COPPER AGE BOOKS FUTURE VALUES

[joe_collector]

Wasnt that long ago dealers couldnt be bothered to bring 70s crappola books to shows!

 

When was this, 1988?

[Aman619]

much later than that. I started filling in my 70s runs in the late 90s and they were still really cheap. Couple bucks each, (Not the keys of course, they were 25 - 100 bucks) The trick was waiting for the pristine copies to get hawled out or located. Since I didnt want any VFs. Funny thing was, these being 70s books, when CGC came along and changed the grading, so many of these cheap NMs turned out to be, on closer inspection, beautiful flat glossy razor edged comics with an assortment of smallish flaws that would only grade as VFs..

 

but my point is that it took some time for the formerly worthless 70s comics to be considered valuable enough to sell at shows.. About the same time the 70s kids "came of age". So, even tho we have talked about this all before....time will tell how many 80s kids come back or are around in to years or so when ALien Worlds, American Flagg, Badger (fill in the blank) _________ , etc etc get the spotlight.

[joe_collector]

much later than that. I started filling in my 70s runs in the late 90s and they were still really cheap.

 

Well of course, the market CRASHED in the mid-90's and virtually everything common was inexpensive. I can remember buying an ASM 129 NM for $25 on EBay, and then humming andf hawing over whether to buy a few more at $30-$35. Commons were worth virtually nothing.

 

But let me tell you, in the late-80's and early-90's, those same "cheap Bronze comics" were worth quite a bit more.

[Aman619]

no, Joe. Youre still trying to create a macro-economic scenario out of what Im simply saying. Im not talking about 70s books selling for LESS than they did before a 90s crash or whatever. Im not talking about Ghost Rider #1 etc. Im talking about NOTHING 70s books, NEVER WAS books that NEVER sold for ANYthing over their puny $2 Guide prices because they were UNIVERSALLY considered Modern crappola books. Hulks over 200. DDs from 100 - 157. DC horror (like HOM etc) after the 100 pagers. JLA from 101 - 200. PLOP, etc etc . Im talking about the books you see now slabbed on Pedigree right now for $100 bucks and up.... I was filling in all the crapp books published after I quit buying in the 70s, and I was coming home from conventions with longboxes and a quickly crossed off wantlist.

 

Im not talking about post-crash depressed prices on keys. Im talking about 70s books that never had their day yet.....

[the blob]

jeez, how come i never saw any of these $25 NM ASM 129s on ebay? by "NM" do you mean VG that is called a NM? I was certainly looking around for them and bidding on this stuff, although I really didn't start until 1999. Maybe there were lots of deals in 1998, I dunno.

 

JC, I don't believe you. I think you're fibbing. Show me a receipt! Maybe you got lucky on some low feedback seller with a fuzzy scan, but there weren't lots of these opportunities day after day.

 

Oh yeah, what were we talking about again?

[JohnBull]

jeez, how come i never saw any of these $25 NM ASM 129s on ebay? by "NM" do you mean VG that is called a NM? I was certainly looking around for them and bidding on this stuff, although I really didn't start until 1999. Maybe there were lots of deals in 1998, I dunno.

 

JC, I don't believe you. I think you're fibbing. Show me a receipt! Maybe you got lucky on some low feedback seller with a fuzzy scan, but there weren't lots of these opportunities day after day.

 

Oh yeah, what were we talking about again?

 

The book nosedived in the 90's. I don't follow Marvel prices, but I guess it must have gone down to a quarter of what it's value was in the late 80's/early 90's.

 

Do you remember when Marvel Preview 2 was a hot item? I would think you'd struggle really hard to even approach it's current OS price, but there was a time when it comfortably outstripped it's guide value. Again, I doubt it's worth a quarter now of what it once was.

[johnenock]

I was bidding on a Flash 1(87) in cgc 9.8 awhile ago and was willing to pay 70 bones for the book, someone else was willing to pay 150 for the book with heavy bidding. Even though I'm sure the winner lost money from the monetary standpoint, I think he and other 80's collectors are always prepared to pay serious bank for the right book(9.8) be it key or not.

[micmack]

This is an honest question. If 9.6-9.8 level books are so plentiful of the copper age books, well where the hell are they? I'm not talking keys either. I've been to a couple of cons and numerous stores but when it comes to the high grade stuff, I can't find it. I'm lucky I spot something that's even a 9.4. Who really has them and why are they not out for sale?

[RaccoonRaccoon]

I agree with the points that most comics when first purchased are not close to a grade of 10. But that would mean that there is an "over supply" of high grade 9.0 to 9.6 books on the market. This is itself will depress prices for many many years to come. Also, the highest of the high grades, 9.8 and 10, how much of a premium will these grades get?

 

Example: ASM # 250

Unslabed in NM about $12 - $18

Slabbed at 9.0 - 9.4 about $16 - $25

Slabbed at 9.6 about $20 - $35

Slabbed at 9.8 about $55 - $85

Slabbed at 10 about $100 - $150

 

Am I way off? Am I undervaluing the 9.6 +?

[joe_collector]

jeez, how come i never saw any of these $25 NM ASM 129s on ebay? by "NM" do you mean VG that is called a NM? I was certainly looking around for them and bidding on this stuff, although I really didn't start until 1999. Maybe there were lots of deals in 1998, I dunno.

 

JC, I don't believe you. I think you're fibbing.

 

Prepare to eat those words, as I am absolutely certain that fellow forum members can back me up on EBay prices from 1998 or so. In fact, I remember seeing plenty in 1999 - are you sure you were on EBay throughout that year? Sure, some were VF, others VF/NM, but plenty of high-grade, unread ones too from noted sellers.

 

Late-1999 and 2000 were the points where key issues really started to take off, and CGC just made it worse. Before that, Bronze books were a virtual wasteland and you could buy any book (other than Hulk 181) for fractions of Guide.

 

Even after that there were deals to be found all over the place, if you wanted to look.

 

It seems that people who were not on EBay pre-CGC just don't understand how down and out the comic book market was at that point in time, or how much CGC has propped up high-grade prices since then.

[FlyingDonut]

jeez, how come i never saw any of these $25 NM ASM 129s on ebay? by "NM" do you mean VG that is called a NM? I was certainly looking around for them and bidding on this stuff, although I really didn't start until 1999. Maybe there were lots of deals in 1998, I dunno.

 

JC, I don't believe you. I think you're fibbing.

 

Prepare to eat those words, as I am absolutely certain that fellow forum members can back me up on EBay prices from 1998 or so. In fact, I remember seeing plenty in 1999 - are you sure you were on EBay throughout that year? Sure, some were VF, others VF/NM, but plenty of high-grade, unread ones too from noted sellers.

 

Late-1999 and 2000 were the points where key issues really started to take off, and CGC just made it worse. Before that, Bronze books were a virtual wasteland and you could buy any book (other than Hulk 181) for fractions of Guide.

 

Even after that there were deals to be found all over the place, if you wanted to look.

 

I've been on eBay since 1997. The deals you could find in the late 90s were insane. The exact reverse of what happens now happened on eBay all the time - you could buy stuff for nothing and sell it at a show and make big profits. Now the other way happens.

 

And the price on ASM 129 DIED in the 90s. I wouldn't be surprised if you could have gotten a NM one for under $40 easily.

[valiantman]

I agree with the points that most comics when first purchased are not close to a grade of 10. But that would mean that there is an "over supply" of high grade 9.0 to 9.6 books on the market. This is itself will depress prices for many many years to come. Also, the highest of the high grades, 9.8 and 10, how much of a premium will these grades get?

 

Example: ASM # 250

Unslabed in NM about $12 - $18

Slabbed at 9.0 - 9.4 about $16 - $25

Slabbed at 9.6 about $20 - $35

Slabbed at 9.8 about $55 - $85

Slabbed at 10 about $100 - $150

 

Am I way off? Am I undervaluing the 9.6 +?

 

I wrote a calculator for CGC pricing based on census counts.

(For Entertainment Purposes Only!!!)

 

Here's ASM #250 with an unslabbed NM value of $15:

http://www.gregholland.com/cgc/CGCcalc.asp?id=4062&val=15

[whetteon]

jeez, how come i never saw any of these $25 NM ASM 129s on ebay? by "NM" do you mean VG that is called a NM? I was certainly looking around for them and bidding on this stuff, although I really didn't start until 1999. Maybe there were lots of deals in 1998, I dunno.

 

JC, I don't believe you. I think you're fibbing.

 

Prepare to eat those words, as I am absolutely certain that fellow forum members can back me up on EBay prices from 1998 or so. In fact, I remember seeing plenty in 1999 - are you sure you were on EBay throughout that year? Sure, some were VF, others VF/NM, but plenty of high-grade, unread ones too from noted sellers.

 

Late-1999 and 2000 were the points where key issues really started to take off, and CGC just made it worse. Before that, Bronze books were a virtual wasteland and you could buy any book (other than Hulk 181) for fractions of Guide.

 

Even after that there were deals to be found all over the place, if you wanted to look.

 

I've been on eBay since 1997. The deals you could find in the late 90s were insane. The exact reverse of what happens now happened on eBay all the time - you could buy stuff for nothing and sell it at a show and make big profits. Now the other way happens.

 

And the price on ASM 129 DIED in the 90s. I wouldn't be surprised if you could have gotten a NM one for under $40 easily.

 

I don't know about eBay but I was in the San Jose area around 1998-1999 going to college. I hit up a couple of comic stores where I proceeded to buy X-Men 8 in VF+ condition for $15, Amazing Spider-Man #23 in VF for $18 and decided to past on a Marvel Feature 1 NM for $25 as I thought I could get a better deal. Those weren't really deals in those days. Just the normal prices for such books. Now those look like steals.

[the blob]

well, i know ASM 129 dropped a lot in 98/99, but it isn't something i was seeing for $25 in 1999 on ebay and I started buying in May and had been checking the whole thing out for a month before then. that's like 1/6 of guide even then. of course, grading seemed even more all over the place. I bid on everything like it was a VG, whether it was described as Fine, VF, NM, whatever, to be safe. With scans not as good and all that, and many sellers selling without scans (like I was doing), I guess people wound up getting VG prices for better books, but I still think you could bid on 5 "NM" books at $25 before you actually got a real one.

[RaccoonRaccoon]

WOW - ASM # 129 for $25 to $40! That's a pretty cool calculator you created Valiantman!!!

 

So based on the highest of the high grade theory, 9.8 or 10, does it pay to buy a common book from the last 5 years (2000 to present) that is CGC graded at 9.8? On Ebay I see ASM, pretty much books from the last few years graded 9.8 for $25 or so. Good idea???

 

I have to think there are tons that are not graded at thos grades, right?

[Aman619]

Im missing the point of this thread. Why is ASM 129 being discussed? Thats a solid Bronze book right? I know I was talking about nothing later 70s books...

[the blob]

why would people send in worthless 9.8s from the last 5 years to be graded except for some key issues? sure, some might sell for $25 (after you paid $15 to grade them), but a lot just sit there unpurchased and, with many, if you had a $9.99 opening bid, maybe all you get is that (and still maybe no bods). that's tying up a lot of money in a plastic case.

 

i'm happy that people have started to see the light on this. seriously, why should something people may not even be willing to pay cover price for suddenly be worth $25 because it's in a plastic slab?

[joe_collector]

but I still think you could bid on 5 "NM" books at $25 before you actually got a real one.

 

Not if you knew who to buy from.

[Norrin_Radd]

but I still think you could bid on 5 "NM" books at $25 before you actually got a real one.

 

Not if you knew who to buy from.

 

True.

[valiantman]

So based on the highest of the high grade theory, 9.8 or 10, does it pay to buy a common book from the last 5 years (2000 to present) that is CGC graded at 9.8? On Ebay I see ASM, pretty much books from the last few years graded 9.8 for $25 or so. Good idea???

 

I've always felt that CGC graded books will only matter in the future

if the raw version of the book matters in the future.

That can be a dangerous gamble for brand-spankin'-new issues.

 

If the raw book ends up basically worthless,

then a near-perfect CGC copy isn't much better.

 

Copper books appear to be in a timeframe where the newness has worn off,

and it's easy to separate the quality books from the rest of the pack...

without dropping $500-$1,000+ on high-grade CGC copies of the key issues.

 

Golden, Silver, and Bronze Age keys have already moved into higher dollar territory,

so it's a given that they've already laid the "longterm value foundation",

but without a trust fund, it can be daunting to run with the big dogs.

 

I'd rather pick up high grade copies of Copper Age books that are solid sellers in their raw state...

especially when CGC 9.8 copies are still available under $50-$100.

 

Just about any "new, hot" book can sell for $5 to $20 in the first year,

but it's a different thing to hold onto that value for 5 to 15 years.

 

Raw books that are still $5 to $20 after 10+ years are probably not a bad longterm pick,

CGC graded or not.