STAR WARS : Episode IX December 20, 2019 6 6

[Logan510]

10 minutes ago, october said:

We also aren't 12 anymore. Even if they did produce something just as good, we wouldn't like it as much. 

This is a pretty common fan blind spot. The movies/TV/video games aren't different....WE are. 

I understand the phenomenon of "things aren't as good as when I was a kid" or " that we tend to like things we're exposed to first ( which explains the popularity of a horrible character like Venom ).

But what you mention IS different. With the advent of CGI in the early 1990's the game was changed forever. How many things have we seen that are short on plot but long on the FX be the most commercially viable?

I like plenty of new movies/TV shows/games...it's quite possible that the new Star Wars films are just bad 

[october]

9 minutes ago, Logan510 said:

the new Star Wars films are just bad 

Plenty of people outside of a certain obvious demographic disagree. 

I personally thought they were fine, but I don't understand the fervent love for Star Wars movies in the first place. They range from fun to awful, but never rise much above good quality blockbuster/popcorn fare for me....maybe that's why I don't get the hatred for the new movies. I am not emotionally invested in this franchise. 

[october]

That's not to say there weren't some awful scenes in TLJ. Leia-Poppins and the milking were pretty silly and having the "drama" revolve around a slow-speed chase involving starships was beyond dumb. 

[Prince Namor]

Since the first movie, which exceeded the expectations of anyone involved, Star Wars has always been about expanding their demographic and selling more merchandise. 

No one will ever convince me that the creation of ‘Ewoks’ was for the benefit of story continuity. They were created to market to children and sell more toys.

We don’t see that when we’re 10-13, we just see the ‘illusion’ and we’re mesmerized. Most people, as they grow up, see it for what it is, can still either enjoy it or not, and remember it fondly and move on. Some, not so much.

Be careful when treading on people’s nostalgia around here. They cling to it with a vice grip like an alocoholic on his last bottle. 

[bentbryan]

4 hours ago, october said:

We also aren't 12 anymore. Even if they did produce something just as good, we wouldn't like it as much. 

This is a pretty common fan blind spot. The movies/TV/video games aren't different....WE are. 

Couldn’t disagree more. The original trilogy still holds up quite well.  It’s because it was a well written arc.  

[Broke as a Joke]

We aren't 12 anymore but that doesn't stop me from having a big smile on my face watching a Marvel movie like Infinity War.  If it's a good movie kids and adults will gravitate towards it.  The Last Jedi had many cringe worthy moments that had me embarrassed to be sitting in the theater watching it.

But hey, money...

[mattn792]

1 hour ago, Broke as a Joke said:

We aren't 12 anymore but that doesn't stop me from having a big smile on my face watching a Marvel movie like Infinity War.  If it's a good movie kids and adults will gravitate towards it.  The Last Jedi had many cringe worthy moments that had me embarrassed to be sitting in the theater watching it.

But hey, money...

Agree with the others who've said it - being not 12 years old anymore has nothing to do with it.  If anything, I appreciate great movies from all genres even more as I get older (and Empire definitely has a spot on that list).

TLJ is ridiculed as bad because its a badly made movie, plain and simple.  It was insulting to the senses, much like any commercial that refers to Michelob Ultra as "beer".

Edited July 25, 2018 by mattn792
Grammer chek

[Prince Namor]

14 hours ago, mattn792 said:

Agree with the others who've said it - being not 12 years old anymore has nothing to do with it.  If anything, I appreciate great movies from all genres even more as I get older (and Empire definitely has a spot on that list).

TLJ is ridiculed as bad because its a badly made movie, plain and simple.  It was insulting to the senses, much like any commercial that refers to Michelob Ultra as "beer".

And that's YOUR opinion. No matter how loudly, or often your group of haters hate on this movie, there are still far more people who feel otherwise. 

Opinions are subjective. Sales numbers show a different story, and besides being the #8 movie of all time, its the biggest selling DVD/Blu-Ray of 2018 by far. 

It wasn't just a great seller on DVD/Blu-Ray, it was the BIGGEST seller.

That's not a movie people hate, it's a movie people LOVE.

But not only did audiences love it, but DISNEY loved it. They gave Rian Johnson creative control to do a whole new trilogy of films. 

That shows how much the studio thinks of the opinions of 35-55 year old fan boys who's lives are incomplete because the Star Wars story isn't going the way THEY want it to. Weird. And why should they care? For one thing, the unnatural emotional investment those fans have in the films is not the studio's concern, just as long as those fans continue to support it with their wallet. 

And even if the studio for some odd reason DID want to consider the feedback, they SHOULDN'T. Because those same fan boys are party to the type of mindset that came up with the 'mary sue' BS, and harassed and ran Kelly Marie Tran off of social media, and tried the same with John Boyega over the color of his skin... it's a toxic, hateful, spiteful group within that fan base that hides behind 'it's a poorly made movie'. 

Really, F them to the highest degree.

And in almost 50 years of watching and reviewing movies, I DON'T understand yours or anyone's 'badly made movie' statement at all. The Last Jedi is pretty much the same thing I've seen in all the Star Wars movies. There were cringe-worthy moments in ALL of the Star Wars movies. Really, this is just another Star Wars movie, and in a few years it'll be just as accepted and a part of the Star Wars Uinverse as those silly Prequels were.

 

[Logan510]

Do you have stock in Disney or something?

When did selling well become the sole arbiter of quality?

[mattn792]

On ‎7‎/‎23‎/‎2018 at 12:52 PM, Chuck Gower said:

If it came off as condescending, then I sincerely apologize.

 

2 hours ago, Chuck Gower said:

And that's YOUR opinion. No matter how loudly, or often your group of haters hate on this movie, there are still far more people who feel otherwise. 

Opinions are subjective. Sales numbers show a different story, and besides being the #8 movie of all time, its the biggest selling DVD/Blu-Ray of 2018 by far. 

It wasn't just a great seller on DVD/Blu-Ray, it was the BIGGEST seller.

That's not a movie people hate, it's a movie people LOVE.

But not only did audiences love it, but DISNEY loved it. They gave Rian Johnson creative control to do a whole new trilogy of films. 

That shows how much the studio thinks of the opinions of 35-55 year old fan boys who's lives are incomplete because the Star Wars story isn't going the way THEY want it to. Weird. And why should they care? For one thing, the unnatural emotional investment those fans have in the films is not the studio's concern, just as long as those fans continue to support it with their wallet. 

And even if the studio for some odd reason DID want to consider the feedback, they SHOULDN'T. Because those same fan boys are party to the type of mindset that came up with the 'mary sue' BS, and harassed and ran Kelly Marie Tran off of social media, and tried the same with John Boyega over the color of his skin... it's a toxic, hateful, spiteful group within that fan base that hides behind 'it's a poorly made movie'. 

Really, F them to the highest degree.

And in almost 50 years of watching and reviewing movies, I DON'T understand yours or anyone's 'badly made movie' statement at all. The Last Jedi is pretty much the same thing I've seen in all the Star Wars movies. There were cringe-worthy moments in ALL of the Star Wars movies. Really, this is just another Star Wars movie, and in a few years it'll be just as accepted and a part of the Star Wars Uinverse as those silly Prequels were.

 

It truly is amazing that anyone could possibly find you condescending...

[Prince Namor]

1 hour ago, mattn792 said:

 

It truly is amazing that anyone could possibly find you condescending...

When you state your opinion as fact, despite the factual evidence to the contrary, reality can seem condescending.

I'll add that on top of it being the 8th highest grossing film of ALL TIME, and pulling in over $1 billion dollars, and being the fastest and best selling DVD of 2018, that....

CRITICS, who tend to NOT be all caught up in the 'Star Wars is my life mentality', LOVED it:

91% on Rotten Tomatoes (a site where a Facebook group claims they botted the audience score to skew it low because he hates women)

85% Metacritic Score

as well as regular users:

73% USER rating on imdb

and actual movie goers:

An 'A' from Cinemascore, the industry leader in polling movie goers as they leave the theater.

An 89% from ComScore/Screen Engine 

(Those are both scientific, statistically accurate exit poll numbers that studios use vs listening to online blabber.) 

 

But back to the Rotten Tomatoes controversy: The web site obviously denies it, but according to reports someone... affiliated with a Facebook group called “Down With Disney’s Treatment of Franchises and its Fanboys” has claimed that he enlisted bots to spam Rotter Tomatoes with negative reviews of “Last Jedi". That’s allegedly because he was angry about “Star Wars” producers emasculating characters like Luke Skywalker (Mark Hamill) and Poe Dameron (Oscar Isaac). “I’m sick and tired of men being portrayed as insufficiently_thoughtful_persons,” the unnamed alt-righter said. “There was a time we ruled society and I want to see that again.” 

Add to that what happened to Kelly Marie Tran, John Boyega, the freakin' 'mary sue' BS, and...

Well all of THIS, as well as my own experience viewing the movie, is why I have a gruff attitude toward those who want to tell me 'what is'.

I look at the facts. I research the information. I DON'T just go with how I PERSONALLY FEEL and then find and post a meme that agrees with it so that I can say, SEE! EVERYONE feels the same!

 

There's a difference between my opinion and what is fact. Not everyone gets that. And I don't mind pointing it out. 

I don't consider it condescending, I consider it a public service.

Edited July 25, 2018 by Chuck Gower

[Logan510]

People can post facts without being condescending, some can’t and not everyone gets that...obviously.

[mattn792]

3 hours ago, Logan510 said:

Do you have stock in Disney or something?

When did selling well become the sole arbiter of quality?

DIS closed up $0.47 today, which I will fully attribute to @Chuck Gower's daily screeds. 

Sadly for him, I still think TLJ sucks.  Perhaps more screeds are needed...  

[Prince Namor]

 

9 minutes ago, mattn792 said:

DIS closed up $0.47 today, which I will fully attribute to @Chuck Gower's daily screeds. 

Sadly for him, I still think TLJ sucks.  Perhaps more screeds are needed...  

It's not sad for me, you're entitled to your opinion, which I made clear. 

It's when you present your opinion as fact, with no factual evidence to back it up, that you will get dissenting opinions. That's normal for discussions of all kinds, including on chat forums. If I go around saying "The sky is green, and everyone thinks so!", I would rightly expect some feedback to the contrary.

It's ok to not have any actual rebuttals, I didn't expect you to, as the flaw in your reasoning was pretty evident from the very beginning.

Edited July 25, 2018 by Chuck Gower

[mattn792]

22 minutes ago, Chuck Gower said:

 

It's not sad for me, you're entitled to your opinion, which I made clear. 

It's when you present your opinion as fact, with no factual evidence to back it up, that you will get dissenting opinions. That's normal for discussions of all kinds, including on chat forums. If I go around saying "The sky is green, and everyone thinks so!", I would rightly expect some feedback to the contrary.

It's ok to not have any actual rebuttals, I didn't expect you to, as the flaw in your reasoning was pretty evident from the very beginning.

Nah son, that won’t cut it.  I’m thinking like a 5000 word minimum essay on the socioeconomic impact of TLJ on the major filming locales.  Al least three sources per locale, multiple adjectives per sentence, classical Elizabethan English...the works.

Me and the “group of haters” will be standing by.  I think if you can convince us how deeply, deeply flawed our opinions are, you can add at least $0.05 to next quarter’s EPS.

[bentbryan]

2 hours ago, Chuck Gower said:

When you state your opinion as fact, despite the factual evidence to the contrary, reality can seem condescending.

I'll add that on top of it being the 8th highest grossing film of ALL TIME, and pulling in over $1 billion dollars, and being the fastest and best selling DVD of 2018, that....

CRITICS, who tend to NOT be all caught up in the 'Star Wars is my life mentality', LOVED it:

91% on Rotten Tomatoes (a site where a Facebook group claims they botted the audience score to skew it low because he hates women)

85% Metacritic Score

as well as regular users:

73% USER rating on imdb

and actual movie goers:

An 'A' from Cinemascore, the industry leader in polling movie goers as they leave the theater.

An 89% from ComScore/Screen Engine 

(Those are both scientific, statistically accurate exit poll numbers that studios use vs listening to online blabber.) 

 

But back to the Rotten Tomatoes controversy: The web site obviously denies it, but according to reports someone... affiliated with a Facebook group called “Down With Disney’s Treatment of Franchises and its Fanboys” has claimed that he enlisted bots to spam Rotter Tomatoes with negative reviews of “Last Jedi". That’s allegedly because he was angry about “Star Wars” producers emasculating characters like Luke Skywalker (Mark Hamill) and Poe Dameron (Oscar Isaac). “I’m sick and tired of men being portrayed as insufficiently_thoughtful_persons,” the unnamed alt-righter said. “There was a time we ruled society and I want to see that again.” 

Add to that what happened to Kelly Marie Tran, John Boyega, the freakin' 'mary sue' BS, and...

Well all of THIS, as well as my own experience viewing the movie, is why I have a gruff attitude toward those who want to tell me 'what is'.

I look at the facts. I research the information. I DON'T just go with how I PERSONALLY FEEL and then find and post a meme that agrees with it so that I can say, SEE! EVERYONE feels the same!

 

There's a difference between my opinion and what is fact. Not everyone gets that. And I don't mind pointing it out. 

I don't consider it condescending, I consider it a public service.

Transformers made a ton of money as well. Does that make it good??

And you really don’t offer up much in the way of ‘facts’. Gross numbers can be pulled up instantly along with IMDB and RT and that’s not what most of this discussion has been about anyway. Regardless your focus is to be a argumentative, condescending and passive aggressive with your ‘fanboy’ comments and such. Nobody is going crazy in this thread about TLJ. Nobody is tossing racial insults at the actors here but yet you feel the need to bring it up a couple times and paint the people in this thread as toxic fans (which is absolutely a thing now) 

 

As far as public service is concerned I’ll give one to you now. When you speak to people on forums and social media, address them as tho you were standing in an elevator with them.  The discussion is usually much polite. 

[Prince Namor]

6 minutes ago, mattn792 said:

Nah son, that won’t cut it.  I’m thinking like a 5000 word minimum essay on the socioeconomic impact of TLJ on the major filming locales.  Al least three sources per locale, multiple adjectives per sentence, classical Elizabethan English...the works.

Me and the “group of haters” will be standing by.  I think if you can convince us how deeply, deeply flawed our opinions are, you can add at least $0.05 to next quarter’s EPS.

Now you're just being silly.

[Prince Namor]

4 minutes ago, bentbryan said:

Transformers made a ton of money as well. Does that make it good??

 

Good is subjective. It's an opinion.

Continuing a story in movies is all about if the movie made money or not. It's ONE way to gauge its success.

If they keep making the movies because they're successful financially... and people keep going to see them... isn't that an indication they're at least somewhat good? Regardless of if I think they are or not?

4 minutes ago, bentbryan said:

And you really don’t offer up much in the way of ‘facts’. Gross numbers can be pulled up instantly along with IMDB and RT and that’s not what most of this discussion has been about anyway.

 

Sure it is. It's one way to measure it. You can't measure its value or if its good by a handful of opinions.

And I expanded my facts to INCLUDE a large number of opinions. It made money. It scored highly with critics. It scored highly with fans. There are a vocal group that hates it.

That sounds like a winner to me.

4 minutes ago, bentbryan said:

 

Regardless your focus is to be a argumentative, 

1

Why is that when anyone in this generation is disagreed with it's considered argumentative?

4 minutes ago, bentbryan said:

condescending

 

4 minutes ago, bentbryan said:

and passive aggressive

 

How've I been passive aggressive? I think I've been extremely straightforward in my presentation.

4 minutes ago, bentbryan said:

with your ‘fanboy’ comments and such.

So.... you think.... that my displeasure with fanboys who terrorized a female actress from social media... is out of line....?

I never claimed it was anyone here. I just think this fanboy obsession with Star Wars is an unhealthy thing that can lead to weird behavior like that.

4 minutes ago, bentbryan said:

Nobody is going crazy in this thread about TLJ. Nobody is tossing racial insults at the actors here but yet you feel the need to bring it up a couple times and paint the people in this thread as toxic fans (which is absolutely a thing now) 

 

That's an assumption on your part, though certainly, those people do hide behind the 'it's just a bad film' because their real motives aren't socially acceptable. No one I've discussed this with on here, do I think is actually a part of that thought process.

4 minutes ago, bentbryan said:

 

As far as public service is concerned I’ll give one to you now. When you speak to people on forums and social media, address them as tho you were standing in an elevator with them.  The discussion is usually much polite. 

Oh... the people who've met me on here, and there are plenty... will tell you, I always speak exactly what I believe. Face to face or on the forum.

[Logan510]

I agree you always say what you believe, but the presentation has changed over the last couple of years and not for the better 

[RockMyAmadeus]

17 minutes ago, bentbryan said:

As far as public service is concerned I’ll give one to you now. When you speak to people on forums and social media, address them as tho you were standing in an elevator with them.  The discussion is usually much polite. 

I much prefer being direct, both in public and online. The truth is always offensive to many, but the temporary pain of truth is far preferable to the lifelong trauma of delusion, whether we inflict that delusion on others or ourselves. I don't speak for anyone but myself, but I'm pretty sure that anyone here with more than 100 posts is aware of how to talk to others, and doesn't need a primer on the matter. And the word is spelled "though."

Far too many people worship the form over the substance, being offended at how someone says what they say...and usually without just cause...rather than trying to understand what someone is saying, and why they're saying it.

And that's, in my opinion, a complete waste of time and energy.