Stolen AF 15 CGC 5.0 Wizard Chicago 4 4

[MCMiles]

On 8/27/2018 at 12:28 PM, Pirate said:

Good to see all the backroom lawyers and expert security professionals in this thread.  Do everyone a favor and just be on the lookout.  I doubt the OP needs all this "advice" atm.  

Word! Same responses on a couple of FB groups where I shared the information. More people belittling the victim and explaining how they'd do it better and different. Finally said the same thing "be on the lookout and/or share the info, otherwise move on."

[thirdgreenham]

2 hours ago, Transplant said:

Maybe folks could stop suggesting ways to change the appearance and/or making this about themselves? Call me crazy. 

Thank you. I hit my head every time I read stupid posts. My head hurts .  

[James J Johnson]

5 hours ago, VintageComics said:

Silver Age marvels, especially from the early 1960's were notorious for varying in size as well as having artwork showing / missing, miswraps, miscuts, etc.

There is no way of knowing whether a book was trimmed or not just by looking at artwork or comparing one book to another.

 

Of course. But a comparison to any AF 15 blue label with spine alignment like this will show that this book is positively anorexic left to right. Shall I post a few dozen examples. And in the meantime, a challenge. Try finding one blue label CGC AF 15, black line aligned right on the spine with this much artwork cut off on the right edge.

I'm not saying that the book is trimmed. I'm noting that it most assuredly looks like it is and that feature might help it find its way back to Leroy, which is the purpose of discussion.

Also, there isn't any page protrusion! The typical fanning out of the inside pages on the right edge of the overwhelming majority of 1962 Marvels is not present, which is super rare for an untrimmed book, most specifically AF 15. Focusing on these two highly unusual characteristics might help ID this book even if altered in some other fashion.

The cut/centering/amount of right edge artwork present/spine alignment, and lack of page protrusion is, IMO, a combination of characteristics beyond wear that make this unique! I've not seen another one like it, spine vs. right edge vs. page alignment! I can pick this out of a group readily, without even looking at the fine wear details, which is why anyone looking to reunite Leroy with this book should take note of this!!

Edited August 29, 2018 by James J Johnson

[James J Johnson]

1 hour ago, thirdgreenham said:

Thank you. I hit my head every time I read stupid posts. My head hurts .  

People actively trying to help Leroy have to be aware of the possibilities. There are situations where mum's the word is best. I don't think this is one of them.

[Park]

4 hours ago, Transplant said:

Maybe folks could stop suggesting ways to change the appearance and/or making this about themselves? Call me crazy. 

Crazy.

[Park]

Ya’ big baby.

[VintageComics]

1 hour ago, James J Johnson said:

Of course. But a comparison to any AF 15 blue label with spine alignment like this will show that this book is positively anorexic left to right. Shall I post a few dozen examples. And in the meantime, a challenge. Try finding one blue label CGC AF 15, black line aligned right on the spine with this much artwork cut off on the right edge.

I'm not saying that the book is trimmed. I'm noting that it most assuredly looks like it is and that feature might help it find its way back to Leroy, which is the purpose of discussion.

Also, there isn't any page protrusion! The typical fanning out of the inside pages on the right edge of the overwhelming majority of 1962 Marvels is not present, which is super rare for an untrimmed book, most specifically AF 15. Focusing on these two highly unusual characteristics might help ID this book even if altered in some other fashion.

The cut/centering/amount of right edge artwork present/spine alignment, and lack of page protrusion is, IMO, a combination of characteristics beyond wear that make this unique! I've not seen another one like it, spine vs. right edge vs. page alignment! I can pick this out of a group readily, without even looking at the fine wear details, which is why anyone looking to reunite Leroy with this book should take note of this!!

I disagree with you. Early 60's Silver Age Marvels (especially those from 1962) come with varying sizes, varying amounts of artwork showing and varying degrees of fanning of the pages.

But I don't want to beat a dead horse so I'll just agree to disagree.

Edited August 29, 2018 by VintageComics

[James J Johnson]

3 hours ago, VintageComics said:

I disagree with you. Early 60's Silver Age Marvels (especially those from 1962) come with varying sizes, varying amounts of artwork showing and varying degrees of fanning of the pages.

But I don't want to beat a dead horse so I'll just agree to disagree.

Are you disagreeing simply for the sake of disagreeing? Nothing I've stated is the contrary. 1962 Marvels typically have a left to right range of tolerance between 6 and 3/4 and 6 and 7/8ths inches. This book falls a bit short of that. Spine to right cover edge, this book is leaner than that lower end of the "average" tolerance spectrum.

Couple that with the fact that there's minimal page protrusion and for most that have a fairly decent sensitivity to trimmed books, the warning light will go on, necessitating a good lose look at the page ends to confirm or not, as did the CGC, I'm sure when they checked for resto and trim.

To recap, and as both you and I have pointed out already: Books from this year and most surrounding years are all different sizes and shapes. Most are not cut perfectly square as well as being of different dimensions. Books from this period can either have page protrusion or not, although most do.

The right edge looks trimmed as it's small, and the pages protrude minimally. That's not the definitive way to tell if trimmed, but it looks that way, even though it isn't, and that's not the issue.

This all helps to further identify it, I would know that book by the right edge alone if I saw it anywhere! That's the whole purpose to mention it. Not to discuss if trimmed or not and that all books are different sizes and that's not how you tell trim. So I haven't a clue as to what you're in disagreement over, other than just to be a contrarian. Let's find something else to disagree about because we both seem to agree on the same points about books from this period all being different shapes and sizes.

What we're trying to do in this thread is to help Leroy get his book back. The more attention called to very distinguishing and unique identifying characteristics, the better. That right edge and it's relationship/distance to the spine will be very hard to alter, physically and digitally, which is why I stressed it as something to focus on when we're searching the net for Leroy's 15.

Edited August 29, 2018 by James J Johnson

[Mr.Mcknowitall]

2 hours ago, James J Johnson said:

What we're trying to do in this thread is to help Leroy get his book back. The more attention called to very distinguishing and unique identifying characteristics, the better. That right edge and it's relationship/distance to the spine will be very hard to alter, physically and digitally, which is why I stressed it as something to focus on when we're searching the net for Leroy's 15.

Seems like something that should be passed on to the investigating LE, if this is an identifying factor.

[namisgr]

8 hours ago, James J Johnson said:

The typical fanning out of the inside pages on the right edge of the overwhelming majority of 1962 Marvels is not present, which is super rare for an untrimmed book, most specifically AF 15.

It's amazing to me that, for at least some, this has become the view of what early SA Marvels look like naturally.  

I, too, hope the missing AF15 is recovered and the thief brought to justice.  Dealers are the backbone of the hobby, and theft is a real concern and a seemingly growing problem.

 

Edited August 29, 2018 by namisgr

[kav]

19 hours ago, MCMiles said:

Word! Same responses on a couple of FB groups where I shared the information. More people belittling the victim and explaining how they'd do it better and different. Finally said the same thing "be on the lookout and/or share the info, otherwise move on."

  I had a buddy who was robbed at shotgun point and he managed to grab the barrel twist the guy sideways and hurl him back and run off.  When he was telling the story my other buddy said no no no-you gotta always be ready-what you should have done-

[James J Johnson]

13 hours ago, namisgr said:

Dealers are the backbone of the hobby, and theft is a real concern and a seemingly growing problem.

 

Especially dealers like Leroy.

[James J Johnson]

3 hours ago, kav said:

  I had a buddy who was robbed at shotgun point and he managed to grab the barrel twist the guy sideways and hurl him back and run off.  When he was telling the story my other buddy said no no no-you gotta always be ready-what you should have done-

Once they touch you with the gun, the element of surprise and advantage is yours, if you have it in you to act.

Edited August 30, 2018 by James J Johnson

[kav]

4 minutes ago, James J Johnson said:

Once they touch you with the gun, the element of surprise and advantage is yours, if you have it in you to act.

I'm a bit skeptical of gun take-away claims.  I have a buddy who trains on this stuff but I'm thinking you can pretty much find anything on youtube and I've never seen a case of someone kung- fu ing a gun away from an assailant.

[VintageComics]

13 hours ago, Mr.Mcknowitall said:

16 hours ago, James J Johnson said:

What we're trying to do in this thread is to help Leroy get his book back. The more attention called to very distinguishing and unique identifying characteristics, the better. That right edge and it's relationship/distance to the spine will be very hard to alter, physically and digitally, which is why I stressed it as something to focus on when we're searching the net for Leroy's 15.

Seems like something that should be passed on to the investigating LE, if this is an identifying factor.

Without getting into a long and drawn out debate (as I said I don't want to derail the thread) I'll answer JJJ's questions.

16 hours ago, James J Johnson said:

Are you disagreeing simply for the sake of disagreeing? Nothing I've stated is the contrary. 1962 Marvels typically have a left to right range of tolerance between 6 and 3/4 and 6 and 7/8ths inches. This book falls a bit short of that. Spine to right cover edge, this book is leaner than that lower end of the "average" tolerance spectrum.

Some Marvels might  even have larger tolerances. Many are not cut square and are trapezoidal in shape. Some are thinner and some are thicker (width wise). For some, the covers are cut shorter than the interiors but stapled on anyway.

My main point being that If someone identifies the stolen book they will most likely be comparing it to a scan and I doubt the right edge is the first thing they will be looking at.

Remembering what the right edge looks like in attempting to identify the book is going to be less reliable than some of the defects the book has (for me anyway) and more importantly, comparing the artwork is going to be much less definitive than matching defects.

There were a zillion copies printed in 1962. The odds are that there are others with similar art tolerances but not all books will have the same wear.

That is the fingerprint that most people will be looking for.

16 hours ago, James J Johnson said:

The right edge looks trimmed as it's small, and the pages protrude minimally. That's not the definitive way to tell if trimmed, but it looks that way, even though it isn't, and that's not the issue.

You keep repeating this as well.

Silver Age Marvels can have the inner pages protruding, the can be flush with the covers and they can have covers that are too short but have been attached regardless...and yet none are trimmed.

I don't think it has any bearing on identifying the book.

Now if someone wants to remember that the inner pages don't protrude as a factor to help them quickly identify the book then fine.

But to me the trimming talk just muddies the waters for some people, IMO.

[James J Johnson]

5 minutes ago, VintageComics said:

Without getting into a long and drawn out debate (as I said I don't want to derail the thread) I'll answer JJJ's questions.

Some Marvels might  even have larger tolerances. Many are not cut square and are trapezoidal in shape. Some are thinner and some are thicker (width wise). For some, the covers are cut shorter than the interiors but stapled on anyway.

My main point being that If someone identifies the stolen book they will most likely be comparing it to a scan and I doubt the right edge is the first thing they will be looking at.

Remembering what the right edge looks like in attempting to identify the book is going to be less reliable than some of the defects the book has (for me anyway) and more importantly, comparing the artwork is going to be much less definitive than matching defects.

There were a zillion copies printed in 1962. The odds are that there are others with similar art tolerances but not all books will have the same wear.

That is the fingerprint that most people will be looking for.

You keep repeating this as well.

Silver Age Marvels can have the inner pages protruding, the can be flush with the covers and they can have covers that are too short but have been attached regardless...and yet none are trimmed.

I don't think it has any bearing on identifying the book.

Now if someone wants to remember that the inner pages don't protrude as a factor to help them quickly identify the book then fine.

But to me the trimming talk just muddies the waters for some people, IMO.

Please. I can pick that right edge out from a group of 15s from 100 yards! Why do you persist to presume that I can't? And that the right edge isn't unusual. I issued a challenge. I said, "go and find some CGCed blue label 15s of any universal grade that has the spine line on the fold and the same right edge symmetry and end cut + page ends.

Should be simple to absolutely prove your point if this right edge is so common, right? Let's see them. All of the blue label 15s with the spine line where it is and the right edge art where it ends on this one. Post! Show us. Well look. And then after you've posted dozens of them that look just like this one does, then I'll admit you're right, I'm wrong, and there's nothing uncommon about that right edge.

I never said it was trimmed, so perhaps it's your interpretation of what I stated that's muddled and not the waters.

Edited August 30, 2018 by James J Johnson

[grunter]

On 8/27/2018 at 3:52 PM, kav said:

Thiefs look around like crazy before they snatch.  Be alert to guy looking at wall then looking around repeatedly.  It would be sweet if someone filming con on phone caught dude in the act.

This comment makes me particularly nervous.  I don't have the best eye-sight.  I tend to linger at the front of booths squinting at the wall books just so I can make out what's back there in the usually pretty awful light of the convention hall.  I feel massively self-conscious about doing so, but it's the only way I can get a sense of what the dealer has to offer.  Plus, unlike most on these boards, I don't have long-time personal relationships with the national dealers such that I can feel comfortable asking to just enter the booth and view the wall books up-close.  I'm not a thief.  I just have poor eye-sight.

[kav]

6 minutes ago, grunter said:

This comment makes me particularly nervous.  I don't have the best eye-sight.  I tend to linger at the front of booths squinting at the wall books just so I can make out what's back there in the usually pretty awful light of the convention hall.  I feel massively self-conscious about doing so, but it's the only way I can get a sense of what the dealer has to offer.  Plus, unlike most on these boards, I don't have long-time personal relationships with the national dealers such that I can feel comfortable asking to just enter the booth and view the wall books up-close.  I'm not a thief.  I just have poor eye-sight.

That's different from scoping books, looking around to see if anyone's watching you, looking at the books some more, scoping out possible witnesses over and over as thiefs do.  You should be fine.  I watch a lot of videos from 'gas station encounters' and shoplifters ALWAYS do repeated scopes towards the front to see if anyone is watching before they snatch.

[HENRYSPENCER]

If Ted’s books were also jacked on Sunday then we’re likely dealing with the same culprit who stole Leroy’s AF #15.  Wondering if the police can get a list of attendees from Sunday, feed them into their criminal database and search for those with probation, warrants or priors pertaining to theft. I see this as a good thing though others may object that it would violate their privacy.

[HENRYSPENCER]

If Ted can get video of the incident from the security cameras it would benefit in the case of the stolen AF #15.