Back From The Dead 0

[LearnedHand]

Hey everyone.  I've been gone from this forum for quite some time, and just started reading some threads.  Some really interesting threads!  Glad to be back! 

This has probably been discussed before, but the portrayal of the birth of the Silver Age has always been an enigma to me.  I'm sure everyone has heard about what a stir Showcase 4 caused when it appeared in 1956.  The stories go that a generation, including young adults, was introduced to superheroes, something many hadn't seen before.  And people were even more shocked when they learned this SA hero, the Flash, had a precursor way back in the 1940s.  Basically, the gap between the Golden Age sunset and the birth of the Silver Age is portrayed as so great that the GA heroes were not commonly known or remembered by the time 1956 rolled around. The fact is, the sunset of the JSA (All-Star Comics) was in 1951 - a mere 5 years before Showcase 4 appeared.  Coupled with Batman and Superman being in continuous print, I have a hard time understanding how a 5 year gap explains the way things are portrayed.  Anyone?  

Peter

[OtherEric]

47 minutes ago, LearnedHand said:

Hey everyone.  I've been gone from this forum for quite some time, and just started reading some threads.  Some really interesting threads!  Glad to be back! 

This has probably been discussed before, but the portrayal of the birth of the Silver Age has always been an enigma to me.  I'm sure everyone has heard about what a stir Showcase 4 caused when it appeared in 1956.  The stories go that a generation, including young adults, was introduced to superheroes, something many hadn't seen before.  And people were even more shocked when they learned this SA hero, the Flash, had a precursor way back in the 1940s.  Basically, the gap between the Golden Age sunset and the birth of the Silver Age is portrayed as so great that the GA heroes were not commonly known or remembered by the time 1956 rolled around. The fact is, the sunset of the JSA (All-Star Comics) was in 1951 - a mere 5 years before Showcase 4 appeared.  Coupled with Batman and Superman being in continuous print, I have a hard time understanding how a 5 year gap explains the way things are portrayed.  Anyone?  

Peter

I've never been convinced Showcase #4 really caused that much of a stir right away; and I've never seen the story really presented the way you have it, with young adults only then encountering the heroes like that.  Even then, I think it's wrong to say Showcase #4 was where the Silver Age really got rolling... it's just the book that, in retrospect, we can point at as the starting point.  You describe it as a 5 year gap.  But Flash wasn't even on the cover of All-Star frequently those last two years; and there were only 4 Showcase appearances from 1956 to when the new series started in 1959.  Calling the actual gap closer to 10 years, with a few outliers, is just as valid in many ways.

Alternately, you can say the Silver Age and Golden age overlapped even more than they did.  Marvel had a Sub-Mariner book out just one year before Showcase #4; the last issue of Plastic Man was cover dated later than Showcase #4; as you say Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, and a few others were in continual print.  But for most of the 50's, the superheroes were a much, much smaller part of the comic landscape than in the 40's or 60's.  Describing it as a 5 year gap is a purely retrospective view, based on specific issue dates.  It really doesn't give a true picture of the situation.

At least, that's how I've always seen it.  But I'm an early bronze age character, so my view is also purely retrospective. 

[adamstrange]

All comic "ages" were designated after the fact and represent reasonable attempts to categorize noticeable changes in publishing trends. There will typically be some preliminary examples that occur prior to the start of an age and some examples that occur after the official end date.  The debate around ages almost always revolves around which of the early adopters and the stragglers signal the start and end of the age in question.

As such it can be helpful to look at the predecessor and successor ages in order to provide a context for the discussion of any particular age.  

Golden Age represents the golden age of superheroes when they went from being 13% share of a very small market in 1938 to a 54% share of a much larger market in 1941.  In June 1941, there are 57 comics, 42 of which are arguably mostly super-hero based.  

It's not far from the truth to say that the GA was superhero comics for kids.  The end of WWII, however, resulted in such a significant reduction in the interest of superheroes that by 1950 supers were down to just a 4% share of of an extremely large comics market.

This was what the comics newsstand looked like when Superman was published in 1938.  
 
(The image was created by Theagenes.)

The Atomic Age was the first time period when the industry published comics in every genre targeting every age group from young kids to adults.  Comics became just as diverse a medium for telling stories for all ages as books, movies, plays, music etc.

While there were crime (Crime Does Not Pay) and teen (Archie) titles starting during the war, they ramped up considerably after the war. Romance (Young Love 1947), Good Girl Art (Phantom Lady 1947) and horror (Adventures into the Unknown 1948) started after the war. While sci-fi had been around since the early days of the GA, it had died down during the war until a noticeable expansion started in 1951.

The Atomic Age was also the time of the greatest number of titles and the greatest number of printed comics. In 1952, for example, there were 643 titles compared to 115 in 1940 or 289 in 1945. Explicit acts of violence, "good girl" art and inclusion of horror story elements were incorporated into many titles/genres that had been relatively tame. These also were the primary thematic elements that were to cause the backlash against comics in general and that were eventually stifled by the comics code.  

I personally think the Atomic Age is best described as starting with the dropping of the Atomic Bomb and ending with the advent of the Code. These end points are not only historically significant and easy to remember but also happen to correspond with very dramatic publishing shifts.

The Silver Age was about the re-introduction of superheros with a science-fiction twist as a way to take advantage of Sputnik/space race era and because of the youthful interests of many of the main creators (Schwartz, Weisinger, Kirby, Lee, Kane etc were all part of the early fandom of sci-fi).  The sci-fi aspects were critical to innovating a commercially successful approach within the restrictions imposed by Comics Code.

Marvel evolved the DC approach to heros by adding realistic incidents and problems to their stories.  For example, they show the difficulty Peter Parker has in trying to cash a check made out to "Spiderman."  With a greater emphasis on the personal life and by extending storylines across multiple issues, Marvels are synthesis of superhoics and soap opera.

Note:  All stats were sourced from the indispensable Gerber Photojournal.

 

[LearnedHand]

I wish I had those comic book racks as-is!  Wow, that is a great image. 

I don't disagree with anything said and see a lot of it the same way.  I think the portrayal I laid out came from an Overstreet article published years ago that pointed to the stir caused by Showcase 4 and that it sparked the Secong Heroic Age.  I've seen similar accounts elsewhere and that's sort of why I asked the question.  In my humble opinion, I think it's more as you've stated - the trends didn't favor superheroes until Showcase 4 had people take another look at this genre.  Even a ten year gap between regular Flash appearances, however, doesn't explain how hobbyists were unaware of his prior existence.  I think this portrayal is even repeated in the narrative in Crisis on Infinite Earths no. 1.  I also feel, blasphemous as this may be, that Young Men 24 was more important than Showcase 4, even if it wasn't, or isn't portrayed as, the "spark." 

 

[jimjum12]

8 hours ago, adamstrange said:

The Silver Age was about the re-introduction of superheros with a science-fiction twist as a way to take advantage of Sputnik/space race era and because of the youthful interests of many of the main creators (Schwartz, Weisinger, Kirby, Lee, Kane etc were all part of the early fandom of sci-fi).  The sci-fi aspects were critical to innovating a commercially successful approach within the restrictions imposed by Comics Code.

....this just cannot be understated. As much as folks want to lay all the credit for the SA on Marvel's doorstep, it just isn't that simple. The Showcase run was pivotal in broadening the parameters of the comic industry and merging it with the publics newfound fascination with science and outer space. Would the era have been different without the Showcase title, who knows ? I grew up in the middle of the Silver Age and it was a very creative and inventive period in popular culture ..... comics played a HUGE role in my life then and I consider myself fortunate .......... but sadly this is the topic which will never be resolved.... too many different criteria and ways of looking at it. GOD BLESS....

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

@burntboy ...... Harry B is the only collector I actually know who bought Showcase 4 off the rack ..... I recall him saying it seemed groundbreaking to him at the time and that it impressed him in a big way....

[Sqeggs]

1 hour ago, jimjum12 said:

....this just cannot be understated. As much as folks want to lay all the credit for the SA on Marvel's doorstep, it just isn't that simple. The Showcase run was pivotal in broadening the parameters of the comic industry and merging it with the publics newfound fascination with science and outer space. Would the era have been different without the Showcase title, who knows ? I grew up in the middle of the Silver Age and it was a very creative and inventive period in popular culture ..... comics played a HUGE role in my life then and I consider myself fortunate .......... but sadly this is the topic which will never be resolved.... too many different criteria and ways of looking at it. GOD BLESS....

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

@burntboy ...... Harry B is the only collector I actually know who bought Showcase 4 off the rack ..... I recall him saying it seemed groundbreaking to him at the time and that it impressed him in a big way....

That would be me!  Not old enough to know how much the publication of Showcase 4 may have affected the average comic reader of the time, but, with hindsight, it's hard to see it as being a big deal.  It's not as if DC had stopped publishing super hero books and it's not as if the early Flash or Green Lantern or Adam Strange or even Challengers of the Unknown stories were much different from what DC had been publishing in the 1950s.

The real break comes with the publication of AF 15 and FF 1.  Those stories were strikingly different from what had come before.  Sure, fandom of a type already existed, but modern fandom really only begins with the enthusiasm caused by the early Marvel books.  I'm old enough (barely) to remember that. 

[adamstrange]

6 hours ago, LearnedHand said:

I also feel, blasphemous as this may be, that Young Men 24 was more important than Showcase 4, even if it wasn't, or isn't portrayed as, the "spark." 

 

Young Men 24 is the quintessential Atomic Age superhero comic, resurrecting Timely's "Big 3" in plots infused with Cold War era villains and themes.  It's run, however, was short and it's influence negligible.

[Readcomix]

6 hours ago, Sqeggs said:

That would be me!  Not old enough to know how much the publication of Showcase 4 may have affected the average comic reader of the time, but, with hindsight, it's hard to see it as being a big deal.  It's not as if DC had stopped publishing super hero books and it's not as if the early Flash or Green Lantern or Adam Strange or even Challengers of the Unknown stories were much different from what DC had been publishing in the 1950s.

The real break comes with the publication of AF 15 and FF 1.  Those stories were strikingly different from what had come before.  Sure, fandom of a type already existed, but modern fandom really only begins with the enthusiasm caused by the early Marvel books.  I'm old enough (barely) to remember that. 

I think the Challs were far different from other 50's DC outputs. It's very much the early FF without powers. Flash showed up in the longjohns, but Kirby infused the Challs with the first taste of the flavor that would become the Marvel brand.

I'm not denigrating showcase 4; it's rightfully a SA icon alongside FF1 as the early standard bearers. I do think that Showcase 6 is a bit underappreciated for what it brings to the table. To Jimbo's point, the importance of the sci-if infusion is a lot of why Tec 225 is the big damn deal it is even though Martian Manhunter is a bit player, at least relatively. (Though one could argue he's like Nick Fury in the Marvel U, a sort of uniting supporting character, but that's another discussion and I'm biased as I really like MM).

[MrBedrock]

9 hours ago, jimjum12 said:

@burntboy ...... Harry B is the only collector I actually know who bought Showcase 4 off the rack ..... I recall him saying it seemed groundbreaking to him at the time and that it impressed him in a big way....

My friend Glenn Kessler started collecting Mighty Mouse in 1949. He bought Showcase 4 off the stands and says it was the most memorable comic buying experience he ever had.

Why is a short five years publishing hiatus important to the discussion? There was never a gap in Superman publishing, yet the Death issue in the early '90s is a concrete turning point that defines an era. There was never a gap in Green Lantern publishing, yet issue 76 is a concrete turning point that defines an era. There were sword and sorcery books prior to Conan yet it is the beginning of an era. There has been a twenty year break in Donald Duck being published in the States, yet if a new issue came out now there probably would not be much hoopla. What I am trying to say is certain books catch the publics' imagination, readers continue to talk about them long after they first apppeared, and they become historically important. Showcase 4 is one of those. Young Men 24 isn't really one of those. YM 24 is a cool book for sure, but not as memorable to the readers at the time as Showcase 4 proved to be.

[LearnedHand]

Mr. Bedrock (Richie?), 

The reason for the 5-year hiatus was at the core of my initial post.  In essence, you have two named "Ages" (First Heroic Age (GA) and then the Second Heroic Age (SA)) as though there was some real end-point and significant time gap to explain the demarcation and new named "Age." Was stating that I've never understood that because the gap was short and some superheroes were in continuous print.  But that's received a lot of good input and answers above.  With respect, I think the point you are making is different, even if I agree with it.  All the books you've named are not "the" demarcation books for new named "Ages." 

Peter

[adamstrange]

In order for a comic to start an age it has to inspire and have a noticeable success.  This excludes Tec 225.  There's no evidence I'm aware of a creator being contemporaneously inspired by Martian Manhunter, much less comic fans declaring him "favorite hero" or handing out awards to the creative team.  Nor was it very successful judging by the fact that it received top billing on a comic starting only in June 1964.  He didn't make a cover appearance until B&B 28 and that was as one of a team of five.

Challengers wasn't a superhero team but more Kirby's version of the adventure stories like DC had in My Greatest Adv and Tales of the Unexpected.  I suspect that was the reason it got the green light for a solo title, just like FF 1 was probably approved because it superficially looked like Marvel's perhero monster books more than a superhero book.  Challengers had no super-powers, special costume, alter-egos, hidden identities etc. that were hallmarks of the super-hero revival.  

While Showcase 4 was successful, Flash did not get his own title for a couple years.  In fact it was four months before his second appearance.  This is actually an argument in favor of it being revolutionary as it was so different from what was being published that it was too risky for DC to assume it was other than a fluke.  This is consistent with the timid start of the Golden Age where Superman's second cover appearance was Action 7 and his third Action 10.  

Basically, DC had burned out on publishing any superheroes beyond their big 3 (Supe, Bats, and WW) and only the sales results induced them to run a second and a third trial.  At the time, final sales results were known by 3 months following the distribution date after which the decision was made to do another Flash story.  That's why there's at least a 4 month gap between the first 3 appearances of Flash.

Flash was a re-interpretation of the original GA Flash with a science fiction twist.  That was the pattern for GL, Atom, Hawkman etc.  B&B 28 was the natural evolution of the All Star/ Justice Society concept for the new heroes.  Even the Marvel hero origins were science fiction based, though with the Kirby/Lee/Ditko spin loved by Marvel zombies and others.  I've not read any serious comic historian make the case for FF1 being the start of the Silver Age and, like Ricky, a friend of mine growing up at the time speaks of the significant change that he noticed with the arrival of Showcase 4. The creators and fans all noticed the difference in super-heros before Flash and after Flash, and gave awards to Schwartz/Infantino/Anderson.  There were superheros created/revived throughout the 50s but the one that "stuck" was the Flash.

Edited December 17, 2017 by adamstrange

[N e r V]

Superheroes were really popular through the war. Afterwards they declined as a whole but never stopped completely. DC in 1956 decided to (slowly) reintroduce their superhero line with updated changes to characters. Showcase #4 is more important from the publishing standpoint of what it lead to with the superheroes slowing picking up steam again and it’s success leading to DC to continue on that path. It’s more that than the public bombshell the Flash as a character was to readers at the time. 

What was a bombshell to readers was what Marvel started in 1961 with Fantastic Four 1 and the superhero with problems. That was a new slant on the genre as a whole and was a major shift for fans going forward.

Marvel needed what came before though with DC getting the superhero genre going again. 

I see Showcase 4 and the silver age as a historical shift with the superhero in publishing not so much as a fans historical moment at the time.

I’m also of the opinion the introduction of the comics code and the death of the previous horror and other uncensored comics sent publishers back to looking for other things that would work in the new code era and since superheroes were big before they were just going back to the well to see if history could repeat itself.

Edited December 17, 2017 by N e r V

[N e r V]

5 hours ago, MrBedrock said:

My friend Glenn Kessler started collecting Mighty Mouse in 1949. He bought Showcase 4 off the stands and says it was the most memorable comic buying experience he ever had.

Why is a short five years publishing hiatus important to the discussion? There was never a gap in Superman publishing, yet the Death issue in the early '90s is a concrete turning point that defines an era. There was never a gap in Green Lantern publishing, yet issue 76 is a concrete turning point that defines an era. There were sword and sorcery books prior to Conan yet it is the beginning of an era. There has been a twenty year break in Donald Duck being published in the States, yet if a new issue came out now there probably would not be much hoopla. What I am trying to say is certain books catch the publics' imagination, readers continue to talk about them long after they first apppeared, and they become historically important. Showcase 4 is one of those. Young Men 24 isn't really one of those. YM 24 is a cool book for sure, but not as memorable to the readers at the time as Showcase 4 proved to be.

Forget about Glenn, we’d all like to know why you didn’t buy that copy of Action comics 1 in 1938???

What was a more interesting choice than that, that left you Action 1-less...  

 

[adamstrange]

1 hour ago, N e r V said:

I’m also of the opinion the introduction of the comics code and the death of the previous horror and other uncensored comics sent publishers back to looking for other things that would work in the new code era and since superheroes were big before they were just going back to the well to see if history could repeat itself.

I would suggest they were very interested in building sales and willing to try most anything (Firemen?  Wild critters?  Frogmen?) suggested by the editorial staff in their free-range Showcase title.  Their fourth issue/attempt was a superhero and it sold, so that's what they went with.

[N e r V]

It’s also been pointed out at times by some people that it took DC a while before doing another superhero after Flash with Green Lantern in Showcase in 1959. The fact is they were pretty committed to trying to make the superhero type genre work beginning with Showcase 4. The Flash himself was given 4 appearances over the next year and a half (4,8,13,14) in the book. Right after Flash we get the new superhero team Challengers (6,7,11,12), tried and true Lois Lane in 9 and 10, some Sci-Fic superheroes in Space Ranger (15,16), Adam Strange (17-19) and time traveling hero Rip Hunter in 20 and 21. All before Green Lantern gets his makeover. Even when Showcase started doing characters like Aquaman or Atom they still continued the format by introducing new heroes like Sea Devils or Metal Men in with the do overs by past heroes.

 

Showcase 4 was never an Amazing Fantasy 15 one off that happened to sell and got them interested in trying the superhero genre again. They started with issue 4 and skipped only one issue (5) before using the Showcase title to be a springboard of previous existing characters with New takes on them and all new concepts that would all become part of their future DC universe. The only thing that would have ended it from happening was poor sales but given how many Showcase series ended up with their own titles we know that didn’t happen. 

If you use 1945 as a loose starting point for the earliest baby boomer they were 11 in 1956 and the perfect age for superheroes to be new to them and it was mostly baby boomers who carried the silver age of comics.

The silver age of comics was probably started more as a publishing shift by some in comics but by the early 60’s it had also clearly become a shift on how comics were made thanks to those guys Lee, Kirby and Ditko and yes even DC would finally change how they went around in making comics later in this silver age.

[MrBedrock]

15 hours ago, LearnedHand said:

 All the books you've named are not "the" demarcation books for new named "Ages." 

 

Green Lantern 76 and Conan 1 - The Bronze Age

Superman 75 - The Speculator Age

The hypothetical non-selling Donald Duck reboot would certainly not start an Age.

[N e r V]

32 minutes ago, MrBedrock said:

Green Lantern 76 and Conan 1 - The Bronze Age

Superman 75 - The Speculator Age

The hypothetical non-selling Donald Duck reboot would certainly not start an Age.

I think I settled on Green Lantern/Arrow 76 as the first BA book since all the other markers of it like Conan 1 or Kirby leaving Marvel followed this issue. Also it was the beginning of comics attempt at a new realism that they avoided up until then. After this we get the Spider-Man and GA/L drug books, Gwen and Goblins death, etc. 

The comics were firing shots at the old code and moving the lines for the first time.

 

I start the modern age at Crisis 1 in 1985 at DC. Their complete modern reboot was followed by Watchman, Dark Knight, etc. and set the industry down a bit of a darker path in how comics were presented. 

 

History is often messy though with numerous focal points that help forge new directions and I believe anyone looking for “neatness” with clearly defined expectations is going to be disappointed. Sparks cause fires.

[burntboy]

As Jimbo mentioned earlier, I had the good fortune to buy Showcase 4 off the rack back in 1956 at the tender age of 9.   Up to that point I'd bought a few Superman, batman. plasticman and lots of Westerns.    It was really the cover of the book that piqued my interest and help to foster My collecting experience.   Interestingly I think the next Showcase that I bought was 17 with Adam Strange and then most every one after that until early 1965 when My ardor waned. I have to admit that I have always considered #4 to be the beginning of the SA.

Having said that, the arrival of the FF was viewed with much scepticism at first as it read and felt like another Marvel monster comic.   This would begin to evaporate for Me beginning with #3 and then it was full steam ahead with number 4 as the "intro" of the Submariner (and later Cap) was so well handled.   I bought all of the Hulk's first 6 issues and am happy to say that the day both AF 15 and JIM 83 hit Sid's luncheonette, I was completely hooked.

So count Me among the the folks who think Showcase 4 began the SA and FF1 began the Marvel AGE... 

 

[LearnedHand]

4 hours ago, burntboy said:

As Jimbo mentioned earlier, I had the good fortune to buy Showcase 4 off the rack back in 1956 at the tender age of 9.   Up to that point I'd bought a few Superman, batman. plasticman and lots of Westerns.    It was really the cover of the book that piqued my interest and help to foster My collecting experience.   Interestingly I think the next Showcase that I bought was 17 with Adam Strange and then most every one after that until early 1965 when My ardor waned. I have to admit that I have always considered #4 to be the beginning of the SA.

Having said that, the arrival of the FF was viewed with much scepticism at first as it read and felt like another Marvel monster comic.   This would begin to evaporate for Me beginning with #3 and then it was full steam ahead with number 4 as the "intro" of the Submariner (and later Cap) was so well handled.   I bought all of the Hulk's first 6 issues and am happy to say that the day both AF 15 and JIM 83 hit Sid's luncheonette, I was completely hooked.

So count Me among the the folks who think Showcase 4 began the SA and FF1 began the Marvel AGE... 

 

Thanks for sharing!  That's a great first-hand account.  The question though, is when you bought Showcase 4 and similar, were you competely unaware that the Golden Age had occurred and that the Flash had a prior life?  My guess is that in your case, because you were only 9, the answer is probably "yes?"  But, did you have older siblings or cousins in their teens at that time and if so, did they too seem to not know or not remember the Flash or the earlier era with super hero books filling the racks?  Thanks again for sharing. 

[burntboy]

16 hours ago, LearnedHand said:

Thanks for sharing!  That's a great first-hand account.  The question though, is when you bought Showcase 4 and similar, were you competely unaware that the Golden Age had occurred and that the Flash had a prior life?  My guess is that in your case, because you were only 9, the answer is probably "yes?"  But, did you have older siblings or cousins in their teens at that time and if so, did they too seem to not know or not remember the Flash or the earlier era with super hero books filling the racks?  Thanks again for sharing. 

 

16 hours ago, LearnedHand said:

Thanks for sharing!  That's a great first-hand account.  The question though, is when you bought Showcase 4 and similar, were you competely unaware that the Golden Age had occurred and that the Flash had a prior life?  My guess is that in your case, because you were only 9, the answer is probably "yes?"  But, did you have older siblings or cousins in their teens at that time and if so, did they too seem to not know or not remember the Flash or the earlier era with super hero books filling the racks?  Thanks again for sharing. 

I didn't have anyone older that I could relate comics to...

I wasn't aware of the GA Flash at the time.

I'm not sure if I was aware of him before Flash 123 or Showcase 34 which came out about the same time in 9/10 1961.  ( perhaps in the pages of some fanzines back then but can't be sure).   I do remember being blown away by his reintroduction on the cover of 123 (one of my top ten comics ever).    And I felt the same when FF 4 and later Avengers 4 hit the stands.