MCU's THE ETERNALS (11/6/20) 8 8

[drotto]

On 11/13/2021 at 6:44 PM, @therealsilvermane said:

omg

First, the #metoomovement took off in 2017 due to the high profile sexual harassment cases involving Harvey Weinstein, a big time Hollywood producer, and Roger Ailes, the head of Fox News. These two high profile cases encouraged women across the country in all places of employment, from Hollywood to pro sports to corporations to bars and even schools, to speak up about their own sexual harassment stories. It caused a national, even global, shake-up and made society rethink the way it treats women everywhere, not just in Hollywood and at Fox News.

The thing with 2016 Ghostbusters wasn't just an organized group of trolls. It was a sentiment that you don't remake Ghostbusters and turn them into ladies. If Ghostbusters had been remade with Chris Rock, David Spade, Adam Sandler, and Andy Samberg for example, it probably would have gotten like 10% of the hate that the actual movie got. Heck, it might have even been cheered on with those guys.

If you recast GB period, with even them, it still would have failed. Why? There was no need or call to remake it. Replacing people in franchises is a proven recipe for failure. You want to honor women and diversity give them good new projects, or good new characters within existing properties. 

 

Edited November 13, 2021 by drotto

[Bosco685]

On 11/13/2021 at 5:59 PM, @therealsilvermane said:

It wasn't a small group of people. It became the narrative. Some of my own male friends were bad-mouthing the movie before it had released and some called me a traitor (in jest, obviously) after I saw the movie in theaters (yes, I'm a dude).

The debates amongst 'your group' must have gotten super-heated. Did anyone take sides?

 

Edited November 14, 2021 by Bosco685

[@therealsilvermane]

On 11/13/2021 at 7:42 PM, Bosco685 said:

The debates amongst 'your group' must have gotten super-heated. Did anyone take sides?

 

It wasn't that big a deal. I gave my thoughts on the movie, they were casually dismissed by some and others who respect my opinion seemed a bit surprised. I actually didn't care that much either way as I didn't care that much about the movie. I thought it was fine, no big deal.

Things didn't get bloody until Captain Marvel years later. I think I've lost a friend or two over that movie as a few folks I thought were friends called me things like "commie fascist" or a Nazi because I eagerly championed the movie, that's how crazy it was. A close relative of mine, though, said the only reason he saw Captain Marvel, even though he was a MCU fan, was because of me and he ended up actually liking the movie. It's mostly happy stories. I still can't believe people I personally knew threw hate terms at me over a comic book movie and me telling them they were wrong about it.

[drotto]

On 11/13/2021 at 8:01 PM, @therealsilvermane said:

It wasn't that big a deal. I gave my thoughts on the movie, they were casually dismissed by some and others who respect my opinion seemed a bit surprised. I actually didn't care that much either way as I didn't care that much about the movie. I thought it was fine, no big deal.

Things didn't get bloody until Captain Marvel years later. I think I've lost a friend or two over that movie as a few folks I thought were friends called me things like "commie fascist" or a Nazi because I eagerly championed the movie, that's how crazy it was. A close relative of mine, though, said the only reason he saw Captain Marvel, even though he was a MCU fan, was because of me and he ended up actually liking the movie. It's mostly happy stories. I still can't believe people I personally knew threw hate terms at me over a comic book movie and me telling them they were wrong about it.

I can honestly say, I have never lost a friend based on a different viewpoint on a movie.  Jolly good show there chap. That has to be the pinnacle of rigidly sticking to a singular viewpoint. 

[Gatsby77]

On 11/13/2021 at 6:49 PM, drotto said:

If you recast GB period, with even them, it still would have failed. Why? There was no need or call to remake it. Replacing people in franchises is a proven recipe for failure. You want to honor women and diversity give them good new projects, or good new characters within existing properties. 

 

Maybe. Maybe not.

The new film clearly features a new generation of replacements - even if one or more are the grandkids of (I think) Egon.

And early reviews state that it goes (almost) overboard on fan service - to the detriment of actually expanding / advancing the universe.

Just saying - this is the second film in a row that largely replaces the original set of characters, even if (fingers crossed) the surviving original trio features for more than just a cameo.

[@therealsilvermane]

On 11/13/2021 at 8:06 PM, drotto said:

I can honestly say, I have never lost a friend based on a different viewpoint on a movie.  Jolly good show there chap. That has to be the pinnacle of rigidly sticking to a singular viewpoint. 

First of all, they were the ones getting mad and throwing names at me. Second, it was on Facebook and that's where they "unfriended" me so I'm not sure how official it is, though I haven't seen or heard from them since. Look, people got real passionate in their dislike of that movie and me being maybe the #1 or 2 Captain Marvel fan on the planet, some bridges were going to get burned.

[DiamondCityComics]

The only thing I find wildly fanciful in this thread is that silver has friends. 

 

 

 

[▫️]

On 11/14/2021 at 2:07 AM, @therealsilvermane said:

This was 2016, before the #metoo movement took off in 2017. I think a lot of men questioned their stance on things regarding women and maybe had regrets after that.

Yeah, I’m sure all the misogynists in 2016 changed their minds the next year because of the me2 movement. 

[▫️]

On 11/14/2021 at 2:47 AM, drotto said:

GB 2016 failed because it was not what most fans wanted from a story perspective (in addition to being meh). It was nothing awful or sinister. They wanted to see their beloved charcters at best return, if possible, or at least see the story continued in a meaningful way. They did not want to see them replaced, by anyone. People are getting sick of remakes and reimaginations that pale in comparison to the originals.

Exactly. Ghostbusters 2016 would have failed with a male cast if they kept a similar storyline. I was excited to watch it being a fan of McKinnon and Wiig and even they couldn’t save it with the dialogue they were given to work with. I don’t even think the original cast could recreate that magic we are nostalgic for. I think reinventing it with some original cast support is the way to go. 

[▫️]

On 11/14/2021 at 4:06 AM, drotto said:

I can honestly say, I have never lost a friend based on a different viewpoint on a movie.  Jolly good show there chap. That has to be the pinnacle of rigidly sticking to a singular viewpoint. 

I’ve never lost a friend over a differing viewpoint period. I’ve never had a discovery that a friend of mine was a closet racist or sociopath. I tend to vet people before they enter the circle.

[▫️]

On 11/14/2021 at 4:33 AM, @therealsilvermane said:

First of all, they were the ones getting mad and throwing names at me. Second, it was on Facebook and that's where they "unfriended" me so I'm not sure how official it is, though I haven't seen or heard from them since. Look, people got real passionate in their dislike of that movie and me being maybe the #1 or 2 Captain Marvel fan on the planet, some bridges were going to get burned.

Are you twelve? Christ, go find a real cause to champion. Brie is doing fine in her mansion without you.

[Bosco685]

On 11/13/2021 at 11:30 PM, DiamondCityComics said:

The only thing I find wildly fanciful in this thread is that silver has friends. 

 

 

 

It was warring personalities in one body. The mirror doesn't lie. 

On 11/13/2021 at 7:42 PM, Bosco685 said:

The debates amongst 'your group' must have gotten super-heated. Did anyone take sides?

 

 

[Bosco685]

Quote

“Eternals” will keep its crown at the domestic box office, as the Marvel entry is projected to repeat as No. 1 with an estimated $27 million gross in its second weekend.

 

Should current projections pan out, the MCU entry will fall approximately 62% in its sophomore outing. Measured against the second weekends of other Marvel Studios releases this year, that’s a much steeper drop than the 52% sink of “Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings” and a healthier one than the 67% tumble “Black Widow” took. However, that latter film simultaneously debuted as a rental on Disney Plus through the streamer’s Premier Access program, a release strategy that undoubtedly impacted its ultimate box office performance.

Quote

“Eternals” is headed for one of the larger second weekend drops in the MCU’s eleven-year history. “Black Widow” outstanding, the only other franchise entries to fall at least 62% in their sophomore outings are 2018’s “Ant-Man and the Wasp” and 2017’s “Spider-Man: Homecoming,” both of which were competing against much busier summer seasons.

But I've heard depending on what news sources you reference, this was the most massive second weekend successes.

[drotto]

On 11/14/2021 at 7:29 AM, Bosco685 said:

But I've heard depending on what news sources you reference, this was the most massive second weekend successes.

And Eternals is about to get steamrolled by GB and Disney's Encanto. 

 

Again, regardless of audience reception, and film quality.  You can not spent $200 million to make a film and see returns of around $350 million box office. It is not a sustainable business model. It also shows that only the Marvel die hards (yes, there are a lot of them) are reliably seeing these films. The general public is losing or has lost interest, these movies are nowhere near the cultural touchstones that the Avenger movies had become.  It is too early to tell if wider public interest will return, but it is not there right now. If this trend continues Disney will have to re-evaluate which products and how much money they are spending on them.

[Bosco685]

Edited November 14, 2021 by Bosco685

[paperheart]

On 11/14/2021 at 6:44 AM, drotto said:

And Eternals is about to get steamrolled by GB and Disney's Encanto. 

 

Again, regardless of audience reception, and film quality.  You can not spent $200 million to make a film and see returns of around $350 million box office. It is not a sustainable business model. It also shows that only the Marvel die hards (yes, there are a lot of them) are reliably seeing these films. The general public is losing or has lost interest, these movies are nowhere near the cultural touchstones that the Avenger movies had become.  It is too early to tell if wider public interest will return, but it is not there right now. If this trend continues Disney will have to re-evaluate which products and how much money they are spending on them.

you keep saying $350MM, this dud will get closer to $450MM

[drotto]

On 11/14/2021 at 11:13 AM, Bosco685 said:

Is 165 to 175 million domestic disaapointing and a failure from an MCU perspective?  They spent 200 million making this.  At least 100 million more promoting this.  Is this the MCU's first flop?  Remember being a flop is somewhat relative.

[fantastic_four]

Saw the film yesterday.  Lots of questions that need to bubble up.

First one that's rather broad and my primary one I'm pondering--how close is this story to the comics?  I don't recall this idea of Celestials gestating in the womb of inhabited planets before this film.

[drotto]

On 11/14/2021 at 11:18 AM, paperheart said:

you keep saying $350MM, this dud will get closer to $450MM

Shang-chi outperformed Eternals on every metric and made $430 million world wide.  How then does Eternals get to $450? Black Widow has outperformed Etrnals on most metrics and made $380 million.  Based on those numbers around $350 millions seems very realistic. 

[Bosco685]

On 11/14/2021 at 11:18 AM, drotto said:

Is 165 to 175 million domestic disaapointing and a failure from an MCU perspective?  They spent 200 million making this.  At least 100 million more promoting this.  Is this the MCU's first flop?  Remember being a flop is somewhat relative.

The Incredible Hulk was the first flop.

Captain America: The First Avenger barely broke even.

Just with Marvel Studios it wisely stayed the course instead of panicking.