What percent of existing copies of Action 1, Detective 27, Superman 1, and Batman 1 are already CGC graded? 1 1

[valiantman]

What percent of existing copies of Action 1, Detective 27, Superman 1, and Batman 1 are already CGC graded?

[Chicago Boy]

 

[valiantman]

In addition to the anonymous poll above, I'd love to hear from some of the dealers who have personally bought and sold these four books through the years. 

[Wayne-Tec]

CGC Census (Universal in Parenthesis):

 

Action Comics #1

69 (40)

Detective Comics #27

67 (32)

Superman #1

143 (54)

Batman #1

252 (107)

 

The “Big-2” are awfully consistent. I do believe Tec #27 to be the slightly rarer book of the two due to Superman’s early popularity and the “No. 1” factor.

It’s always easier to estimate on the higher side (more than 50% unslabbed) because your opinion is covered when/if more surface. 

Something to keep in mind, there is all the incentive in the world to slab books for protection/display/resto check/resale and after nearly 20 years of slabbing, there are fewer blue label Action #1s and Tec #27s than there are states in the country.

[Chicago Boy]

23 minutes ago, valiantman said:

In addition to the anonymous poll above, I'd love to hear from some of the dealers who have personally bought and sold these four books through the years. 

+ 1.  

[Chicago Boy]

19 minutes ago, Wayne-Tec said:

CGC Census (Universal in Parenthesis):

 

Action Comics #1

69 (40)

Detective Comics #27

67 (32)

Superman #1

143 (54)

Batman #1

252 (107)

 

The “Big-2” are awfully consistent. I do believe Tec #27 to be the slightly rarer book of the two due to Superman’s early popularity and the “No. 1” factor.

It’s always easier to estimate on the higher side (more than 50% unslabbed) because your opinion is covered when/if more surface. 

Something to keep in mind, there is all the incentive in the world to slab books for protection/display/resto check/resale and after nearly 20 years of slabbing, there are fewer blue label Action #1s and Tec #27s than there are states in the country.

I never really thought about the issue # 1 vs # 27 comparison until it was brought to my attention recently. So do you personally believe there are more than 50-100 copies of the “ Big 2 “ that exist ?  Anyone know the original print run on Tec 27 ?? Was it more than the 207k for AC 1 

[Wayne-Tec]

14 minutes ago, Chicago Boy said:

I never really thought about the issue # 1 vs # 27 comparison until it was brought to my attention recently. So do you personally believe there are more than 50-100 copies of the “ Big 2 “ that exist ?  Anyone know the original print run on Tec 27 ?? Was it more than the 207k for AC 1 

I’m confident that there are more than 100 copies of each. How many more? That’s very tough to determine. My experience and conversations I’ve had with dealers and collectors over the years, I’d guess somewhere between 150-300 of each.

[porcupine48]

24 minutes ago, Chicago Boy said:

+ 1.  

me two 

You never know what's sitting in black hole collections.

Some of the stuff folks just on here have but have talked to me about in private is astounding.I'm not talking secret big four,but rare,expensive books.

Edited July 27, 2018 by porcupine48

[Chicago Boy]

12 minutes ago, Wayne-Tec said:

I’m confident that there are more than 100 copies of each. How many more? That’s very tough to determine. My experience and conversations I’ve had with dealers and collectors over the years, I’d guess somewhere between 150-300 of each.

GAtor, what say you ?  I think you once put Cap 1 at 300-500 and Tec 38 at almost 100 that you saw yourself over the years.  150-300 or 50-100

Edited July 27, 2018 by Chicago Boy

[G.A.tor]

there are a LOT of raw GA keys out there in collections...until they are ready to be sold, most owners are not motivated to spend money to grade their comic, or ship it to Fl from their home etc.

we will never know how many there are...

my estimate is 150+ of action 1 and tec 27 and with already 250+ batman 1 slabbed, I think my 300-500 est is pretty safe... Captain America 1 might be a tad less than Bat 1, and I think superman 1 a tad less than that...

but no one knows

[Chicago Boy]

3 minutes ago, G.A.tor said:

there are a LOT of raw GA keys out there in collections...until they are ready to be sold, most owners are not motivated to spend money to grade their comic, or ship it to Fl from their home etc.

we will never know how many there are...

my estimate is 150+ of action 1 and tec 27 and with already 250+ batman 1 slabbed, I think my 300-500 est is pretty safe... Captain America 1 might be a tad less than Bat 1, and I think superman 1 a tad less than that...

but no one knows

Now your just being modest    Thanks GA tor ! 

[rjpb]

There's very little reason to slab unless you are planning to sell, or think you might soon and want the added liquidity slabbing presumably brings. Very few people are going to be comfortable sending six or seven figure books to Sarasota before there is an economic incentive to do so. It might be easier to assess insurance value, but that's about the only other reason. 

Still, I imagine many of those who own raw copies are disproportionately older, and it will be interesting to see if substantial numbers of new to market copies surface as those owners or their heirs decide to liquidate their collections. 

 

[Mr bla bla]

4 hours ago, rjpb said:

There's very little reason to slab unless you are planning to sell, or think you might soon and want the added liquidity slabbing presumably brings. Very few people are going to be comfortable sending six or seven figure books to Sarasota before there is an economic incentive to do so. It might be easier to assess insurance value, but that's about the only other reason. 

Still, I imagine many of those who own raw copies are disproportionately older, and it will be interesting to see if substantial numbers of new to market copies surface as those owners or their heirs decide to liquidate their collections. 

 

On the contrary there should be a very high incentive to slab.

If you are a 60+ old timer sitting on a raw action 1 purchased a gazillion years ago. You would certainly be looking towards Sarasoto to get your book through resto evaluation, determine FMV, etc.

on the big two I doubt the conjecture that there should be more than eighty (80) of such old  timers currently sitting on unslabbed Action1 or Tec27.

they or their heirs would have come forward ( ie. Slabbed) by now.

[G.A.tor]

3 hours ago, Mr bla bla said:

On the contrary there should be a very high incentive to slab.

If you are a 60+ old timer sitting on a raw action 1 purchased a gazillion years ago. You would certainly be looking towards Sarasoto to get your book through resto evaluation, determine FMV, etc.

on the big two I doubt the conjecture that there should be more than eighty (80) of such old  timers currently sitting on unslabbed Action1 or Tec27.

they or their heirs would have come forward ( ie. Slabbed) by now.

And yet I know , or know of literally dozens of owners of various raw copies that haven’t come forward and slabbed and have no intention to anytime soon (keep in mind these are not all 80+ collectors , in fact very few are ) 

And I suspect I only know a smaller % just based on probabilities ...imagine how many past collectors that are out there that are not active enough today to be on the radar  ...it is certainly plausible if not down right probable 

Imo

[Chicago Boy]

28 minutes ago, G.A.tor said:

And yet I know , or know of literally dozens of owners of various raw copies that haven’t come forward and slabbed and have no intention to anytime soon (keep in mind these are not all 80+ collectors , in fact very few are ) 

And I suspect I only know a smaller % just based on probabilities ...imagine how many past collectors that are out there that are not active enough today to be on the radar  ...it is certainly plausible if not down right probable 

Imo

I personally know of 3 coverless copies of Tec 27 that are unslabbed and 2 Voldy ( one with cover ).......and I’m not “active” in the hobby in comparison  to dealers here on the boards.......

[G.A.tor]

18 minutes ago, Chicago Boy said:

I personally know of 3 coverless copies of Tec 27 that are unslabbed and 2 Voldy ( one with cover ).......and I’m not “active” in the hobby in comparison  to dealers here on the boards.......

There’s a fairly well known so cal collector that has 3 action 1s, 2 tec 27s and multiple of bat, supes and cap 1 in fortresses. When I asked him “why haven’t you certified them” his response was “why would I”...

Another Cali Collector has 2 each (1 raw, 1 coverless) action 1 & tec 27

collector in Nc that has bat 1s 3 deep in fortresses 

New Jersey collector has the big 3 and second big 3 in mylars (5 of the 6 have resto mind you)

certain Chicago collector has a raw action 1 he’s lets boardies thumb up at con dinners  

goes on and on

 

Tip of the iceberg folks...tip of the iceberg. 

Edited July 28, 2018 by G.A.tor

[Chicago Boy]

Keeping with the hero theme Even the “rare” AA 16. I’ve come across 3 raw copies ( not sure if they were complete ) in the last same number of years. Flash Comics 1–same thing.  

Edited July 28, 2018 by Chicago Boy

[Wayne-Tec]

10 hours ago, rjpb said:

There's very little reason to slab unless you are planning to sell, or think you might soon and want the added liquidity slabbing presumably brings. Very few people are going to be comfortable sending six or seven figure books to Sarasota before there is an economic incentive to do so. It might be easier to assess insurance value, but that's about the only other reason. 

Still, I imagine many of those who own raw copies are disproportionately older, and it will be interesting to see if substantial numbers of new to market copies surface as those owners or their heirs decide to liquidate their collections. 

 

I’ve collected GA keys for years and my preference since the early/mid 2000s has been to have valuable books slabbed. Access to reprints is available, so I’m able to “read” these books without risking grade degradation.

Not a big concern for a $100 book. But if you owned, say, a 5.0 Action Comics #1, every time you “read” it, thumb through it, it’s not difficult to turn a 5.0 into a 4.5.

If you’re a multimillionaire, perhaps the consequence there are insignificant. But I don’t believe the majority of raw Action #1 owners are so wealthy that such things cease to matter. Perhaps I’m wrong there.

The financial incentive to slab/sell books like Action #1 has never been greater. Hence, we’ve seen 69 copies slabbed by CGC (40 of which are blue label).

I’m not saying that there isn’t truth to the talk of raw copies sitting in collections of older generation collectors who aren’t motivated to slab. What I am saying is, considering all of the above, I’m apprehensive about just how many such examples remain publicly undiscovered under that context.

Edited July 28, 2018 by Wayne-Tec

[Sqeggs]

17 hours ago, porcupine48 said:

me two 

You never know what's sitting in black hole collections.

Moldy books? 

[rjpb]

5 hours ago, Mr bla bla said:

On the contrary there should be a very high incentive to slab.

If you are a 60+ old timer sitting on a raw action 1 purchased a gazillion years ago. You would certainly be looking towards Sarasoto to get your book through resto evaluation, determine FMV, etc.

on the big two I doubt the conjecture that there should be more than eighty (80) of such old  timers currently sitting on unslabbed Action1 or Tec27.

they or their heirs would have come forward ( ie. Slabbed) by now.

Those things only matter if you are thinking of selling ( or possibly for insurance reasons). I'm sure many old time collectors would be quite uncomfortable shipping out their prize possessions and then waiting weeks to get them back. Not to mention, once slabbed, they can no longer enjoy physically holding the book itself in their hands. 

There is also a cost factor. Some old-time collectors may be comic rich, but not too interested in shelling out a couple thousand or more to slab a book before they are ready to sell. 

I will leave it to others to speculate just how many raw copies are still floating around of the big books, it could be 80 , it could 380, I don't now, but I resist the notion that the owners are predisposed to get their books slabbed. If nothing else, inertia tends to win out when their isn't a compelling reason to do so. I only slab with intent to sell, and even then it feels a chore to pack, ship and fill out forms. I constantly delay, and frequently end up selling books raw that might be more profitable slabbed, though nothing of near the magnitude of the major keys of course.