Nightmare situation with eBayer / PGX 3 3

[Bomber-Bob]

20 minutes ago, Beige said:

I'm sure the seller was completely innocent. I don't expect him to pony up - but I am not paypal.

However - the first question paypal will ask is "have you contacted the seller?"

I'm sure you would agree that it would be nice to be able to answer their sensible question,no?

Who do you think paypal will go after - PGX?

Or the guy who has the OP's $$ in their paypal account.

Anyone who has had the misfortune to be involved in an 'item returned as not as described' knows the answer to that.

Sure - the seller is completely innocent probably - paypal cares not a jot.

I am assuming the buyer has to return the book back to the seller before Paypal can take their money back. So the seller sold a PGX graded book and receives back a tainted CGC graded book. The poor seller has a legitimate case of 'item received not as described'. I think the buyer should get his money back directly from Paypal.

[Bomber-Bob]

13 minutes ago, IkewithMike said:

Broke the golden rule.

 

Never ever buy from PGX, no matter what

Look I'm not defending PGX but this can, and has, happened with CGC graded books also. The grading companies hide behind the grading is subjective rule and sometimes the last guy holding the book suffers. This is indeed a nightmare situation.

[Iceman399]

The fact you guys think PayPal should pony up is hilarious. 

The fact you guys think the seller should pony up is hilarious. 

 

Good luck op but your fight is not with either of the two above. 

[Mr bla bla]

5 hours ago, Ditch Fahrenheit said:

PS - Here's a recent example which is eerily similar to yours.

Link

Holy Sheiit !

[RockMyAmadeus]

There is nothing wrong with buying a PGX book, so long as you treat it like a raw book: you crack the book open and inspect it yourself when you receive it.

And you document the hell out of that process.

If a seller balks, the answer is "hey...that's the risk YOU TOOK when you decided to sell PGX graded books. That "slab" is nothing more than a holder, and I have the right to inspect the item to make sure it is what the PGX label claims it is."

If the seller whines about the book no longer being in the slab, that's the answer you give to eBay and/or Paypal: "I'm sorry, but how am I supposed to inspect my purchase if I can't take it out of the holder to examine it?"

[MetalPSI]

2 hours ago, Bomber-Bob said:

Look I'm not defending PGX but this can, and has, happened with CGC graded books also. The grading companies hide behind the grading is subjective rule and sometimes the last guy holding the book suffers. This is indeed a nightmare situation.

I agree with you, but a lot of evidence points that errors like this happen a lot more often than not with that company....

[DavidTheDavid]

Someone I trust told me, PGX is okay in grading, but garbage for resto detection, and apparently counting pages. I was stupid enough to learn my lesson twice, getting burned on PGX books, one of them a DD 1. I won’t even pick up a PGX slab now. I’ll never buy one again.

Edited August 8, 2018 by DavidTheDavid

[SeniorSurfer]

1 hour ago, DavidTheDavid said:

Someone I trust told me, PGX is okay in grading, but for resto detection, and apparently counting pages. I was stupid enough to learn my lesson twice, getting burned on PGX books, one of them a DD 1. I won’t even pick up a PGX slab now. I’ll never buy one again.

I think this thread can easily turn into a "hey my nightmare experience with PGX started with..." and there would be numerous entries.  I bought a few at the same time for slightly less than established prices (helped by the volume bought and the lesser label), cracked them to give a cursory exam, then re-submitted to CGC.  Goodbye unrestored copies of GL #76 and Spidey Annual #1, say hello to a couple of brand new PLODs with color touches.  You can only fool a Firefly twice. 

[telerites]

I honestly believe PGX doesn't even open many books other than to insert the acid-free paper (if they even do that) as counting pages, inspecting for restoration and all that goes into grading a book takes time.  Volume means more profit - quality be damned.  Not at all trying to facetious either - I honestly believe this.

 

Edited August 8, 2018 by telerites

[zuckuss2003]

How is PGX still in business?

[mattn792]

1 minute ago, zuckuss2003 said:

How is PGX still in business?

The same way CVA is still in business - gullible and/or uninformed consumers.

[entalmighty1]

7 hours ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

There is nothing wrong with buying a PGX book, so long as you treat it like a raw book: you crack the book open and inspect it yourself when you receive it.

And you document the hell out of that process.

If a seller balks, the answer is "hey...that's the risk YOU TOOK when you decided to sell PGX graded books. That "slab" is nothing more than a holder, and I have the right to inspect the item to make sure it is what the PGX label claims it is."

If the seller whines about the book no longer being in the slab, that's the answer you give to eBay and/or Paypal: "I'm sorry, but how am I supposed to inspect my purchase if I can't take it out of the holder to examine it?"

I understand the sentiment here, but I disagree.  You're not really buying a product, you're buying secondhand ownership of a third party service.  I don't see how that makes the seller of the book responsible.  It's just a gamble that didn't pay off.  

[telerites]

19 minutes ago, mattn792 said:

The same way CVA is still in business - gullible and/or uninformed consumers.

 

21 minutes ago, zuckuss2003 said:

How is PGX still in business?

Plus are they not the cheapest option?

[B2D327]

There's a good reason why pgx is a running joke on multiple forums. Word gets around in the comic collecting community. Those who are informed know not to take their grades seriously and it's a roll of the dice when you buy one of their slabs

[1Cool]

13 hours ago, jcruzcollection said:

Got a rude awakening this morning. 

Last month, I purchased a PGX graded copy of X-men #1 (the eBayer even said in his description to get it CGC'd). Well...I then submitted it to CGC at SDCC since I prefer their cases. I didn't expect the grading (originally a 4.5) to come back the same, given the subjectiveness of grading. 

HOWEVER, the absolutely worst thing happened. CGC found that two pages were missing from the book and gave it the green "qualified" label (see photo). The book is still on its way back to me and will arrive Monday of next week. I don't know what to do. This is so disappointing. I'm planning to try and get a refund from eBay since I paid a premium ($4,300) for a complete book, not something that was missing pages. 

I remember reading threads not long ago about how some stores intentionally work with PGX to hide some of these flaws. I really hope this isn't the case. 

I thought this was just a helpful story for collectors. 

I feel for you but it sounds like you rolled the dice and tried to get the book for a discount and got bit in the process.  The seller sold you a PGX slabbed copy of X-Men 1 at a big discount compared to a CGC copy so I do not think it's on them to know the book would be deemed restored by another company.  PGX just plain sucks and that is why you were able to get the book at such a discount (not big enough of a discount for my peace of mind but we are all different).

[1Cool]

8 hours ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

There is nothing wrong with buying a PGX book, so long as you treat it like a raw book: you crack the book open and inspect it yourself when you receive it.

And you document the hell out of that process.

If a seller balks, the answer is "hey...that's the risk YOU TOOK when you decided to sell PGX graded books. That "slab" is nothing more than a holder, and I have the right to inspect the item to make sure it is what the PGX label claims it is."

If the seller whines about the book no longer being in the slab, that's the answer you give to eBay and/or Paypal: "I'm sorry, but how am I supposed to inspect my purchase if I can't take it out of the holder to examine it?"

But how is the seller (or E-Bay for that matter) sure you didn't break out the book and then mix up the copies you have and now are calling foul.  And add in the fact that the previously slabbed book is now in a new slab and harder to determine which book is which I will go out on a limb and say E-Bay will side with the seller on this one.  Not sure how Paypal deals with it but I see the seller winning in this case (especially if it's been a few months since the sale).

[gadzukes]

Always expect the worst when you buy a PGX, and price/value it accordingly.  The OP valued it too close to what a CGC 4.5 would sell for.

Looking at the pic of the Xmen 1 I thought it looked no better than a 4.0 which is around a $4500 - $5000 book, so "assume" something is funky about it (because it's PGX) and only bid $2500.  

3 results can happen: 1) You lose out to some other bidder.... so no big deal.  2) You win it and Yup, it turns out to be funky.... at least you priced it right.  3) You win it and it comes back as a CGC 4.0 (or higher) blue.... then you win big time.

Just understand the risks you're taking anytime you buy a PGX.  If you don't like risks then stick to CGC.

NEVER pay CGC values for a PGX book, you will lose virtually every time.

Edited August 8, 2018 by gadzukes

[Artboy99]

16 minutes ago, 1Cool said:

But how is the seller (or E-Bay for that matter) sure you didn't break out the book and then mix up the copies you have and now are calling foul.  And add in the fact that the previously slabbed book is now in a new slab and harder to determine which book is which I will go out on a limb and say E-Bay will side with the seller on this one.  Not sure how Paypal deals with it but I see the seller winning in this case (especially if it's been a few months since the sale).

I agree.

 

[Action252Kid]

An eBay customer service representative told me once that if I buy a raw book off of eBay then send it to say CGC and they detect undisclosed restoration, then by me sending the book away to CGC, undisclosed resto or not, I've lost my chance to return the book because for all eBay knows, the person I sent it to restored it (or it could've been damaged while out of my possession, etc.).  In this case, the book was sent away and on top of that, removed from the PGX holder, so unless the seller wants to make things right on his own, I just can't see eBay or PayPal ever siding with the OP.  I've had similar nightmares with PGX books too; one of those things you have to experience firsthand before you learn your lesson it seems.

[Artboy99]

3 minutes ago, Action252Kid said:

An eBay customer service representative told me once that if I buy a raw book off of eBay then send it to say CGC and they detect undisclosed restoration, then by me sending the book away to CGC, undisclosed resto or not, I've lost my chance to return the book because for all eBay knows, the person I sent it to restored it (or it could've been damaged while out of my possession, etc.).  In this case, the book was sent away and on top of that, removed from the PGX holder, so unless the seller wants to make things right on his own, I just can't see eBay or PayPal ever siding with the OP.  I've had similar nightmares with PGX books too; one of those things you have to experience firsthand before you learn your lesson it seems.

exactly. How would I know as the seller you the buyer didn't remove the book from the holder, remove the missing pages yourself then try to send it back to me to get a refund?

In this circumstance I think the OP is not going to get a refund.