dirtymartini1 Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 (edited) On 1/4/2018 at 8:35 PM, theflashunc said: I just assume anything the Donnellys have -- and they have some Paul Ryan FF art I'd be thrilled to own -- as just having been lost in a fire somewhere. They're not dealers in any traditional sense, between the altered covers, outrageous pricing and all the rest. They're more collectors using the veneer of the business to their own advantages. Ha! A collector friend of mine warned me early on about them when I was starting out in this awesome hobby.... if you ever want a piece and you discover it is owned by "The Lobotomy Brothers" considered it lost and burnt in a fire. You will get no where with them and only raise your blood pressure. My friend was spot on. I inquired about a random nonsense panel page that should have been around $150. They sent me the price of 20 pages. All were already overpriced averaging $400. Of course the 1 page I asked for happen to be more (imagine that). I hated the thought of overpaying so much so I deliberated for a bit. I went back to them to say ok lets do it. They said 2 other people were interested in the same random page which insinuated I would have to offer more than there already outrageous price. Its still there for sale a year later. Edited January 9, 2018 by dirtymartini1 MAY1979, aardvark88, pemart1966 and 1 other 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otherworldsj331 Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 49 minutes ago, dirtymartini1 said: Ha! A collector friend of mine warned me early on about them when I was starting out in this awesome hobby.... if you ever want a piece and you discover it is owned by "The Lobotomy Brothers" considered it lost and burnt in a fire. You will get no where with them and only raise your blood pressure. My friend was spot on. I inquired about a random nonsense panel page that should have been around $150. They sent me the price of 20 pages. All were already overpriced averaging $400. Of course the 1 page I asked for happen to be more (imagine that). I hated the thought of overpaying so much so I deliberated for a bit. I went back to them to say ok lets do it. They said 2 other people were interested in the same random page which insinuated I would have to offer more than there already outrageous price. Its still there for sale a year later. It'll be there in 2028 too. The price will be about $1900 by that time. dirtymartini1 and MAY1979 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post alxjhnsn Posted June 7, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted June 7, 2020 (edited) Reposted so I could change an image. The original post is here. ---- I need to put together a DB Q&A. I started one once, but ... I'd like to preface this with that my relationship with Coollines Art has been primarily through e-mail and while we've never struck a deal they have always been prompt and polite. I've met Rich a few times and he's been cordial. I don't recall meeting Steve, but we've corresponded and he too has been cordial. I've never traded or bought from them. That said, they do things differently than I would and one of those is "restoration" of their art. Before we go on, I'd like to share my opinion: I believe that they are really collectors in disguise. I believe that they use the advantages of being well advertised dealers to build their collection at a discount. Advantages include potential tax advantages as a reseller, e.g., sales tax avoidance on purchases, early con access, and so on. I am not contending that there is anything wrong with this. As I mentioned above, they alter their art work to "restore"it and to "enhance" its value. Often they do not disclose the alterations. They have turned drawings into "preliminary/rejected/unpublished" variant coverss and they do special things to make drawings into "covers." We are going to discuss one example: Curt Swan's cover for Superman Annual #7. This Curt Swan piece was sold on Heritage in 2007 - Note the words on the statue's base. As I understand it, the Heritage buyer sold/traded it to the Donneleys some time later. They now show it on their site as: Note the words on the base of the statue. A conversation on the Curt Swan FB fan page led to an e-mail conversation with Steve. Steve told me in that note that: Steve Donneley said: As our web site mentions, the large center Superman figure by Curt Swan was the only original art ever created for this cover. The four side images were stats taken from images of earlier reprinted stories and were missing from the original when I bought it. "The 4 side images on the 1963 annual were originally stat'ed from earlier Superman stories and were hand redrawn for this cover" So, I had the missing stats redrawn and placed on the original art board in the exact position that the DC production material would have gone! They "restored" the cover to its original state by re-creating stats using an unknown artist. Curt passed away in 1996 and the art was acquired by the Donnelly's after the Heritage Auction in Jan 18, 2007 in a trade with the buyer. An interesting point was made on the Swan FB page by Ray Cuthbert about Steve's assumption: Ray Cuthbert said: Steve's information to Alex above shows an incorrect assumption. All of the images for that cover were drawn especially for that cover by Swan & Klein. They were not stats unless they were drawn by Swan and Klein and then statted for publication purposes. The stories reprinted were not all drawn by Swan, let alone all inked by Klein. There is no way that those were stats from story panels originally. I have no idea if it was done on two separate boards, but I suspect so, since only the "statue" part was done in ink wash, to make it look distinctive. While I would not have mounted "replacement stats" on the original Swan piece, I might have done it on an overlay. There are several takeaways here: People do try to "restore" art and Coollines is one place that does. Proper restoration is hard. Be an informed buyer One man's restoration is another man's fake. By the way, this piece was not originally designed for the cover of Superman Annual #7. Ray Cuthbert says: The statuette image was originally used prior to SUPERMAN ANNUAL #7 - as the Independent News Initiative Award. This is why the actual original art has a different inscription than on the ANNUAL cover. Here’s that original image: Edited June 14, 2020 by alxjhnsn John E., timguerrero, NC101 and 4 others 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatEscape Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 (edited) 22 hours ago, alxjhnsn said: Reposted so I could change an image. The original post is here. ---- I They now show it on their site as: Note the words on the base of the statue. A conversation on the Curt Swan FB fan page led to an e-mail conversation with Steve. Steve told me in that note that: Steve Donneley said: As our web site mentions, the large center Superman figure by Curt Swan was the only original art ever created for this cover. The four side images were stats taken from images of earlier reprinted stories and were missing from the original when I bought it. "The 4 side images on the 1963 annual were originally stat'ed from earlier Superman stories and were hand redrawn for this cover" So, I had the missing stats redrawn and placed on the original art board in the exact position that the DC production material would have gone! That's really insightful, thanks for sharing. Two questions: (1) If the art was drawn for the statuette (prior to the cover), this implies it was just another stat on the Superman cover. While it is a stretch to describe as "the only original art created for this cover", the statement is true but not fully transparent without the add'l details (2) Steve says he had stats redrawn and "placed on the original art board". If the statuette drawing was done on separate board, then Steve had to recreate the art board from a copy or use a blank World Color or Sparta board that was not original. To me, this crosses the line to deception, if not fraud. If Steve had to write the "7 x 10 1/2" and other margin elements (ie, "Sch Apr 1963" or other notes) than it is clearly meant to deceive and con a potential sucker-- er, buyer. Finally, your comment about "a collector in disguise....they use the dealer advantages" is probably spot on but no harm there as lots of dealers (and a growing number of hybrid collector-dealers) are doing this as differences have blurred over the years. I'm more concerned about the Brothers' reputation, to paraphrase: "PRICE like a collector, BUY like an art dealer, SELL like a used car dealer and CREATE like an artist." Edited June 8, 2020 by GreatEscape Primetime, Twanj, ThothAmon and 1 other 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bunky Brian Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 11 hours ago, GreatEscape said: That's really insightful, thanks for sharing. Two questions: (1) If the art was drawn for the statuette (prior to the cover), this implies it was just another stat on the Superman cover. While it is a stretch to describe as "the only original art created for this cover", the statement is true but not fully transparent without the add'l details (2) Steve says he had stats redrawn and "placed on the original art board". If the statuette drawing was done on separate board, then Steve had to recreate the art board from a copy or use a blank World Color or Sparta board that was not original. To me, this crosses the line to deception, if not fraud. If Steve had to write the "7 x 10 1/2" and other margin elements (ie, "Sch Apr 1963" or other notes) than it is clearly meant to deceive and con a potential sucker-- er, buyer. Finally, your comment about "a collector in disguise....they use the dealer advantages" is probably spot on but no harm there as lots of dealers (and a growing number of hybrid collector-dealers) are doing this as differences have blurred over the years. I'm more concerned about the Brothers' reputation, to paraphrase: "PRICE like a collector, BUY like an art dealer, SELL like a used car dealer and CREATE like an artist." Smells like misrepresentation all the way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lobstrosity Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 I find the brothers' ethics repulsive, but I'm wondering, has anyone ever discussed their reputations with them? Surely they must be aware of their public perception? NC101 and timguerrero 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visarspike Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 4 hours ago, Lobstrosity said: I find the brothers' ethics repulsive, but I'm wondering, has anyone ever discussed their reputations with them? Surely they must be aware of their public perception? and more important....if their reputation is so bad, why are they still allowed to have a booth at conventions, or to advertise on CAF for example? Twanj 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick2you2 Posted June 9, 2020 Author Share Posted June 9, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, visarspike said: and more important....if their reputation is so bad, why are they still allowed to have a booth at conventions, or to advertise on CAF for example? For the simple reason that it is a buyer’s basic responsibility to know what the buyer is buying. Some of their actions are what I would consider to be fraudulent, which falls outside of caveat emptor, or violates some other legal rules, but for the most part, the biggest complaints are that their prices are too high. When I have gone to shows, they do have pieces, generally of lesser quality or desirability, which are not terribly priced. And, they do make sales. To be clear: I am not a fan or an apologist for bad behavior. I just try to look at it with dispassion. There is a piece coming up which they apparently consigned to Heritage which opens for bids on 6/19. It is a mediocre Jim Aparo cover from the Phantom Stranger run with a woman in front of a treasure chest. Albert Moye had been trying to sell it for several years at $8,000 without success. In March, 2019, it showed up at the Donnelly’s booth at the NJ comic art convention. There, it was on sale for $11,000. I am very curious to see what they get for it, and if they will likely make money. My guess is they should at least break even, which suggests their pricing has not been madness, at least in that one instance. Edited June 9, 2020 by Rick2you2 timguerrero 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alxjhnsn Posted August 23, 2023 Share Posted August 23, 2023 On 6/9/2020 at 5:16 AM, Rick2you2 said: There is a piece coming up which they apparently consigned to Heritage which opens for bids on 6/19. It is a mediocre Jim Aparo cover from the Phantom Stranger run with a woman in front of a treasure chest. Albert Moye had been trying to sell it for several years at $8,000 without success. In March, 2019, it showed up at the Donnelly’s booth at the NJ comic art convention. There, it was on sale for $11,000. I am very curious to see what they get for it, and if they will likely make money. My guess is they should at least break even, which suggests their pricing has not been madness, at least in that one instance. I cited this thread recently and reread it. I realized that it was left on a cliffhanger. “How well did the Bros. price the cover?” I wondered. The answer? Albert Moy was a little high and Los Bros were way off the market price. The Donnelly price: $11,000 The Moy price: $8000 The Heritage price including BP: $7200 davidtere, Sean I, cloud cloddie and 1 other 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick2you2 Posted August 23, 2023 Author Share Posted August 23, 2023 On 8/23/2023 at 3:56 PM, alxjhnsn said: I cited this thread recently and reread it. I realized that it was left on a cliffhanger. “How well did the Bros. price the cover?” I wondered. The answer? Albert Moy was a little high and Los Bros were way off the market price. The Donnelly price: $11,000 The Moy price: $8000 The Heritage price including BP: $7200 It's nice to be wrong. Although, it would likely bring more now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aahz Posted August 24, 2023 Share Posted August 24, 2023 Tomorrow's pricing today! Twanj, Dr. Balls, Rick2you2 and 1 other 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAY1979 Posted August 28, 2023 Share Posted August 28, 2023 (edited) San Mateo Bros loves playing them Mind Games. Gives them a smug sense of self satisfaction. Yet unbelievably there is one Boston based OA art dealer who is far worse. Edited August 28, 2023 by MAR1979 pemart1966 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artdealer Posted August 28, 2023 Share Posted August 28, 2023 On 8/28/2023 at 12:47 PM, MAR1979 said: San Mateo Bros loves playing them Mind Games. Gives them a smug sense of self satisfaction. Yet unbelievably there is one Boston based OA art dealer who is far worse. No. Stop. Really? Will_K, jjonahjameson11 and pemart1966 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick2you2 Posted August 28, 2023 Author Share Posted August 28, 2023 On 8/28/2023 at 12:47 PM, MAR1979 said: San Mateo Bros loves playing them Mind Games. Gives them a smug sense of self satisfaction. Yet unbelievably there is one Boston based OA art dealer who is far worse. At the show yesterday, I saw an Alan Moore page from one of the Phantom Stranger’s origin stories, without the lead character, with Orlando’s art. for $3,700. I bought one with the character a few years ago for around $600. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAY1979 Posted August 28, 2023 Share Posted August 28, 2023 On 8/28/2023 at 1:39 PM, Rick2you2 said: At the show yesterday, I saw an Alan Moore page from one of the Phantom Stranger’s origin stories, without the lead character, with Orlando’s art. for $3,700. I bought one with the character a few years ago for around $600. knowing those involved i question if the page was even from the Moore story. 3/4 of the book was not. U positive it was from the moore orlando story? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick2you2 Posted August 28, 2023 Author Share Posted August 28, 2023 On 8/28/2023 at 2:34 PM, MAR1979 said: knowing those involved i question if the page was even from the Moore story. 3/4 of the book was not. U positive it was from the moore orlando story? When it comes to Phantom Stranger stories, hell yeh. Besides, it was even written on the top, Phantom Stranger. Secret Origins no. 10. I have page 3. He has p. 4. Of the other 3 stories, one has recently shown up as individual pages (Colon), one exists as a whole story (Garcia-Lopez), and one is still missing (Aparo). So is the cover, by Aparo, a hot item. alxjhnsn 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...