what would you do if you found the mile high collection 10 years ago?

[Ares]

As a collector, I would definately take what I like and sell the rest

 

But I cant believe he got the collection for such little money. Even if you gather 10,000 of the crappiest moderns today, I would think you would probrably pay more than $2,000.

'

 

He had to know they were valuable and if he bought them knowing they were worth many time more than he paid for them he could be criminally liable for fraud..

 

 

For example if your bought a painting for $1000 knowing it was worth $1,000,000 then sold it for the million the person you bought it from could sue you for fraud.

 

I find this very hard to believe. Please post a link or something to add something to this statement...as it is now I am not buying it..Getting a good deal on something is makes you a fraud?

 

I will try. I remember a Case in Canada where an art collector was at a garage Sale.

The sellers thought the painting was worthless and sold it cheap. The collector bought it and sold it for a large sum.

 

The home owner sued and won and the judge held that the collector knew it was valuable and had a duty to inform the seller they were making a mistake selling so low. This does not mean if you and I buy something and later we find out it was valuable we can get sued. But a professional cannot claim he did not know the painting was valuable because its his job to scan for these itmes.

[drbanner]

As a collector, I would definately take what I like and sell the rest

 

But I cant believe he got the collection for such little money. Even if you gather 10,000 of the crappiest moderns today, I would think you would probrably pay more than $2,000.

'

 

He had to know they were valuable and if he bought them knowing they were worth many time more than he paid for them he could be criminally liable for fraud..

 

 

For example if your bought a painting for $1000 knowing it was worth $1,000,000 then sold it for the million the person you bought it from could sue you for fraud.

 

I find this very hard to believe. Please post a link or something to add something to this statement...as it is now I am not buying it..Getting a good deal on something is makes you a fraud?

 

I will try. I remember a Case in Canada where an art collector was at a garage Sale.

The sellers thought the painting was worthless and sold it cheap. The collector bought it and sold it for a large sum.

 

The home owner sued and won and the judge held that the collector knew it was valuable and had a duty to inform the seller they were making a mistake selling so low. This does not mean if you and I buy something and later we find out it was valuable we can get sued. But a professional cannot claim he did not know the painting was valuable because its his job to scan for these itmes.

 

I thought I read that the Church family did indeed try to sue Chuckie over this for the reasons outlined above, and lost? There's been some hefty threads about this over the years, but perhaps some creative searching could find the original discussions...

[FFB]

As a collector, I would definately take what I like and sell the rest

 

But I cant believe he got the collection for such little money. Even if you gather 10,000 of the crappiest moderns today, I would think you would probrably pay more than $2,000.

'

 

He had to know they were valuable and if he bought them knowing they were worth many time more than he paid for them he could be criminally liable for fraud..

 

 

For example if your bought a painting for $1000 knowing it was worth $1,000,000 then sold it for the million the person you bought it from could sue you for fraud.

 

Wrong.

[PedigreeMan]

There's WAY too much bad information floating around this thread, so I suggest anyone who hasn't done so go here and keep reading until you've reach the end (or your eyes become permanently crossed).

 

Love him or hate him, Chuck's version of the find is the only "authoritative" claim we have of it, so we must take whatever he says at face value. In all reality, I have yet to hear any convincing evidence from anyone in the hobby that contradicts anything Chuck says in the above articles. Until the Church heirs come forward with their version, this should be the official account.

 

As for the ten cent a book price he purpotedly paid? Comics Between the Panels mentioned a friend of Chuck's (can't recall his name off the top of my head and I don't have the book with me at the moment) who gave that figure. I have yet to hear any hard figures for how much Chuck gave the heirs for Edgar's "worthless" art reference files and personal effects.

 

The basement of the Chuch house has 700 sq. ft. of finished space. Between the comics and Edgar's other paper ephemera, this entire area was overflowing with stuff. The rest of the two bedroom, one bath house is 786 sq. ft. Think about that for a second. For a number of decades, Edgar had co-opted half of this tiny dwelling for himself. I'm certain there was no love-lost on the part of his kids for these comic books. Throw in the added stress of actually having to get rid of all this junk, and anyone can see how this four color treasure trove was actually a huge albatross around the family's neck. Is it any wonder they jumped at any money that was offered to them?

 

As for what I would do if I was in Chuck's shoes circa 1995? I'd buy the house outright with all of its contents, paying whatever the heirs asked. If necessary, I'd sell a key or some non-exciting runs to pay for it. Then I'd go dive into the closet and swim around the books like Uncle Scrooge in his money pit.

 

But seriously, I'd call up a number of the larger dealers at the time and negotiate myself a helluva finder's fee. Getting a couple of them into a bidding war would insure that the heirs got properly compensated, and I'd walk away with a hefty chunk for doing nothing more than making a phone call.

 

Alan

[FFB]

As a collector, I would definately take what I like and sell the rest

 

But I cant believe he got the collection for such little money. Even if you gather 10,000 of the crappiest moderns today, I would think you would probrably pay more than $2,000.

 

The back issue market for comics in 1977 was nowhere near what it is today. Granted, the books even then were worth a lot more than he paid for them, but the level of public knowledge regarding the value of back issue comics in 1977 was a lot different from what it is today.

 

Also, you have to keep in mind what Church's relatives' goals were. They wanted to sell the house ASAP because they were racists who were concerned that the neighborhood was declining because of the influx of "Mexicans" who were moving in. They wanted to get rid of the house before housing prices dropped and they needed the basement cleared out as soon as possible (in Denver in the middle of winter). They weren't trying to maximize the value of the collection. They wanted this "junk" removed immediately.

[Foolkiller]

Best take I've heard on this subject.

 

There's WAY too much bad information floating around this thread, so I suggest anyone who hasn't done so go here and keep reading until you've reach the end (or your eyes become permanently crossed).

 

Love him or hate him, Chuck's version of the find is the only "authoritative" claim we have of it, so we must take whatever he says at face value. In all reality, I have yet to hear any convincing evidence from anyone in the hobby that contradicts anything Chuck says in the above articles. Until the Church heirs come forward with their version, this should be the official account.

 

As for the ten cent a book price he purpotedly paid? Comics Between the Panels mentioned a friend of Chuck's (can't recall his name off the top of my head and I don't have the book with me at the moment) who gave that figure. I have yet to hear any hard figures for how much Chuck gave the heirs for Edgar's "worthless" art reference files and personal effects.

 

The basement of the Chuch house has 700 sq. ft. of finished space. Between the comics and Edgar's other paper ephemera, this entire area was overflowing with stuff. The rest of the two bedroom, one bath house is 786 sq. ft. Think about that for a second. For a number of decades, Edgar had co-opted half of this tiny dwelling for himself. I'm certain there was no love-lost on the part of his kids for these comic books. Throw in the added stress of actually having to get rid of all this junk, and anyone can see how this four color treasure trove was actually a huge albatross around the family's neck. Is it any wonder they jumped at any money that was offered to them?

 

As for what I would do if I was in Chuck's shoes circa 1995? I'd buy the house outright with all of its contents, paying whatever the heirs asked. If necessary, I'd sell a key or some non-exciting runs to pay for it. Then I'd go dive into the closet and swim around the books like Uncle Scrooge in his money pit.

 

But seriously, I'd call up a number of the larger dealers at the time and negotiate myself a helluva finder's fee. Getting a couple of them into a bidding war would insure that the heirs got properly compensated, and I'd walk away with a hefty chunk for doing nothing more than making a phone call.

 

Alan

[FFB]

As a collector, I would definately take what I like and sell the rest

 

But I cant believe he got the collection for such little money. Even if you gather 10,000 of the crappiest moderns today, I would think you would probrably pay more than $2,000.

'

 

He had to know they were valuable and if he bought them knowing they were worth many time more than he paid for them he could be criminally liable for fraud..

 

 

For example if your bought a painting for $1000 knowing it was worth $1,000,000 then sold it for the million the person you bought it from could sue you for fraud.

 

I find this very hard to believe. Please post a link or something to add something to this statement...as it is now I am not buying it..Getting a good deal on something is makes you a fraud?

 

I will try. I remember a Case in Canada where an art collector was at a garage Sale.

The sellers thought the painting was worthless and sold it cheap. The collector bought it and sold it for a large sum.

 

The home owner sued and won and the judge held that the collector knew it was valuable and had a duty to inform the seller they were making a mistake selling so low. This does not mean if you and I buy something and later we find out it was valuable we can get sued. But a professional cannot claim he did not know the painting was valuable because its his job to scan for these itmes.

 

As long as the expert does not make any false representations about the value of whatever he is buying, he will not be held liable. The expert does not have a duty to inform the ignorant seller of the true value of the item.

 

This is the rule in California and in probably the vast majority of jurisdictions in the United States, if not all of them. I have never seen a jurisdiction in this country with a contrary rule.

 

I seem to recall reading that this was how Chuck won his lawsuit with the heirs. He didn't tell them what the books were worth. He just asked what they wanted for them and paid it.

[FFB]

I say screw the church family. they got exactly what they wanted and deserved. They just wanted a quick grab at some cash and did what they had to to get it. Hell Edgar was still alive. I would hardly believe that this was something he would have wanted. His family screwed him and Chuckie screwed the family...goes around comes around.

 

that being sad. I would have no problem buying the collection for next to nothing and making a small fortune off of it. I would use my new fortune to make donations to organizations of my choosing, but I would not be giving the church folks one red cent.

 

Amen, brother. Amen. I wouldn't have given those bastards an extra dime.

[Ares]

As a collector, I would definately take what I like and sell the rest

 

But I cant believe he got the collection for such little money. Even if you gather 10,000 of the crappiest moderns today, I would think you would probrably pay more than $2,000.

'

 

He had to know they were valuable and if he bought them knowing they were worth many time more than he paid for them he could be criminally liable for fraud..

 

 

For example if your bought a painting for $1000 knowing it was worth $1,000,000 then sold it for the million the person you bought it from could sue you for fraud.

 

I find this very hard to believe. Please post a link or something to add something to this statement...as it is now I am not buying it..Getting a good deal on something is makes you a fraud?

 

I will try. I remember a Case in Canada where an art collector was at a garage Sale.

The sellers thought the painting was worthless and sold it cheap. The collector bought it and sold it for a large sum.

 

The home owner sued and won and the judge held that the collector knew it was valuable and had a duty to inform the seller they were making a mistake selling so low. This does not mean if you and I buy something and later we find out it was valuable we can get sued. But a professional cannot claim he did not know the painting was valuable because its his job to scan for these itmes.

 

As long as the expert does not make any false representations about the value of whatever he is buying, he will not be held liable. The expert does not have a duty to inform the ignorant seller of the true value of the item.

 

This is the rule in California and in probably the vast majority of jurisdictions in the United States, if not all of them. I have never seen a jurisdiction in this country with a contrary rule.

 

I seem to recall reading that this was how Chuck won his lawsuit with the heirs. He didn't tell them what the books were worth. He just asked what they wanted for them and paid it.

 

I wasnt sure. I knew there was some case law a while ago. I wasnt sure if it had change.

Thanks.

 

Chuck got himself a hell of a deal!

[garthgantu]

Even in '95 the collection would have been worth at least $10 million. I'd keep all but the Westerns and Romance titles and create a museum with rotating exhibits based on genre, years/periods ("the War years," etc.), cover artists, cover themes, and so forth. I'd call it the "Church of Comics" museum and in other ways honor Edgar Church and his tremendous accomplishment. I'd let kids in free on the weekends, and use the admission fees to help defray the operating costs.

 

I'd also work to make part of the collection a 'traveling' exhibit that would be housed in different museums around the country, for maximum exposure. Wherever possible, I'd push to have this traveling collection appear in museums that normally house fine art, classic Americana and priceless antiques.

 

This collection, if found today (or ten years) could literally elevate comic collecting to new levels of awareness and appreciation, and help establish the comic book as an important reflection of American history and culture over the past 70 years.

[bluenote]

Also, you have to keep in mind what Church's relatives' goals were. They wanted to sell the house ASAP because they were racists who were concerned that the neighborhood was declining because of the influx of "Mexicans" who were moving in

 

 

this is a very serious accusation to make to call someone a racist...whats your proof... i guarantee you chuck would take anyone money for his comic books whatever color they mau be.. as long as the money is green

[PedigreeMan]

I seem to recall reading that this was how Chuck won his lawsuit with the heirs. He didn't tell them what the books were worth. He just asked what they wanted for them and paid it.

 

Has this lawsuit ever been substantiated? I had my wife searching for records at one point but she never turned up anything.

[PedigreeMan]

Also, you have to keep in mind what Church's relatives' goals were. They wanted to sell the house ASAP because they were racists who were concerned that the neighborhood was declining because of the influx of "Mexicans" who were moving in

 

 

this is a very serious accusation to make to call someone a racist...whats your proof... i guarantee you chuck would take anyone money for his comic books whatever color they mau be.. as long as the money is green

 

 

Go read the articles I linked to on the milehighcomics.com website. Chuck alludes to the heirs engaging in classic "white flight" as one of the reasons they were so anxious to sell.

[Foolkiller]

I think it'd be very hard to turn up the court documents. You'd probably have to go to the county where they were filed originally and see if you could dig them up out of whatever storage system they use. I doubt they are available anywhere on line or through any easy system. In Philly here, searching for old civil dockets is generally like looking for a needle in a haystack if you don't have a case number or something more than the parties' names.

[bluenote]

pedigreeman

 

Go read the articles I linked to on the milehighcomics.com website. Chuck alludes to the heirs engaging in classic "white flight" as one of the reasons they were so anxious to sell.

 

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. i did read the articles.. there is nothing there that is to suggest chuck is a racist.. or u forgetting he is jewish.. his family was probably on the defensive back then... everyone knows jews and blacks had a rought time during that time.. blacks have it rough still today...but you did not tell people you were jewish in those days

[FFB]

Also, you have to keep in mind what Church's relatives' goals were. They wanted to sell the house ASAP because they were racists who were concerned that the neighborhood was declining because of the influx of "Mexicans" who were moving in

 

 

this is a very serious accusation to make to call someone a racist...whats your proof... i guarantee you chuck would take anyone money for his comic books whatever color they mau be.. as long as the money is green

 

Read the damn articles.

[FFB]

pedigreeman

 

Go read the articles I linked to on the milehighcomics.com website. Chuck alludes to the heirs engaging in classic "white flight" as one of the reasons they were so anxious to sell.

 

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. i did read the articles.. there is nothing there that is to suggest chuck is a racist.. or u forgetting he is jewish.. his family was probably on the defensive back then... everyone knows jews and blacks had a rought time during that time.. blacks have it rough still today...but you did not tell people you were jewish in those days

 

I wasn't saying Chuck was a racist. I was very clearly talking about Church's heirs, who wanted to sell the house ASAP because the neighborhood was becoming "too Mexican" and they wanted to get top dollar for it before the values started to drop (which was apparently their expectation as more Latinos moved into the neighborhood).

[bluenote]

pedigreeman- my mistake.... sorry!

[Silver Surfer]

As a collector, I would definately take what I like and sell the rest

 

But I cant believe he got the collection for such little money. Even if you gather 10,000 of the crappiest moderns today, I would think you would probrably pay more than $2,000.

'

 

He had to know they were valuable and if he bought them knowing they were worth many time more than he paid for them he could be criminally liable for fraud..

 

 

For example if your bought a painting for $1000 knowing it was worth $1,000,000 then sold it for the million the person you bought it from could sue you for fraud.

 

Somehow I doubt that very much.

[bluenote]

He had to know they were valuable and if he bought them knowing they were worth many time more than he paid for them he could be criminally liable for fraud..

 

 

For example if your bought a painting for $1000 knowing it was worth $1,000,000 then sold it for the million the person you bought it from could sue you for fraud.

 

 

 

 

 

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well didn't the family try uinsucessfully to sue aftwer they found out the books were worth alot more...?