MCU's THE ETERNALS (11/6/20) 8 8

[@therealsilvermane]

On 10/29/2021 at 11:52 AM, drotto said:

Great stocks are up, but all stocks are up.  So separating those companies rising as a general stock trend across the board, or what can be attributed the Shang-Chi is unclear.  You have to remember Bond, FF 9, Halloween, Dune and several other movie have also come out and done reasonably well.  Yet, this is only based on one movie?

Not really. Yes, Shang Chi did well. It got great word of mouth, made money, and seemed to revive hope in the theater going experience. But it's also the subsequent reaction to that immediate success with things like Sony moving up Venom 2 and Disney MGM  and other studios publicly proclaiming they will stick to their theater exclusive release dates that made movie theater chain stocks like IMAX and Cinemark go up.

I don't know how many times I have to explain that it's not Shang-Chi's box office receipts that's saved the movie theater experience but the chain reaction of behavior, attitude, and industry moves that it caused in its wake.

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 10/29/2021 at 12:10 PM, Bosco685 said:

...at least lately we haven't heard 'it's happening in other places so I am combating it here'.

You jinxed us.

[@therealsilvermane]

[Gatsby77]

On 10/29/2021 at 11:52 AM, drotto said:

Shang-Chi is never releasing in China.  Black Widow did not, and Eterneals is likely not releasing there either.  If this continues with the MCU, this is going to be a massive issue, as they have staked a lot on opening up that market.  Some say they are pandering to that market.

 

Great stocks are up, but all stocks are up.  So separating those companies rising as a general stock trend across the board, or what can be attributed the Shang-Chi is unclear.  You have to remember Bond, FF 9, Halloween, Dune and several other movie have also come out and done reasonably well.  Yet, this is only based on one movie?

Yes - and @therealsilvermane - go back to Bosco's chart.

Godzilla vs. Kong did nearly as well as Shang-Chi.

[@therealsilvermane]

On 10/29/2021 at 12:21 PM, Gatsby77 said:

Yes - and @therealsilvermane - go back to Bosco's chart.

Godzilla vs. Kong did nearly as well as Shang-Chi.

I don't know how many times I have to explain that it's not Shang-Chi's box office receipts that's saved the movie theater experience but the chain reaction of behavior, attitude, industry moves, and continued uninterrupted bigger profits that it caused in its wake.

Edited October 29, 2021 by @therealsilvermane

[Gatsby77]

On 10/29/2021 at 12:20 PM, @therealsilvermane said:

Not really. Yes, Shang Chi did well. It got great word of mouth, made money, and seemed to revive hope in the theater going experience. But it's also the subsequent reaction to that immediate success with things like Sony moving up Venom 2 and Disney MGM  and other studios publicly proclaiming they will stick to their theater exclusive release dates that made movie theater chain stocks like IMAX and Cinemark go up.

I don't know how many times I have to explain that it's not Shang-Chi's box office receipts that's saved the movie theater experience but the chain reaction of behavior, attitude, and industry moves that it caused in its wake.

Because this premise is entirely wrong.

Shang-Chi + Godzilla v. Kong + Bond + every other blockbuster film released since Fast 9. 

[drotto]

On 10/29/2021 at 12:23 PM, @therealsilvermane said:

I don't know how many times I have to explain that it's not Shang-Chi's box office receipts that's saved the movie theater experience but the chain reaction of behavior, attitude, and industry moves that it caused in its wake.

That is an opinion.  It can not be quantified because it is impossible to tease out one films impact when 4 or 5 other films have done well right around the same time period.  The stock figures you gave are for late October, Shang-Chi not the only game in town.  It plays a role, it is not the only most important item.

Edited October 29, 2021 by drotto

[theCapraAegagrus]

The MCU was not designed to be a religion.

[Bosco685]

On 10/29/2021 at 12:33 PM, theCapraAegagrus said:

The MCU was not designed to be a religion.

[Bosco685]

On 10/29/2021 at 12:20 PM, @therealsilvermane said:

Not really. Yes, Shang Chi did well. It got great word of mouth, made money, and seemed to revive hope in the theater going experience. But it's also the subsequent reaction to that immediate success with things like Sony moving up Venom 2 and Disney MGM  and other studios publicly proclaiming they will stick to their theater exclusive release dates that made movie theater chain stocks like IMAX and Cinemark go up.

I don't know how many times I have to explain that it's not Shang-Chi's box office receipts that's saved the movie theater experience but the chain reaction of behavior, attitude, and industry moves that it caused in its wake.

A series of movies have helped return consumer faith in returning to the theaters. How could one movie on its own be the catalyst? Because you say so?

Again - reality! Even with Black Widow I may not have cared for it, but it encouraged moviegoers to see it even though it was also available via premiere access.

And even before this Godzilla vs. Kong brought people out to theaters. Or were these folks cheering because of an MCU trailer beforehand?

 

[Bosco685]

On 10/29/2021 at 12:21 PM, theCapraAegagrus said:

You jinxed us.

[Broke as a Joke]

Checked out some of the reviews for this and it really begs the question, did anyone really need an Eternals movie?  A Kirby pet project that never had an ongoing series last 20 issues.  You have to really knock it out the park with characters like these(Guardians) or the audience will shrug their shoulders and simply move on.

 

[drotto]

On 10/29/2021 at 1:00 PM, Bosco685 said:

A series of movies have helped return consumer faith in returning to the theaters. How could one movie on its own be the catalyst? Because you say so?

Again - reality! Even with Black Widow I may not have cared for it, but it encouraged moviegoers to see it even though it was also available via premiere access.

And even before this Godzilla vs. Kong brought people out to theaters. Or were these folks cheering because of an MCU trailer beforehand?

 

Thank you!!!!!!

 

One movie is not going to save the industry.  Only a series of money making films over months or years are going to save theaters.  I would still argue these movies have show theaters have a pulse.  They have a chance. They are out of the ICU, but still in the hospital.  

 

I have more hope then I did a few months ago.  Plus, theaters are playing in a changed world, where I hear many people around me saying, but is it same day streaming, cause I can wait. Finally, eventually the MCU will die.  Sorry to shock some people with that statement. Theaters need to be able to survive without the MCU.

[HighVoltage]

On 10/29/2021 at 11:08 AM, Broke as a Joke said:

Checked out some of the reviews for this and it really begs the question, did anyone really need an Eternals movie?  A Kirby pet project that never had an ongoing series last 20 issues.  You have to really knock it out the park with characters like these(Guardians) or the audience will shrug their shoulders and simply move on.

 

I'm not sure why Disney/Marvel chose Eternals... other than: 1) New blood/characters  2) A way to 'on-ramp' mutants?  3) Why not?
But - just because it wouldn't have been my first choice of characters doesn't mean I'm not curious about the show. The Celestials are looking sweet.

I could have said the same about Guardians of the Galaxy as well. That wasn't a set of characters I would have greenlit, but it gave the MCU some cosmic/space players, and they pulled it off.

[HighVoltage]

On 10/29/2021 at 11:08 AM, drotto said:

Thank you!!!!!!

 

One movie is not going to save the industry.  Only a series of money making films over months or years are going to save theaters.  I would still argue these movies have show theaters have a pulse.  They have a chance. They are out of the ICU, but still in the hospital.  

 

I have more hope then I did a few months ago.  Plus, theaters are playing in a changed world, where I hear many people around me saying, but is it same day streaming, cause I can wait. Finally, eventually the MCU will die.  Sorry to shock some people with that statement. Theaters need to be able to survive without the MCU.

Comic book movies have had a great run. Longer than I expected, especially at the top of the mountain financially.

But - like westerns & war movies & cop/crime genres, eventually superheroes won't be at the top. No idea what will take that slot down the road.
Hopefully we can still get great superhero flicks every so often though - much like we get a great western/war/crime genre gem once in awhile.

As I've said before, however (echoing Frank Miller): Hollywood needs stories. And comics have a storyboarded boatload of them ready to go & sometimes with a solid fanbase in place.

[drotto]

On 10/29/2021 at 1:45 PM, HighVoltage said:

I'm not sure why Disney/Marvel chose Eternals... other than: 1) New blood/characters  2) A way to 'on-ramp' mutants?  3) Why not?
But - just because it wouldn't have been my first choice of characters doesn't mean I'm not curious about the show. The Celestials are looking sweet.

I could have said the same about Guardians of the Galaxy as well. That wasn't a set of characters I would have greenlit, but it gave the MCU some cosmic/space players, and they pulled it off.

My gut, and nothing more on why Eternals.  At the time the project was green lit, getting the FF or X-Men was not set in stone, and even if they were on the way they needed new blood.  Eternals seemd to be an untapped new property and could still be in the MCU storyline.  It also offered a wide spectrum of diverse characters (similar to X-Men), which offered to possibly of broadening the  audience base.  So it became worth a shot.  If it does well it is a win, and will add to the story.   If it does not, they are not "wasting" a well known property and they now have big names waiting in the wings.

 

Also, there may be a degree of arrogance to the pick.  Really, for the last 10 years everything they have touched has basically turned to gold.  So they went for it, because someone high up is a fan.

[Gatsby77]

On 10/29/2021 at 2:00 PM, drotto said:

My gut, and nothing more on why Eternals.  At the time the project was green lit, getting the FF or X-Men was not set in stone, and even if they were on the way they needed new blood.  Eternals seemd to be an untapped new property and could still be in the MCU storyline.  It also offered a wide spectrum of diverse characters (similar to X-Men), which offered to possibly of broadening the  audience base.  So it became worth a shot.  If it does well it is a win, and will add to the story.   If it does not, they are not "wasting" a well known property and they now have big names waiting in the wings.

 

Also, there may be a degree of arrogance to the pick.  Really, for the last 10 years everything they have touched has basically turned to gold.  So they went for it, because someone high up is a fan.

I agree with all of this.

I have no desire to see Shang-Chi, simply because in 30 years of collecting, I've never read a Master of Kung Fu issue. Zero connection to - or interest in - the character.

I felt the same way about Eternals - never read an appearance and really don't care about Kirby's (non-FF) cosmic stuff. A coffee table book on the history of comics I received in 1990 spent an entire chapter straight mocking Kirby's '70s work (compared to his Silver Age stuff): this included The Fourth World and (especially) Eternals.

But I'll go see this, because:

1) Chloe Zhao - a non-traditional director who knows how to frame a shot.

2) The cast - Intrigued to see Salma Hayek, Angelina Jolie and Kumail Nanjiani in superhero roles. I liked Richard Madden in Bodyguard but he alone wouldn't convince me to see it.

Expectations are low. But - like Guardians of the Galaxy - it's truly an odd pick by Marvel.

At least it won't be as bad as Inhumans (I hope).

[@therealsilvermane]

On 10/29/2021 at 1:50 PM, HighVoltage said:

Comic book movies have had a great run. Longer than I expected, especially at the top of the mountain financially.

But - like westerns & war movies & cop/crime genres, eventually superheroes won't be at the top. No idea what will take that slot down the road.
Hopefully we can still get great superhero flicks every so often though - much like we get a great western/war/crime genre gem once in awhile.

As I've said before, however (echoing Frank Miller): Hollywood needs stories. And comics have a storyboarded boatload of them ready to go & sometimes with a solid fanbase in place.

I don't think the MCU in particular ever goes away and I think it stays in the upper echelon of pop culture indefinitely.

First, if Star Wars and Star Trek can stay in the hearts and minds of generations of moviegoers going on 50 years, I see no reason why the MCU can't.

Second, Disney won't let the MCU go away. They'll figure out a way to evolve the brand with the shifting sands of audience taste. Disney has been doing this game successfully for almost a hundred years. If the Mouse has anything to do with it and they do, Marvel is going nowhere.

Third, since 1963, generations of pop culture fans have never tired of Spider-Man, Hulk, etcetera whether it's in comics, live TV, cartoons, or the movies. Why should they tire of them now?

Fourth, Kevin Feige gets it. I daresay he is the most important person in Marvel history after Stan Lee. As long as that guy is in charge, Marvel Studios will be just fine. And even when Feige gets too old or whatever for the job, I trust him enough to pick a worthy successor. Victoria Alonso maybe...

[MisterX]

On 10/29/2021 at 1:45 PM, HighVoltage said:

I'm not sure why Disney/Marvel chose Eternals... other than: 1) New blood/characters  2) A way to 'on-ramp' mutants?  3) Why not?
But - just because it wouldn't have been my first choice of characters doesn't mean I'm not curious about the show. The Celestials are looking sweet.

I could have said the same about Guardians of the Galaxy as well. That wasn't a set of characters I would have greenlit, but it gave the MCU some cosmic/space players, and they pulled it off.

It's all about rushing out a lesser Kirby story to block a down-the-road greater Kirby story owned by a competitor. 

I think Marvel did this to upstage DC/Warner Bros. If Warner Bros. had their act together, they could've done a Darkseid/ New Gods/Mr. Miracle movie by now. Maybe it would have been exciting enough to help rejuvenate their struggling DC film universe. I understand Darkseid shows up in the Snyder cut, but that's too little, too late for the general public. 

Instead, Marvel debuted Thanos before Darkseid, and now the Eternals before the New Gods. So, if Warner Bros. ever does do another Darkseid appearance or New Gods movie, it'll feel like they're ripping off Marvel. It'll be stale. 

Edited October 29, 2021 by MisterX
spelling!

[Larryw7]

On 10/29/2021 at 3:38 PM, @therealsilvermane said:

I don't think the MCU in particular ever goes away and I think it stays in the upper echelon of pop culture indefinitely.

First, if Star Wars and Star Trek can stay in the hearts and minds of generations of moviegoers going on 50 years, I see no reason why the MCU can't.

Second, Disney won't let the MCU go away. They'll figure out a way to evolve the brand with the shifting sands of audience taste. Disney has been doing this game successfully for almost a hundred years. If the Mouse has anything to do with it and they do, Marvel is going nowhere.

Third, since 1963, generations of pop culture fans have never tired of Spider-Man, Hulk, etcetera whether it's in comics, live TV, cartoons, or the movies. Why should they tire of them now?

Fourth, Kevin Feige gets it. I daresay he is the most important person in Marvel history after Stan Lee. As long as that guy is in charge, Marvel Studios will be just fine. And even when Feige gets too old or whatever for the job, I trust him enough to pick a worthy successor. Victoria Alonso maybe...

Nothing lasts forever.