MCU's THE ETERNALS (11/6/20) 8 8

[Bosco685]

On 10/29/2021 at 3:51 PM, MisterX said:

It's all about rushing out a lesser Kirby story to block a down-the-road greater Kirby story owned by a competitor. 

I think Marvel did this to upstage DC/Warner Bros. If Warner Bros. had their act together, they could've done a Darkseid/ New Gods/Mr. Miracle movie by now. Maybe it would have been exciting enough to help rejuvenate their struggling DC film universe. I understand Darkseid shows up in the Snyder cut, but that's too little, too late for the general public. 

Instead, Marvel debuted Thanos before Darkseid, and now the Eternals before the New Gods. So, if Warner Bros. ever does do another Darkseid appearance or New Gods movie, it'll feel like they're ripping off Marvel. It'll be stale. 

I recognize you are sharing thoughts on the subject. I say that so there is no confusion on my response.

Realizing the differences between The Eternals and The New Gods - along with the difference in Darkseid and Thanos - if handled right there is no confusion nor clear similarities. Other than the two big bads are big and bad. Even in Zack Snyder's Justice League the way he introduced viewers to the character, you found out he was a god that wanted nothing but power to destroy his enemies. The MCU Thanos was portrayed as a villain on in his approach, yet his motives were supposedly altruistic.

See what I mean? To assume this is the MCU boxing out competition may not factor the creative reality that is part of the designs and source material (comic book and/or cinema storywise).

[fantastic_four]

The timing isn't to beat DC, it's Feige's path to introducing the X-Men into an already-established universe.  He had Eternals queued up for years and let it rip as soon as he had good reason to believe the X-Men were coming back into the MCU fold.

[@therealsilvermane]

On 10/29/2021 at 12:25 PM, drotto said:

That is an opinion.  It can not be quantified because it is impossible to tease out one films impact when 4 or 5 other films have done well right around the same time period.  The stock figures you gave are for late October, Shang-Chi not the only game in town.  It plays a role, it is not the only most important item.

The stock figures I gave were from middle September after Shang-Chi's second weekend. Prior to Shang-Chi's release, none of the big summer releases since Black Widow two months prior, like Space Jam 2 or Free Guy, got over $30 million their opening weekends. Black Widow and F9 did not produce a wave of continued success at the box office. Movie theaters were in a slump for most of the summer, a victim of the coronavirus Delta surge and the rise of day and date streaming.  After Shang-Chi's opening weekend, there were no big releases until Venom 2 on October 1st. So, Shang-Chi was basically released on a movie schedule island with no real competition in the weeks before and in the month after its release. It was the only real game in town.

Again, you have to consider the industry sentiment in the month or two before Shang-Chi's release and directly after Shang-Chi's release. Before the movie's record breaking weekend, the sentiment was doom and gloom surrounding the industry, as I stated. I believe you were even sounding the death knell here of movie theaters and that Shang-Chi would get no better than $35-55 million. For an example of industry sentiment in the month prior to Shang-Chi's release, here's a link to a Deadline article discussing how day and date streaming may be the new entertainment model for movies: https://deadline.com/2021/08/warnermedia-hbomax-nbcuniversal-peacock-streaming-box-office-home-entertainment-covid-1234812482/  Bob Chapek, the Disney CEO, a known fan of the streaming  model, infamously called Shang-Chi a 45 day experiment. 

Shang-Chi's successful 1st and 2nd weekends and their effect on the movie industry are absolutely quantifiable and on record, as I laid out in my previous post. Again, I don't mean box office receipts, as that's a given. Without Shang-Chi's record breaking Labor Day weekend, Sony doesn't move Venom 2 up two weekends and several movie studios including Disney don't verbally commit to their theater exclusive release dates. This produced a domino effect on the stock prices of every U.S. movie chain seeing a substantial increase in their price. This then caused the CEO of nearly every movie chain to tweet out the praises of Shang Chi. By Shang-Chi's second week, all talk of day and date streaming taking over as the new venue for movies was dead. 20 or 30 media articles flooded the internet and newspapers proclaiming that the movie theater industry was on the rise again. In the weeks following Shang-Chi's release beginning with Venom 2, box office weekends have hovered regularly in the $100 million range.

While 2021 movies like Kong v Godzilla or QP2 helped keep the industry afloat as well theater chains adjusting their business model like offering viewing parties and such, it was Shang-Chi and Shang-Chi alone that produced the domino effect I described in the above paragraph. Not Godzilla v Kong. Not F9. Not Black Widow. Not Free Guy. It was Shang-Chi.

[Gatsby77]

On 10/29/2021 at 5:57 PM, @therealsilvermane said:

The stock figures I gave were from middle September after Shang-Chi's second weekend. Prior to Shang-Chi's release, none of the big summer releases since Black Widow two months prior, like Space Jam 2 or Free Guy, got over $30 million their opening weekends. Black Widow and F9 did not produce a wave of continued success at the box office. Movie theaters were in a slump for most of the summer, a victim of the coronavirus Delta surge and the rise of day and date streaming.  After Shang-Chi's opening weekend, there were no big releases until Venom 2 on October 1st. So, Shang-Chi was basically released on a movie schedule island with no real competition in the weeks before and in the month after its release. It was the only real game in town.

Again, you have to consider the industry sentiment in the month or two before Shang-Chi's release and directly after Shang-Chi's release. Before the movie's record breaking weekend, the sentiment was doom and gloom surrounding the industry, as I stated. I believe you were even sounding the death knell here of movie theaters and that Shang-Chi would get no better than $35-55 million. For an example of industry sentiment in the month prior to Shang-Chi's release, here's a link to a Deadline article discussing how day and date streaming may be the new entertainment model for movies: https://deadline.com/2021/08/warnermedia-hbomax-nbcuniversal-peacock-streaming-box-office-home-entertainment-covid-1234812482/  Bob Chapek, the Disney CEO, a known fan of the streaming  model, infamously called Shang-Chi a 45 day experiment. 

Shang-Chi's successful 1st and 2nd weekends and their effect on the movie industry are absolutely quantifiable and on record, as I laid out in my previous post. Again, I don't mean box office receipts, as that's a given. Without Shang-Chi's record breaking Labor Day weekend, Sony doesn't move Venom 2 up two weekends and several movie studios including Disney don't verbally commit to their theater exclusive release dates. This produced a domino effect on the stock prices of every U.S. movie chain seeing a substantial increase in their price. This then caused the CEO of nearly every movie chain to tweet out the praises of Shang Chi. By Shang-Chi's second week, all talk of day and date streaming taking over as the new venue for movies was dead. 20 or 30 media articles flooded the internet and newspapers proclaiming that the movie theater industry was on the rise again. In the weeks following Shang-Chi's release beginning with Venom 2, box office weekends have hovered regularly in the $100 million range.

While 2021 movies like Kong v Godzilla or QP2 helped keep the industry afloat as well theater chains adjusting their business model like offering viewing parties and such, it was Shang-Chi and Shang-Chi alone that produced the domino effect I described in the above paragraph. Not Godzilla v Kong. Not F9. Not Black Widow. Not Free Guy. It was Shang-Chi.

I’m two margaritas deep on a Friday evening but:

God - D—-n do I wish I had your drugs!

[paperheart]

Maybe Shang-Chi was head of the baboons who allowed this to happen (which is the only thing that kept AMC alive during an 18 month period in which they burned $1.9 Billion).  That's what Shang-Chi was doing while the film sat on a shelf; makes perfect sense now.

During April and May of 2021, the Company sold 43.0 million shares, generating $427.5 million in gross proceeds and paid fees to sales agents of $10.7 million. In June of 2021, the Company

sold 11.55 million shares, generating $587.4 million in gross proceeds and paid fees to sales agents of $14.7 million and other fees of $0.3 million.

[drotto]

On 10/29/2021 at 5:57 PM, @therealsilvermane said:

The stock figures I gave were from middle September after Shang-Chi's second weekend. Prior to Shang-Chi's release, none of the big summer releases since Black Widow two months prior, like Space Jam 2 or Free Guy, got over $30 million their opening weekends. Black Widow and F9 did not produce a wave of continued success at the box office. Movie theaters were in a slump for most of the summer, a victim of the coronavirus Delta surge and the rise of day and date streaming.  After Shang-Chi's opening weekend, there were no big releases until Venom 2 on October 1st. So, Shang-Chi was basically released on a movie schedule island with no real competition in the weeks before and in the month after its release. It was the only real game in town.

Again, you have to consider the industry sentiment in the month or two before Shang-Chi's release and directly after Shang-Chi's release. Before the movie's record breaking weekend, the sentiment was doom and gloom surrounding the industry, as I stated. I believe you were even sounding the death knell here of movie theaters and that Shang-Chi would get no better than $35-55 million. For an example of industry sentiment in the month prior to Shang-Chi's release, here's a link to a Deadline article discussing how day and date streaming may be the new entertainment model for movies: https://deadline.com/2021/08/warnermedia-hbomax-nbcuniversal-peacock-streaming-box-office-home-entertainment-covid-1234812482/  Bob Chapek, the Disney CEO, a known fan of the streaming  model, infamously called Shang-Chi a 45 day experiment. 

Shang-Chi's successful 1st and 2nd weekends and their effect on the movie industry are absolutely quantifiable and on record, as I laid out in my previous post. Again, I don't mean box office receipts, as that's a given. Without Shang-Chi's record breaking Labor Day weekend, Sony doesn't move Venom 2 up two weekends and several movie studios including Disney don't verbally commit to their theater exclusive release dates. This produced a domino effect on the stock prices of every U.S. movie chain seeing a substantial increase in their price. This then caused the CEO of nearly every movie chain to tweet out the praises of Shang Chi. By Shang-Chi's second week, all talk of day and date streaming taking over as the new venue for movies was dead. 20 or 30 media articles flooded the internet and newspapers proclaiming that the movie theater industry was on the rise again. In the weeks following Shang-Chi's release beginning with Venom 2, box office weekends have hovered regularly in the $100 million range.

While 2021 movies like Kong v Godzilla or QP2 helped keep the industry afloat as well theater chains adjusting their business model like offering viewing parties and such, it was Shang-Chi and Shang-Chi alone that produced the domino effect I described in the above paragraph. Not Godzilla v Kong. Not F9. Not Black Widow. Not Free Guy. It was Shang-Chi.

So how do you on one hand say it saved the industry, and on the other hand say the total box office does not matter (it is 4th for this year currently) ? That makes no sense, business works on money.  It works on continuing revenue streams.  This is a team effort essentially. If Shang-Chi had done the exact same BO but all these other movies crashed and burned, what  would that have ment? The $425 mil would still be okish,  but certainly it was not enough to save the theaters single handed. It did not do it alone, it was a piece of a bigger picture.

 

You could just as easily make the exact same arguments for Black Widow, or Kong v Godzilla. Maybe even a better argument, when people could have seen these movies for free and the decided to see it in a theater.   Now that is a powerful argument for people still wanting theaters.

Edited October 29, 2021 by drotto

[Bosco685]

113 reviews

[@therealsilvermane]

On 10/29/2021 at 7:06 PM, drotto said:

You could just as easily make the exact same arguments for Black Widow, or Kong v Godzilla. Maybe even a better argument, when people could have seen these movies for free and the decided to see it in a theater.   Now that is a powerful argument for people still wanting theaters.

Not really free. Black Widow was Premium Access $29.99 on Disney+ and you had to be a subscriber to HBO MAX, which isn't free, to see Kong v Godzilla.

[@therealsilvermane]

On 10/29/2021 at 7:06 PM, drotto said:

So how do you on one hand say it saved the industry, and on the other hand say the total box office does not matter (it is 4th for this year currently) ? That makes no sense, business works on money.  It works on continuing revenue streams.  This is a team effort essentially. If Shang-Chi had done the exact same BO but all these other movies crashed and burned, what  would that have ment? The $425 mil would still be okish,  but certainly it was not enough to save the theaters single handed. It did not do it alone, it was a piece of a bigger picture.

I don't have time to rewrite for a third time what I've already written, so I found a Den of Geek article from September that points out some of the same stuff I've been saying regarding Shang-Chi. I've excerpted it below:

"Yet love or hate Marvel movies, right now the actual owners of cinemas around the world should be very grateful to the company, particularly with the studio’s latest film, Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings, which appears to be calming industry jitters about the viability of theatrical distribution this fall. The point of which was underscored again this weekend when Shang-Chi grossed another $35.8 million at the North American box office.

Prior to Shang-Chi’s release, studios were already balking at rising anxiety among moviegoers about the safety of theaters due to the resurgence of COVID-19 driven by  the Delta variant and unvaccinated Americans. In August, the National Research Group found that the comfort level index with movie theaters among Americans had dropped to just 59 percent (it was over 80 percent in July), and shortly after these findings, studios began making major moves. Paramount Pictures delayed Clifford the Big Red Dog and Top Gun: Maverick to 2022; Sony pushed Venom: Let There Be Carnage from September to October with rumors suggesting another delay to January 2022 was imminent (Sony denied these reports).

Even Disney CEO Bob Chapek signaled that if Shang-Chi underperformed at the box office—as all of Disney’s Disney+ “Premier Access” hybrid releases have done to date—the studio would be open to considering Premier Access for other films in the fall, presumably including Marvel’s Eternals.

“On Shang-Chi, we actually think it’s going to be an interesting experiment for us,” Chapek said in August. “Because it’s got only a 45-day window for us. The prospect of being able to take a Marvel title to the service after going theatrical for 45 days will be yet another data point to inform our actions going forward on our titles.”

Well, Shang-Chi’s data point sent a clear message to Disney and the rest of Hollywood: You’re leaving money on the table, even with the Delta variant, if you flee another season or crawl toward day-and-date release strategies.

Hence Disney announcing last week, directly after Shang-Chi set records, that the rest of the Mouse and 20th Century Studios’ fall line-up would receive exclusively theatrical releases. Yes, Marvel’s Eternals would not follow Black Widow, Cruella, and Jungle Cruise into the realm of box office disappointments. But also sticking by movie theaters is Ridley Scott’s medieval drama, The Last Duel, and Steven Spielberg’s long awaited West Side Story remake. Even Matthew Vaughn’s The King’s Man, a pseudo-superhero and spy adventure that was originally supposed to release in November 2019, will finally see the light of day this December thanks to Shang-Chi.

Meanwhile the success of Shang-Chi is also giving other studios the confidence to stick to their guns. October alone looks like the most packed month of cinematic releases since 2019. In addition to Scott and 20th Century’s The Last Duel, moviegoers hungry for new stories have Edgar Wright’s hypnotic Last Night in Soho and Wes Anderson’s seemingly adroit The French Dispatch to look forward to. Horror hounds can count on Halloween Kills coming home for the spooky holiday—although with a bizarre day and date release strategy, which appears to have more to do with NBC-Universal’s streaming necessities at Peacock. Warner Brothers, meanwhile, has every reason to get Dune out in theaters and on HBO Max in time for its Oct. 22 due date. Then there’s that little movie called No Time to Die, which is looking prescient for sticking to its guns for a September/October rollout."

 

[paperheart]

the Eternals killed the MCU; so sad after the heroic work of Shang-Chi to save the movies

[drotto]

On 10/28/2021 at 8:00 PM, paperheart said:

55

Just hit 59% on RT for Eternals. 

[drotto]

On 10/29/2021 at 9:47 PM, drotto said:

Just hit 59% on RT for Eternals. 

Opps, Disney just paid someone to get it back to 60%.

[@therealsilvermane]

This RT reviewer gave Eternals 3.5 out 5 stars, yet RT designated the review "rotten." The RT fix is in?

 

 

[fantastic_four]

On 10/29/2021 at 10:04 PM, @therealsilvermane said:

This RT reviewer gave Eternals 3.5 out 5 stars, yet RT designated the review "rotten."

Where do you see him giving the film a star rating?  I don't see one in his review:

https://substreammagazine.com/2021/10/eternals-review-caught-between-the-mcu-mold-and-a-chance-to-break-free/

What does RT even do for reviewers who don't give numerical ratings?  Or do they require it to include a reviewer in their results?

[@therealsilvermane]

On 10/30/2021 at 12:51 AM, fantastic_four said:

Where do you see him giving the film a star rating?  I don't see one in his review:

https://substreammagazine.com/2021/10/eternals-review-caught-between-the-mcu-mold-and-a-chance-to-break-free/

What does RT even do for reviewers who don't give numerical ratings?  Or do they require it to include a reviewer in their results?

The 3 1/2 stars is in the image I posted under the review title to the right. I read the review and, while not glowing, it was generally positive. So far, about 4 or 5 "rotten" Eternals reviews should be "fresh" IMO.

But  you're right. When I clicked on your link, the star rating is gone. I don't know, it was there when I clipped the image anyway.

Edited October 30, 2021 by @therealsilvermane

[Larryw7]

On 10/29/2021 at 7:18 PM, Bosco685 said:

113 reviews

 

[drotto]

On 10/30/2021 at 12:59 AM, @therealsilvermane said:

The 3 1/2 stars is in the image I posted under the review title to the right. I read the review and it was generally positive. So far, about 4 or 5 "rotten" Eternals reviews should be "fresh" IMO.

And what about the ones labeled as fresh that could arguable be listed as rotten?  I think in this case it kinda cancels out. If you are going to pick through the reviews you need to pick though all of them.

 

From Cnet the final line in the review is "While I appreciate that Eternals takes a creative risk with its time-jumping events, its convoluted plot ultimately lets it down." This is listed as fresh.

 

From Below the Line  "The sad fact is that the Eternals are not the Avengers, nor were they ever going to be the Guardians of the Galaxy, so basically, Eternals is Marvel’s Suicide Squad… but with a slightly better ending"  This is also listed as fresh.

 

From the Jewish chronical "A mishmash of well-meaning, yet jarringly verbose and bafflingly incoherent nonsense which is only just about saved by some half decent performances."  Again listed as fresh.

 

From Looper, "Ultimately, "Eternals" feels a bit like homework: If you don't want the rest of the class to move on without you, it's mandatory; but in the end, you'll just be glad to turn it in and move along to the next thing."  Again labeled as fresh.

Read More: https://www.looper.com/641684/eternals-review-gods-among-us/?utm_campaign=clip

 

All we have proven is that with the binary RT scoring, reviews that are in the 4 to 6 out of 10 range are almost random.

 

 

 

Edited October 30, 2021 by drotto

[▫️]

Safe to say I don’t think Chloe will want to make any more comic book movies. She may have thought at the time; finally a big paycheck and guaranteed 90% RT. Now she’s thinking, “I should have made Nomadland 2.”

[▫️]

On 10/29/2021 at 7:23 PM, @therealsilvermane said:

I don't know how many times I have to explain that it's not Shang-Chi's box office receipts that's saved the movie theater experience but the chain reaction of behavior, attitude, industry moves, and continued uninterrupted bigger profits that it caused in its wake.

But… this article says Wonder Woman may be our savior. 

I can cherry pick articles too no matter how ridiculous they are. Want to see what other movies saved the industry? And saved it before Shang Chi?

Edited October 30, 2021 by Oddball

[Bosco685]

Now I see where this mindset comes from. Fanatics on social media take that same approach there when someone dislikes an MCU film.