Reasons for removing graded books from their holders. 0

[adamstrange]

18 minutes ago, jhm said:

5 hours ago, adamstrange said:

How would de-slabbing inflate the numbers? 

I doubt many collectors do it or that it affects many books.  The folks I know that do it, keep the labels and send them in if they re-slab the book or include them if they sell the book.

In the coin world, they have had difficulties with the census even though I doubt there is any de-slabbing for aesthetic reasons.  Census problems are driven by the crack and re-submit contingent.

Just resubmits without sending in the original label. I've seen it quite a few times. I try to always investigate as many past sale images as I can find when analyzing scarcity based on census numbers.

The good part about collecting classic Gold is that it's a fairly small population of goodies with a lot of inventory info if you're willing to do the research.

To be honest, I didn't know so many folks out here crack their slabs. I would love to, but I'm too paranoid when I pay such crazy premiums for, say, a 9.4 vs. a 9.2. I guess I don't send enough in to feel confident in how it will come back. 

The people who de-slab are in tiny in number and generally conscientious.  There may be problems with the Census but it's due to the crack/press/re-submit crew, not the de-slabbers who want to appreciate the comic.

[Sqeggs]

16 hours ago, cheetah said:

Some do not think comics belong in plastic but were made to be read.

Some only slab to verify grade or restoration.

Some see a chance to sell a low grade book at an inflated price by claiming a higher grade.

Some see a chance to sell a restored book to an unsuspecting collector at an inflated price.

 

Those last two represent the business model of some eBay sellers.

[Sqeggs]

10 hours ago, adamstrange said:

How would de-slabbing inflate the numbers? 

I doubt many collectors do it or that it affects many books.  The folks I know that do it, keep the labels and send them in if they re-slab the book or include them if they sell the book.

In the coin world, they have had difficulties with the census even though I doubt there is any de-slabbing for aesthetic reasons.  Census problems are driven by the crack and re-submit contingent.

Deslabbing can throw the census numbers off in the sense that, say, a deslabbed 9.2 may come back as a 9.0 or a 9.4.  So, what was a definite 9.2 has become a maybe 9.2 or maybe not.  A few weeks ago I posted a book I bought as a deslabbed 8.5 (label included) that came back as a 7.5.  With only four copies on the census, that difference was somewhat significant.  Previously (before I sent the book in) on the census there was a 9.4 (Church copy), an 8.5, and a 7.5 (the fourth copy is a 4.5).  Now (because I sent in the label with the book) there's a 9.4 and two 7.5s.

Not the biggest deal in the world, but one of several reasons why the census is often at least a bit off.

[adamstrange]

1 hour ago, szavisca said:

I think you're right but even the crack-press-resub crew have a pretty strong incentive to send in the old label.  If you're planning on selling the book ever, it's in your self interest to keep the census low and make your book appear as scarce as possible.

Perhaps it is.  But in the coin world that had to re-set their census to zero because of how bad it got and I don't think it was casual collectors were popping coins out for their own pleasure.

[Cat-Man_America]

6 hours ago, EC ed said:

6. To replace the microchamber paper with fresh (and add a third sheet at the centerfold )

Excellent point, although the jury's still out on the overall benefits of microchamber paper and need for periodic replacement.

Assuming that off-gassing is the primary justification, there is some debate over the actual need for microchamber paper in the first place as the lack of efficient sealing allows exposure to the air (especially true in respect to older holders), 

As for micro chamber paper reaching a saturation point in "x" number of years requiring replacement, that's also open to debate.

The one obvious take-away is that reholdering provides a continuous money stream for any third party grading companies that use microchamber paper. Food for thought.

[cheetah]

4 hours ago, szavisca said:

I think you're right but even the crack-press-resub crew have a pretty strong incentive to send in the old label.  If you're planning on selling the book ever, it's in your self interest to keep the census low and make your book appear as scarce as possible.

I wonder if the crack-and-press causes as much trouble now that CGC does so much of the pressing.  Are there even any other significant pressers out there?

Edited September 1, 2018 by cheetah
Autocorrect rendered me sounding stupid.

[Bomber-Bob]

7 hours ago, EC ed said:

6. To replace the microchamber paper with fresh (and add a third sheet at the centerfold )

I don't think this is necessary. Of all the slabs I have cracked open, the MC paper was fine. Even CGC states this does not need to be done. This is taken from their website...

When CGC was first established in 2000, we thoroughly researched and implemented the best practices in archival preservation. We took a conservative approach and suggested that customers may wish to consider reholdering their books after approximately seven to ten years so that the MicroChamber paper could be replaced. 

Today, however, we have the benefit of having graded 4.1 million books over a 17-year period. This is an incredibly large sample size that represents books of all eras, paper types, paper qualities, storage conditions and grades. CGC and its customers now have ample evidence that demonstrates it is not necessary to have your CGC books reholdered simply to replace the MicroChamber paper. CGC’s archival-safe holder, with its combination of features that includes air permeability, MicroChamber paper and a secure, sonic seal, has been shown to provide superior long-term protection for the millions of books that have been encapsulated by CGC. 

We have never seen a properly stored CGC-certified comic book that needed to be reholdered for archival reasons. Nonetheless, there are still a number of benefits to utilizing CGC’s reholder service, including the crystal-clear display, enhanced aesthetic and durable construction of CGC’s new holder. 

It is important to remember that proper storage is essential to preserving your books, and collectors should take steps to minimize exposure to heat, humidity, vibration and light. CGC recommends that CGC-certified books be stored in a dark, dry, cool, temperature-controlled location.

CGC's holders have withstood the test of time and over the last 17 years have been shown to provide outstanding long-term protection and preservation. No other comic book grading services can make that claim. 

[Sqeggs]

7 hours ago, EC ed said:

6. To replace the microchamber paper with fresh (and add a third sheet at the centerfold )

If you'd stop doing this, you could afford those EC promos! 

[Sqeggs]

48 minutes ago, cheetah said:

I infer if the crack-and-press causes as much trouble now that CGC does so much of the pressing.  Are there even any other significant pressers out there?

There are at least a couple out there that seem to do significant business, maybe because they charge less.  There's also Susan C., although I don't know if she bothers with pressing these days.  

The convenience and (usually) shorter TATs have caused me to switch to only using CCS. And I think you are right that the failure to send in labels to correct the census is probably less of a problem as CCS's market share has grown (assuming that it has).

[The Lions Den]

10 hours ago, Cat-Man_America said:

5. To find out if the competition has built a better mouse trap.

I don't think CGC has anything to worry about...

[cheetah]

6 minutes ago, Sqeggs said:

There are at least a couple out there that seem to do significant business, maybe because they charge less.  There's also Susan C., although I don't know if she bothers with pressing these days.  

The convenience and (usually) shorter TATs have caused me to switch to only using CCS. And I think you are right that the failure to send in labels to correct the census is probably less of a problem as CCS's market share has grown (assuming that it has).

I know it was an issue of concern when Matt worked with Ritter since he couldn't control if people sent the labels back or not.  He was the only person I ever used consistently.

[Cat-Man_America]

1 hour ago, The Lions Den said:

I don't think CGC has anything to worry about...

It's all about the cheese. 

[cheetah]

3 hours ago, The Lions Den said:

I don't think CGC has anything to worry about...

I heard about how the competition had imploded.  Can't even manage to answer their phones.

[Cat-Man_America]

1 hour ago, cheetah said:

I heard about how the competition had imploded.  Can't even manage to answer their phones.

That's interesting, I thought it was CGC that kept getting rings and no answer. 

[cheetah]

5 minutes ago, Cat-Man_America said:

That's interesting, I thought it was CGC that kept getting rings and no answer. 

Check out their Facebook page.

[Cat-Man_America]

2 hours ago, cheetah said:

Check out their Facebook page.

I usually take criticisms on the internet with a large grain of NaCl.  Does CGC have a Facepalm page?

Edited September 2, 2018 by Cat-Man_America
.

[cheetah]

8 minutes ago, Cat-Man_America said:

I usually take criticisms on the internet with a large grain of NaCl.  Does CGC have a Facepalm page?

Yeah, not much has changed over the years.

[DavidTheDavid]

11 hours ago, szavisca said:

I think you're right but even the crack-press-resub crew have a pretty strong incentive to send in the old label.  If you're planning on selling the book ever, it's in your self interest to keep the census low and make your book appear as scarce as possible.

Or keep the old label, so you can crack the book again and sell with the old label, if it was a better grade.

Anyhow, I’ve begun doing this more often as I find the books more enjoyable in Mylar, and I want to inspect the book’s interior and enjoy it. Pedigrees, especially valuable books, or books I’m on the fence about keeping long-term stay in their slabs.

[50YrsCollctngCmcs]

I'm not a big slabber but every now and then you can find an error that works to your advantage. As an example check out this Scribbly #1 notated as a Scribbly #3 and advertised on an auction site as such and bought for the price of a #3. Told me that people aren't really paying attention to much more than the CGC label anymore so look sharp friends.

[Howling Mad]

14 minutes ago, 40YrsCollctngCmcs said:

I'm not a big slabber but every now and then you can find an error that works to your advantage. As an example check out this Scribbly #1 notated as a Scribbly #3 and advertised on an auction site as such and bought for the price of a #3. Told me that people aren't really paying attention to much more than the CGC label anymore so look sharp friends.

There was an example of this recently with an Invincible #55 and Iron Man #55 I believe.