even follows up on these threads; that just proves my point of them lacking customer interaction in the "21st Century".... You also just seem mad you couldnt get an answer right away when you called about the poster thing. This is a public forum not a CS forum and you just have different expectations. Also have you tried posting in the ask cgc section? https://www.cgccomics.com/boards/forum/23-ask-cgc/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobotski Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 If you have signed books with COAs and you feel (a) they should be at par with the CGC SS, or (b) do not like the result of what those books will end up with based on CGC grading standards, then CGC slabbing is not for you. The CGC SS program has been around for a while and it works, so to modify it based on what you think it should be is giving disservice/disrespect to those collectors and books who have been around from the start. Keys_Collector, theCapraAegagrus and steveinthecity 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revat Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 21 minutes ago, bobotski said: If you have signed books with COAs and you feel (a) they should be at par with the CGC SS, or (b) do not like the result of what those books will end up with based on CGC grading standards, then CGC slabbing is not for you. The CGC SS program has been around for a while and it works, so to modify it based on what you think it should be is giving disservice/disrespect to those collectors and books who have been around from the start. I don't see it as disrespect (although it certainly might be), but more a lack of understanding of what provides CGC SS value DANNiE D 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DANNiE D Posted September 3, 2020 Share Posted September 3, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, revat said: I don't see it as disrespect (although it certainly might be), but more a lack of understanding of what provides CGC SS value I frankly find no value in CGC grading standards that is for sure; and there is plenty of review videos of people sending in books that should grade at a 7 are getting 9.2s from CGC... So their "reputation" on what they've built is inflated #s in grading... The CGC case is not better than the Competition and their other casing issues... Witnessed Signings are almost always done by a 4th party "facilitator" and yes we all know its based on "the trust" system... So again; I have Videos of my items being made and I have messages and COA's all the same things that CGC does minus the vacuum sealed inner and hard shell case.... To me there is no value other than having items encapsulated; I dont care what CGC says they think is a 9.8 Certified Witness Yellow label gimmick; I know my pieces are real and what they are... Its no different than if CGC (3rd Party) or their Facilitator (4th Party) sees the piece being made... Again with the shift from in person Cons to online cons and the times changing; somethings are going to have to give here in the near future... No one is saying that CGC has to change their "witnessed" signing model (I personally dont like all the added 4th party facilitator fees) at all; what I think a lot of people feel should be added is them actually doing something to acknowledge authentic/real signed, sketched, remarked, or art pieces as what they really are... I dont care about their BS yellow label at all really... I dont think people should be deprived authenticity simply because CGC or one of their facilitator minions palms arent getting greased in the process... I get the whole witnessed BS; but I aint having my Original Pages of Deceased artists with some label on it that doesnt reflect it for what it REALLY is... Which comes back to what sizes and cases for the 21st Century are really available.... And the reality is if none of us demand a better experience for OUR Collectibles; these people as they are will remain complacent... As a consumer; I dont think its too much to ask of a company that prides itself on grading 10s of thousands of books a year not to already step up to the plate to modernize their experience... I dont think its too much to ask to have a website with up to date information and CS reps with same... You can know more about the status of your Pizza and interact with its being made process today more than you can manage your comic orders online..? Thats sad... Edited September 3, 2020 by DANNiE D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theCapraAegagrus Posted September 3, 2020 Share Posted September 3, 2020 14 hours ago, DANNiE D said: I agree too; more so the fact that I have Videos of the artists live-streaming one of a kind pieces and CGC wont grade them as authentic... Considering the whole This Century - That Century jive... Which brings the full circle point of; why dont they authenticate previously signed or one of a kind pieces which have verified proof of being made by said artist..? ie sketch covers and original art pieces... Also the fact of now deceased artists signed pieces; which is something Beckett has been doing for at least 30+ years now... So I cant see or understand why in this whole 21st Century, that verification of signatures isnt in a compiled database somewhere by now.... There is plenty of items out here with CoA's directly from the Artists or from some sort of sales campaign; comics and other memorabilia is out here wanting encapsulation services & authentication services offered by both... We can pick a part the pluses & minuses of each; both need better CS support and website progression and product knowledge and availability... Call me a newb; but how do I know about Graded Art and find 13x19 graded items for sale..? And CGC CS knows nothing about it..? If we come to the forums for answers and no one from CGC officially even follows up on these threads; that just proves my point of them lacking customer interaction in the "21st Century".... Guess you never heard of Deep Fake tech? Define "verified proof". It's already been explained why they won't do this. Chain of Custody and all... I personally don't give 2 licks what BGS does. COA? That's a hefty assumption when your use of "slab" includes items that are in fact not encapsulated. I'm sure you confused the Hel out of CGC's Customer Service team with your incorrect terminology. Bad idea: Sign up to the boards to ignorantly flame the host. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theCapraAegagrus Posted September 3, 2020 Share Posted September 3, 2020 8 hours ago, DANNiE D said: 1. I frankly find no value in CGC grading standards that is for sure; and there is plenty of review videos of people sending in books that should grade at a 7 are getting 9.2s from CGC... So their "reputation" on what they've built is inflated #s in grading... 2. The CGC case is not better than the Competition and their other casing issues... Witnessed Signings are almost always done by a 4th party "facilitator" and yes we all know its based on "the trust" system... 3. So again; I have Videos of my items being made and I have messages and COA's all the same things that CGC does minus the vacuum sealed inner and hard shell case.... 4. To me there is no value other than having items encapsulated; I dont care what CGC says they think is a 9.8 Certified Witness Yellow label gimmick; I know my pieces are real and what they are... Its no different than if CGC (3rd Party) or their Facilitator (4th Party) sees the piece being made... 5. Again with the shift from in person Cons to online cons and the times changing; somethings are going to have to give here in the near future... No one is saying that CGC has to change their "witnessed" signing model (I personally dont like all the added 4th party facilitator fees) at all; what I think a lot of people feel should be added is them actually doing something to acknowledge authentic/real signed, sketched, remarked, or art pieces as what they really are... I dont care about their BS yellow label at all really... 6. I dont think people should be deprived authenticity simply because CGC or one of their facilitator minions palms arent getting greased in the process... I get the whole witnessed BS; but I aint having my Original Pages of Deceased artists with some label on it that doesnt reflect it for what it REALLY is... 7. Which comes back to what sizes and cases for the 21st Century are really available.... And the reality is if none of us demand a better experience for OUR Collectibles; these people as they are will remain complacent... 8. As a consumer; I dont think its too much to ask of a company that prides itself on grading 10s of thousands of books a year not to already step up to the plate to modernize their experience... I dont think its too much to ask to have a website with up to date information and CS reps with same... 9. You can know more about the status of your Pizza and interact with its being made process today more than you can manage your comic orders online..? Thats sad... 1. CGC is not an authority on grading. CBCS is not an authority on grading. PGX is not an authority on grading. Grading is subjective. It's been around for decades. Any yahoo on YouTube can disagree with any professional grade. Opinions are subjective. You don't even know what CGC's grading standards are. They aren't published. 2. Incorrect. 3. That's not how it works. 4. Authenticity matters - and CGC authenticates. Do you professionally know how to detect restoration? It's not a matter of "think". It's a matter of "do". It's not a gimmick; It's a product and a service. 5. Have you heard of the Qualified label? Send in your unverified COAs and get 'em. 6. CGC is authentic. You may want to look up the dictionary definition. 7. This makes literally no sense. 8. As someone who worked in Customer Service for 5 years, since your information makes no sense, I can basically guarantee that the answer(s) they gave you were the best they could do with how you posed your question(s). 9. You can't, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seanfingh Posted September 3, 2020 Share Posted September 3, 2020 This thread is funny - "I want more money for my "authentic" stuff. CGC = more money. CGC won't authenticate my stuff. CGC sucks. What are all these toys doing in my baby carriage? I'm gonna throw them out." Just do a shallow dive into the depths of fraud that took place in sports autographs with "authentication" and "COAs." theCapraAegagrus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybuck43 Posted September 3, 2020 Share Posted September 3, 2020 4 minutes ago, seanfingh said: This thread is funny - "I want more money for my "authentic" stuff. CGC = more money. CGC won't authenticate my stuff. CGC sucks. What are all these toys doing in my baby carriage? I'm gonna throw them out." Just do a shallow dive into the depths of fraud that took place in sports autographs with "authentication" and "COAs." Not just sports autographs. Can anyone besides @Buzzetta tell me why there's no way this "Kevin Eastman" signature is authentic? https://www.ebay.com/itm/Teenage-Mutant-Ninja-Turtles-3-2nd-print-Signed-Kevin-Eastman-With-Certification/114354197175?_trksid=p2485497.m4902.l9144 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William-James88 Posted September 3, 2020 Share Posted September 3, 2020 Man, this thread is nuts and the arguments I read sound ridiculous. And there really doesn't need to be any arguing since we now have 2 legitimate grading companies that offer different services, which should please all fans. If you preffer CGC, get your sig witnessed by CGC. If you can't or have a presigned book, then go for the competitor. Easy peasy. theCapraAegagrus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DANNiE D Posted September 3, 2020 Share Posted September 3, 2020 3 hours ago, Dolt said: These boards have been here 18 years and this was never promised and has never been the case. Why would you think CGC answers questions officially here? Because CGC owns the URL and Hosts the Forums... LoL Almost all major brand companies have Board Ambassadors or Official employees that respond in Brand/Company owned forums... But my bad like I said they have a website from when the Internet was built on just HTML before Flash media was even being used and this Company again prides itself on Grading 10s of Thousands of Coins and Comics each years but still has an antiquated website going into 2021 in the 21 Century..?! Come on man get off their Johnson and grow some of your own already; or take some viagra and stand for something bruh... To settle for CS, Old Fashioned Methods (ie paper forms & lacking website) and lack of updating their own website to reflect current products and services and same with their service reps its no wonder they've gotten away with this for so long... These companies are playing comic nerds as push overs; and I aint neither; these companies need to step up into the 21st century; period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan. Posted September 3, 2020 Share Posted September 3, 2020 16 minutes ago, DANNiE D said: Because CGC owns the URL and Hosts the Forums... LoL Almost all major brand companies have Board Ambassadors or Official employees that respond in Brand/Company owned forums... But my bad like I said they have a website from when the Internet was built on just HTML before Flash media was even being used and this Company again prides itself on Grading 10s of Thousands of Coins and Comics each years but still has an antiquated website going into 2021 in the 21 Century..?! Come on man get off their Johnson and grow some of your own already; or take some viagra and stand for something bruh... To settle for CS, Old Fashioned Methods (ie paper forms & lacking website) and lack of updating their own website to reflect current products and services and same with their service reps its no wonder they've gotten away with this for so long... These companies are playing comic nerds as push overs; and I aint neither; these companies need to step up into the 21st century; period. Do you have a YouTube channel I can subscribe to? DANNiE D 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bc Posted September 3, 2020 Share Posted September 3, 2020 13 minutes ago, DANNiE D said: Because CGC owns the URL and Hosts the Forums... LoL Almost all major brand companies have Board Ambassadors or Official employees that respond in Brand/Company owned forums... There is a forum called "Ask CGC" available if you wish to interact with them. 15 minutes ago, DANNiE D said: To settle for CS, Old Fashioned Methods (ie paper forms & lacking website) Some of those "Old Fashioned Methods" are required to ensure a valid Chain of Custody, which is critical when trying to mitigate risks with potentially valuable collectibles. Stay conic! -bc Buzzetta and theCapraAegagrus 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theCapraAegagrus Posted September 3, 2020 Share Posted September 3, 2020 When someone says, "bruh", you can take everything they say with a massive grain of salt. DANNiE D 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DANNiE D Posted September 3, 2020 Share Posted September 3, 2020 6 minutes ago, Ryan. said: Do you have a YouTube channel I can subscribe to? We're working on it..!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
