ExNihilo Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 7 minutes ago, ComicCollectorMatt said: I wonder if I'll get a response... Second Blight 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CKinTO Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 This was posted on previous threads awhile ago (I think the Moderns Heating Up thread), but just in case people hadn't seen it, CBI had an article back in December discussing the potential books for 1st app. Whatever your opinion on CBI, just posting for reference https://comicbookinvest.com/2017/12/06/the-batman-who-laughs/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExNihilo Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 12 minutes ago, CKinTO said: This was posted on previous threads awhile ago (I think the Moderns Heating Up thread), but just in case people hadn't seen it, CBI had an article back in December discussing the potential books for 1st app. Whatever your opinion on CBI, just posting for reference https://comicbookinvest.com/2017/12/06/the-batman-who-laughs/ Print run and value are (should be) completely irrelevant when it comes to determining the 1st appearance because they have zero impact on the story. That's all that should matter: the art, the words, and the story. SpeedforceKJ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Okeydoke Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 The Metal #2 looks like more of a cameo appearance...It should get some cred, but TT12 is a full appearance where he is actually interacting in the story, plus being on the cover is a biggie. Those who are clamoring for Metal #2 to be the official CGC first appearance have likely invested in Metal #2, which is still a legitimate book...just not as much as TT12. I had a TT12, which I sold. So I have no horse in this race. Arkham 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ygogolak Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 2 hours ago, ExNihilo said: I wonder if I'll get a response... Snyder said Metal #2 was first in the reading order. That is the argument for that book. https://twitter.com/Ssnyder1835/status/906268744233742338 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpeedforceKJ Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 The fact that Snyder who is writting the book says that should end the argument. Second Blight 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ygogolak Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 3 hours ago, SpeedforceKJ said: The fact that Snyder who is writting the book says that should end the argument. The two books came out the same day. He just said that's the reading order. markanthonymartinez 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpeedforceKJ Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 33 minutes ago, ygogolak said: The two books came out the same day. He just said that's the reading order. Isn't the reading order apart of the story? If one simply chooses to read TT12 before DNM2 that doesnt change the fact the reading order for the story is DNM2 comes before TT12 making his appearance in that issue his first appearance prior to what happens in the story of TT12. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Second Blight Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, ygogolak said: The two books came out the same day. He just said that's the reading order. But the 2 books have different stories. TT12 has no connection to DNM2 story. Edited March 14, 2018 by ComicCollectorMatt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ygogolak Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 1 hour ago, SpeedforceKJ said: Isn't the reading order apart of the story? If one simply chooses to read TT12 before DNM2 that doesnt change the fact the reading order for the story is DNM2 comes before TT12 making his appearance in that issue his first appearance prior to what happens in the story of TT12. When it was released is what matters. Think of ret-con's, wouldn't those be first in reading order appearance of a character? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ygogolak Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 (edited) 53 minutes ago, ComicCollectorMatt said: But the 2 books have different stories. TT12 has no connection to DNM2 story. I didn't write the stories nor make that statement. Read his tweet for the reasoning. Edited March 14, 2018 by ygogolak markanthonymartinez 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CKinTO Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 Not to mention the fact that just because Snyder said DNM2 was first in reading order, that's not exactly the same as him saying DNM2 is the 1st appearance of BWL. Bottom line, we need CGC to take a view! I'm a little surprised at their answer of why they haven't yet - CGC takes a view all the time on which is 1st app vs not, without confirmation? markanthonymartinez 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ygogolak Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 4 hours ago, CKinTO said: Not to mention the fact that just because Snyder said DNM2 was first in reading order, that's not exactly the same as him saying DNM2 is the 1st appearance of BWL. Bottom line, we need CGC to take a view! I'm a little surprised at their answer of why they haven't yet - CGC takes a view all the time on which is 1st app vs not, without confirmation? And they get it wrong a lot more than they should. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tec-Tac-Toe Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 (edited) 16 hours ago, CKinTO said: Not to mention the fact that just because Snyder said DNM2 was first in reading order, that's not exactly the same as him saying DNM2 is the 1st appearance of BWL. Bottom line, we need CGC to take a view! I'm a little surprised at their answer of why they haven't yet - CGC takes a view all the time on which is 1st app vs not, without confirmation? Well, since DNM2 is first in reading order it can be argued that it is the first appearance of BWL compared to TT12 if one were, for example, to compare them to fraternal twins (and I will because of the characters involved and the two comic books), there is always an older/first born twin (first appearance twin, if you will; perhaps by a second). Thus, although DNM2 and TT12 were released on the same day, as posted here by others, DNM2, again, arguably, has the first appearance of BWL and TT12 has the first full appearance, as it is termed (Edit: although I believe some here argue that DNM2 is the first full appearance of the BWL). We shall C ... GC. Edited March 15, 2018 by Tec-Tac-Toe First full appearance - DNM2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ygogolak Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 6 hours ago, Tec-Tac-Toe said: Well, since DNM2 is first in reading order it can be argued that it is the first appearance of BWL compared to TT12 if one were, for example, to compare them to fraternal twins (and I will because of the characters involved and the two comic books), there is always an older/first born twin (first appearance twin, if you will; perhaps by a second). Thus, although DNM2 and TT12 were released on the same day, as posted here by others, DNM2, again, arguably, has the first appearance of BWL and TT12 has the first full appearance, as it is termed (Edit: although I believe some here argue that DNM2 is the first full appearance of the BWL). We shall C ... GC. Exact same scenario as the black suit Spidey. Market decided on Secret Wars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CKinTO Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 7 hours ago, Tec-Tac-Toe said: Well, since DNM2 is first in reading order it can be argued that it is the first appearance of BWL compared to TT12 if one were, for example, to compare them to fraternal twins (and I will because of the characters involved and the two comic books), there is always an older/first born twin (first appearance twin, if you will; perhaps by a second). Thus, although DNM2 and TT12 were released on the same day, as posted here by others, DNM2, again, arguably, has the first appearance of BWL and TT12 has the first full appearance, as it is termed (Edit: although I believe some here argue that DNM2 is the first full appearance of the BWL). We shall C ... GC. Yep, I hear you - your clarification on "1st full appearance" is what I was getting at, eg. just because DNM2 is first in reading order, it still might be thought of as a "cameo" and that TT12 is first full appearance. Was just noting that those are somewhat 2 different (though related) points, and just because Snyder said DNM2 is first, doesn't necessarily mean it's the true 1st app, as some others had been implying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilipB2k17 Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 1 hour ago, ygogolak said: Exact same scenario as the black suit Spidey. Market decided on Secret Wars. No, the market decided on ASM #252 over MTU #141, even though they both came out on exactly the same day (I have a specific memory of this when I went to buy them at my local comic shop, and recall having that exact discussion. The Shop was limiting how many copies of ASM 252 you could buy, but not #MTU 141). Secret Wars 8, however, would "come first in the reading order." ygogolak 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilipB2k17 Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 Just curious, but has the market REALLY decided that TT 12 is the 1st app of BMWL? Or, is this simply a supply and demand thing? Meaning, because there was a much lower print run on TT 12, its value is higher than DNM 2, and it just gained momentum as the "1st" appearance simply due to relative value? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CKinTO Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 4 minutes ago, PhilipB2k17 said: Just curious, but has the market REALLY decided that TT 12 is the 1st app of BMWL? Or, is this simply a supply and demand thing? Meaning, because there was a much lower print run on TT 12, its value is higher than DNM 2, and it just gained momentum as the "1st" appearance simply due to relative value? Yes agree... unfortunately the 2 are kind of intermingled, as the value for TT12 went up, people started indicating "1st app BWL" more frequently to get more views... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ygogolak Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 12 minutes ago, PhilipB2k17 said: No, the market decided on ASM #252 over MTU #141, even though they both came out on exactly the same day (I have a specific memory of this when I went to buy them at my local comic shop, and recall having that exact discussion. The Shop was limiting how many copies of ASM 252 you could buy, but not #MTU 141). Secret Wars 8, however, would "come first in the reading order." Ah, had my issues mixed up. At any rate, you see the similarity. Not surprising that ASM was chosen over MTU though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...