Prince Namor Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 13 hours ago, mattn792 said: Your analysis of I-III is spot on. However, especially based on where I cut your quote off, I think your analysis of the fan base's reaction to TLJ is way off base. The unknown is hardly the problem. At least from my own viewpoint, the plot of TLJ was actually very well premised, but the execution of it was eight shades of awful. Largely because it suffered from many of the same pitfalls as I-III, with one glaring exception -- there already was a baseline for all of the characters who had already appeared within IV-VII. I-III introduced so many new ones, giving Lucas had plenty of leeway on developing them. VIII, not so much. I don't follow. Darth Maul was well developed? Qui-Gon was well developed? Two of the cooler characters he created he killed off and then completely forgot about them! He spent a huge portion of the film on the Gungan's, which really, no one gives two sneezes about and play no real part in the history and importance of anything in the Star Wars Universe. Grievous? Dooku? Boring one dimensional villains. Even the most interesting character in the Star Wars Universe, Darth Vader/Anakin Skywalker is BORING in these movies. Hayden Christensen was just bland, and his chemistry with Portman almost zero... bland acting, horrible written dialogue, and no characterization.... 13 hours ago, mattn792 said: But rather than run with the well established baseline, 1 Wait... compared to the Pre-quels???? Where'd midichlorians come from? The biggest left turn in the whole franchise came from the Pre-quels! 13 hours ago, mattn792 said: the TLJ politburo choose to take out the editing pen, toss all established baselines in the trash, and then dance on the landfill they ended up in. Think about what we already knew about the characters from IV-VII, and then compare that to the following: Leia - Can survive close proximity warhead explosions and exposure to deep space for an extended period of time. And can either fly, or is now Magneto. 2 Who knew Yoda could leap around like a jack rabbit? 13 hours ago, mattn792 said: Luke - Would've fit right in on the set of Maury shouting "Wha'evah! I do what I wahnt!" 1 Any complaints of whining over over-emoting, and I include even Kylo in this, are FAR overshadowed by the portrayal of the greatest villain in the universe and his ENDLESS whining "Obi-Wan just doesn't believe in me" in those prequels. Embarrassing. 13 hours ago, mattn792 said: Snoke - Dresses like a refugee from Liberace's garage sale, is about as menacing as Eeyore. I'll counter with Jar Jar. 13 hours ago, mattn792 said: Kylo - Never wears a shirt. Well.. he DOES wear a shirt, but... 13 hours ago, mattn792 said: BB8 - Got the II/III R2D2 treatment, and is now a one droid wrecking crew ready to take on the entire First Order. If R2D2 was built for military purposes to assist in battle flights, why wouldn't future droids have military functions? And: Anakin bulit C3PO!!! What??? Why would his mom need a protocol droid? 13 hours ago, mattn792 said: The ships - suddenly need a Citgo (etc.) It was basically like watching an entirely different franchise. Change was obviously coming to the Star Wars franchise just based on the original casts' age (and sadly, Carrie Fisher's untimely death), but TLJ wasn't change -- it was an Axel Alonso on the franchise's history. 2 The alternative was a series reboot ala Star Trek. 13 hours ago, mattn792 said: So just like with Marvel's scorched earth policy on their heroes, the backlash to TLJ is well justified. Hunh? NOTHING in the Marvel Universe is unusable again and NONE of the main characters ever goes away for ever. Why people use that term for a company so white knuckled with their properties is beyond me. 13 hours ago, mattn792 said: But you and others have already pointed it out -- people are still going to show up in droves, if nothing else in hope that Star Wars was made "right" again. It's a sci-fi Floyd Mayweather. Going forward, maybe Disney will stop releasing garbage with the Star Wars brand on it. Or maybe we really are in the "Spaceballs: The Flamethrower!" marketing era. Only time will tell. Not everyone thinks it's garbage though. And as the prequels have shown us... over time people accept change. ComicConnoisseur 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince Namor Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 10 hours ago, Azkaban said: that sounds better than what we got I know, right? I'd go to the theater to see that instead of waiting to watch these silly movies on airplanes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattn792 Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 (edited) @Chuck Gower -- Sorry, but I honestly have no idea what the overall point of your retort is. Are you defending TLJ? Hating on the new cast? Hating on those you consider fanboys? Defending Axel Alonso for some reason? Help. Edited July 23, 2018 by mattn792 More Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRaven Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 (edited) I have it: Next Star Wars movie... The movie opens replaying Lukes death scene from TLJ with Luke de-robing ala-obi-won. Screen is black for a brief pause and we segue-way into Wil Wheaton bolting upright in his bed, clutching his chest, "it was all a dream". He then flips on a light revealing his commander quarters on the starship enterprise. New series "Star Wars Trek" "Star Wrek" ensues. Now that we have effectively caused the suicide of both franchises, pop culture finally moves on. Kudos to @mattn792 for the suggested series rename. Edited July 23, 2018 by RedRaven Azkaban 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattn792 Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 "Star Wars Trek"…"Star Wars Trek"…"Star Wrek"! We've done it @RedRaven !!! RedRaven 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRaven Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 Just now, mattn792 said: "Star Wars Trek"…"Star Wars Trek"…"Star Wrek"! We've done it @RedRaven !!! Excellent improvement to the title!!! mattn792 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince Namor Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 28 minutes ago, mattn792 said: @Chuck Gower -- Sorry, but I honestly have no idea what the overall point of your retort is. Are you defending TLJ? Hating on the new cast? Hating on those you consider fanboys? Defending Axel Alonso for some reason? Help. There are a group of fans who want to convince us that: A) TLJ is the worst movie ever made, or at least the worst in the SW’s universe. I don’t agree. So in discussion I counter. That’s how it works in a discussion forum. B) That somehow TLJ is a financial failure. Which is silly and easily refuted, yet, they continue to announce it and believe it. So I counter with facts. That’s how discussion works. C) That TLJ, unlike the other movies or media, have made glaring changes to the world of SW’s. Again, easily refuted. And we didn’t even get into the novels or comics or Jaxxon. So my point is this: I don’t agree with some of the points being made. So I counter with my opinions and facts. That’s how discussion in a forum works. Am I defending TLJ? I’m defending it form the points above. Am I hating on the new cast? No. I don’t think I hated on the new cast at all... I like the new cast of characters. Hating on those you consider fanboys? When fanboys or fans or even regular people post something I find interesting to respond to I do. No hate involved from ME. The unnatural hatred towards a MOVIE, comes from them. I mean, I was no fan of the Garfield Spider-man movies, but I certainly didn’t waste my time voting multiple negative entries into it’s Rotten Tomatoes Page to show people I’m ‘right’; or repeating some lie about it over and over to sway the view. ComicConnoisseur 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRaven Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 mattn792 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattn792 Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 14 minutes ago, Chuck Gower said: There are a group of fans who want to convince us that: A) TLJ is the worst movie ever made, or at least the worst in the SW’s universe. I don’t agree. So in discussion I counter. That’s how it works in a discussion forum. B) That somehow TLJ is a financial failure. Which is silly and easily refuted, yet, they continue to announce it and believe it. So I counter with facts. That’s how discussion works. C) That TLJ, unlike the other movies or media, have made glaring changes to the world of SW’s. Again, easily refuted. And we didn’t even get into the novels or comics or Jaxxon. So my point is this: I don’t agree with some of the points being made. So I counter with my opinions and facts. That’s how discussion in a forum works. Am I defending TLJ? I’m defending it form the points above. Am I hating on the new cast? No. I don’t think I hated on the new cast at all... I like the new cast of characters. Hating on those you consider fanboys? When fanboys or fans or even regular people post something I find interesting to respond to I do. No hate involved from ME. The unnatural hatred towards a MOVIE, comes from them. I mean, I was no fan of the Garfield Spider-man movies, but I certainly didn’t waste my time voting multiple negative entries into it’s Rotten Tomatoes Page to show people I’m ‘right’; or repeating some lie about it over and over to sway the view. I see. Even though my original post didn't offer any argument toward points A, B, or C (but fwiw, like you I don't agree with any of them). Nor did I try to revoke your right to discuss, just merely asked for some additional clarification on what you were getting at. But your condescension is clearly evident, so at least I know where to file your opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince Namor Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 1 hour ago, mattn792 said: I see. Even though my original post didn't offer any argument toward points A, B, or C (but fwiw, like you I don't agree with any of them). Nor did I try to revoke your right to discuss, just merely asked for some additional clarification on what you were getting at. But your condescension is clearly evident, so at least I know where to file your opinion. If it came off as condescending, then I sincerely apologize. Maybe I took too harshly the "Sorry, but I honestly have no idea what the overall point of your retort is." Even though those ARE my main points listed above, I was responding more to YOUR specific opinions in my response, which is why I nest the direct quotes, because I found those more interesting than what anyone else had brought up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince Namor Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 And what, no one gives me props for bringing up Jaxxon in the discussion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRaven Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Chuck Gower said: And what, no one gives me props for bringing up Jaxxon in the discussion? When I was buying the comic as a 10 year old I loved that green stupid rabbit. Spent HOURS drawing variants of this cover... Edited July 23, 2018 by RedRaven ComicConnoisseur and Prince Namor 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bentbryan Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 I must be missing something but I haven’t seen anyone claim the TLJ is a financial failure. No doubt it made a boat-load of money. But not because it was a great movie, it had a built-in fan base that was going to see it anyway. The backlash occurred with Solo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince Namor Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 1 hour ago, bentbryan said: I must be missing something but I haven’t seen anyone claim the TLJ is a financial failure. No doubt it made a boat-load of money. But not because it was a great movie, it had a built-in fan base that was going to see it anyway. The backlash occurred with Solo. The backlash occurred with TLJ. Solo's performance just reinforced what the haters believe - everyone is abandoning the Star Wars movies because of the outrage over TLJ. Search online. The idea of TLJ not living up to TFA as a financial disappointment has been there long before Solo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bentbryan Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 27 minutes ago, Chuck Gower said: The backlash occurred with TLJ. Solo's performance just reinforced what the haters believe - everyone is abandoning the Star Wars movies because of the outrage over TLJ. Search online. The idea of TLJ not living up to TFA as a financial disappointment has been there long before Solo. Well you said ‘financial failure’ which is not the same as a ‘disappointment’. And yes TLJ didn’t have the same numbers as TFA, but it never was going to do that anyway. It just didn’t have the same emotional drive as TFA (SW returning to the big screen after a decade). What you are referring to are the box office analysts projections. It fell short but still wound up ninth largest gross all time, making something like 5.25 x cost of production. That is not a failure. People didn’t go see Solo because (I have to quote because I can’t take credit) “The Last Jedi takes one of the most beloved franchises of all time, throws it into the trunk of a car and then backs it into a river.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince Namor Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 2 hours ago, bentbryan said: Well you said ‘financial failure’ which is not the same as a ‘disappointment’. And yes TLJ didn’t have the same numbers as TFA, but it never was going to do that anyway. It just didn’t have the same emotional drive as TFA (SW returning to the big screen after a decade). What you are referring to are the box office analysts projections. It fell short but still wound up ninth largest gross all time, making something like 5.25 x cost of production. That is not a failure. 2 Correct. But some are attaching it's 'failure to live up those expectations' with the failure of Solo at the box office to say that the franchise is in trouble. 2 hours ago, bentbryan said: People didn’t go see Solo because (I have to quote because I can’t take credit) “The Last Jedi takes one of the most beloved franchises of all time, throws it into the trunk of a car and then backs it into a river.” That's some people's opinion. That doesn't make it the reason everyone else who didn't see it, didn't go see it. I was fine with TLJ. My friends were fine with TLJ. None of us went to see Solo because we just didn't have an interest in a Han Solo movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince Namor Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 Let's get real. The studio could care less what the FANS think. Kathleen Kennedy has made 4 movies under the Star Wars brand and three of the four have made over a Billion Dollars. (Previous to that she spent 35 years producing some of the biggest movies ever made - from the Indiana Jones movies to the Jurassic Park movies.) That's what they care about. She's one of the few people in the world actually qualified to do the job who actually WANTS the responsibility of it. Her first four Star Wars movies have made a combined $4.775 Billion worldwide on a combined production and marketing budget of $1.6 Billion (source: Forbes). That's over THREE BILLION dollars after cost. The only thing that'll happen to her is she may step down after IX just from the fatigue of dealing with this franchise. bentbryan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bentbryan Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 11 hours ago, Chuck Gower said: Let's get real. The studio could care less what the FANS think. Kathleen Kennedy has made 4 movies under the Star Wars brand and three of the four have made over a Billion Dollars. (Previous to that she spent 35 years producing some of the biggest movies ever made - from the Indiana Jones movies to the Jurassic Park movies.) That's what they care about. She's one of the few people in the world actually qualified to do the job who actually WANTS the responsibility of it. Her first four Star Wars movies have made a combined $4.775 Billion worldwide on a combined production and marketing budget of $1.6 Billion (source: Forbes). That's over THREE BILLION dollars after cost. The only thing that'll happen to her is she may step down after IX just from the fatigue of dealing with this franchise. Ha well if they keep to the original plan of giving RJ an entire trilogy then yes I will whole-heartedly agree with you that they don’t care what fans think. That could come back to bite them tho especially trying to pump out a new movie every year. The only problem I have with KK is how pleased she was with RJ (who is just an abhorrent story teller). Hopefully she smartens up and jettisons him before it’s too late. The truth is we are never going to get another movie on the same level as 4,5 and 6. And I’m totally ok with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
october Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 1 minute ago, bentbryan said: Ha well if they keep to the original plan of giving RJ an entire trilogy then yes I will whole-heartedly agree with you that they don’t care what fans think. That could come back to bite them tho especially trying to pump out a new movie every year. The only problem I have with KK is how pleased she was with RJ (who is just an abhorrent story teller). Hopefully she smartens up and jettisons him before it’s too late. The truth is we are never going to get another movie on the same level as 4,5 and 6. And I’m totally ok with that. We also aren't 12 anymore. Even if they did produce something just as good, we wouldn't like it as much. This is a pretty common fan blind spot. The movies/TV/video games aren't different....WE are. Prince Namor and Larryw7 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince Namor Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 1 minute ago, october said: We also aren't 12 anymore. Even if they did produce something just as good, we wouldn't like it as much. This is a pretty common fan blind spot. The movies/TV/video games aren't different....WE are. Abso-freakin-lutely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
