JadeGiant Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 Trimpe is a C artist - NO Hulk is a B book - NO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timely Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 1 hour ago, PhilipB2k17 said: If it's not Wolvy: C Artist, B book, C-D page. Totally disagree on C-D level page. A "D" level page would have Bruce Banner on it, no Hulk. A "C" level page would have the Hulk on it picking flowers in a field or standing around. A "B" level page has the Hulk fighting, in this case, Wendigo. An "A" level page has the Hulk fighting, in this case, Wendigo... along with the 1st printed appearance of Wolverine! RabidFerret, J.Sid and Unca Ben 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlo M Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 a 2 hours ago, Timely said: Totally disagree on C-D level page. A "D" level page would have Bruce Banner on it, no Hulk. A "C" level page would have the Hulk on it picking flowers in a field or standing around. A "B" level page has the Hulk fighting, in this case, Wendigo. An "A" level page has the Hulk fighting, in this case, Wendigo... along with the 1st printed appearance of Wolverine! I personally think that the definition of A that most people on this thread gravitate towards is way too restrictive. Based on the above, there would be only one A page in the whole history of the Hulk book, as no page can come even close to the first Wolverine appearance! On the other had, a page with four high quality panels of Hulk battling Wendigo would be an A page in my book. Having said that, I agree that it is not that easy to find true A pages. I looked at my collection (around 80 pieces amassed in 20 years + of collecting) and I could count A pages on one single hand (and only a couple by the stricter definition) Personally - and I am throwing this out there just for fun and with no intention of offending anyone, the 1st appearance of Wolvie would be: B C A* (* Wolverine first appearance) Personally, I rank Trimpe second tier vis à vis Kirby etc, and on par with Sal Buscema (and I am a BIIIIIG Sal Buscema fan). Finally, the particular run where the page appeared is not really well known other than….that one panel and the fact that it was Wolverine's first appearance. So, here is my personal (three times underline personal, based purely on personal tastes and no pretense to be writing a book on comic art) list of A Marvel artists (and please note that I am probably most taken by artists not listed among them and, conversely, I would not collect some of the names listed...) Silver Age A* Kirby and Ditko (they belong to their own category) A JRomita, JBuscema, NAdams, JSteranko, GKane, WWood, GColan Bronze Age A JByrne, GPerez, JStarlin, BWindsor Smith Copper Age A Jim Lee, TMcFarlane, WSimonson And here is my attempt to identify some A runs at Marvel (remember, first appearances or "Face it Tiger" pages are A*): Silver Age ASM - Death of Gwen ASM - Some of the best ASM vs Goblin ASM drug issue ASM - best Ditko issues FF Coming of Galactus FF Doom and Silver Surfer FF Let there be Life Avengers Kree-Skrull war Bronze Age XM GS and 94 UXM Dark Phoenix saga UXM Days of future past DD Frank Miller run (is this still bronze age)? Jim Starlin's Cap Marvel / Warlock with Thanos Avengers Korvac saga (borderline….) Of course there are some single issues that would qualify as A even if they don't belong to a historic run. "This Man this Monster" comes to mind, for example. Carlo M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timely Posted August 15, 2018 Share Posted August 15, 2018 Good post. I'd also say any key fight page/story is "A" worthy, such as JIM #112 Thor vs Hulk, FF #12 Hulk vs Thing, Avengers/Defenders crossover battle pages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
First Upgrade Posted August 15, 2018 Share Posted August 15, 2018 I use a similar, albeit more complex, approach to evaluating original comic book art pages as our HOST has employed for evaluating the physical condition of a comic book... I understand and accept that not every 8.0 is 'created equal'...for example, one 8.0 may have specific 'defects' which another 8.0 does not. Nevertheless, both examples woupd grade 8.0... Nor, is every B level piece of original comic book art simply B level as a result of the exact same determing factors (defects/detractors), which I choose to define on a case by case basis... For me, there are perhaps too many specific characteristics, unique to an original comic book art piece which influence where the page 'grades'....quickly teasing apart those differences in characteristics such as general content, artist, artistic skill, aesthetic, composition, era, publisher, current market supply and demand, litigation or arbitration with the Estate, or even 'guesstimation of bidder valuation' (just to list a few) is a 'spooky' task...was or is the bidder a 'collector' or dealer, etc., can further complicate the analysis... It would be 'nice' to reach a 10-point grading scale where I could state with 'certainty', whether a piece is a 9.9, 9.8, 9.6, 9.4, 9.2, or 9.0, in regard to A-Level examples...and for all subsequent grade levels... For now, I am content with grading B level original comic book art pieces as being either B-, B-/B, B, B/B+, or B+ I described this piece, which I just moved, as being B-/B...(nevermind 'why')... And, at some point, you'll just 'know it's level 'when you see it'... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MONSTER Posted August 15, 2018 Share Posted August 15, 2018 On 8/14/2018 at 10:59 AM, JadeGiant said: Trimpe is a C artist - NO Hulk is a B book - NO Yes and Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironmandrd Posted August 15, 2018 Share Posted August 15, 2018 I would say that most of Trimpe run on Hulk makes him a B-/B artist on that run and in a few other issues he did during those prime years. But after that I view him as a C artist with some D artist mini-runs (remember when he tried to ape Liefeld?). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky Baru Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 If B stands for bargain art then Capullo put up a a bunch (about 40 pages) of it on his website over a month ago. A bunch of Spawn pages went up at very reasonable prices per page. ComicConnoisseur and 1950's war comics 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
batman_fan Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 I only have one piece I would consider an “A” I think each piece has to be judged on its own merits which makes it hard to come up with anything other than high level operating principles to provide guidance. 1. its by Charles Schultz (premier artist) 2. Early period which I would say was his prime period 3. Published (I maintain published increase the desirability) 4. Has three of the main characters (more is better than less in general) 5. Has a timeless exchange between the characters (content matters a lot) zhamlau and JadeGiant 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter L Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 On 8/14/2018 at 3:49 PM, Carlo M said: Bronze Age A JByrne, GPerez, JStarlin, BWindsor Smith Copper Age A Jim Lee, TMcFarlane, WSimonson I liked your lists. If your cut off was 1990 I would have only added Miller, Miller/Janson, Miller/Mazzuchelli, and Marvel early Star Wars to your A runs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlo M Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 11 hours ago, Peter L said: I liked your lists. If your cut off was 1990 I would have only added Miller, Miller/Janson, Miller/Mazzuchelli, and Marvel early Star Wars to your A runs. Miller...right of course, what was I thinking! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
furthur Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 This seemed like a whole lot of talk about an issue that clearly cannot be rationally determined. A and B level art are basically the comic art equivalent of the old saw about Pornography "You know it when you see it" and even more so, because even when you do see it, you may have a completely different opinion than the next guy. I think there are some indisputable A level pieces out there, but even that is at least debatable, as the Trimpe Wolverine Splash made abundantly clear to anyone who was watching the reaction to that sale. I have to just go with "I know what I like and if not many others do, then I guess that means I am lucky cause I will get it for less". I have a lot of things in my collection that are A level to me, but I suppose my heirs will discover if I was just fooling myself and that is ok as I don't see it as a major part of my estate planning anyway. Rick2you2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...