The NEW Overstreet 2019 w/TOP Golden Age Horror/Romance/Sci-Fi is Here 4 4

[sfcityduck]

23 hours ago, Cat-Man_America said:

The elephant in the room is that there needs to be some kind of official OSG acknowledgment of pedigree values as a higher percentage or multiple(s) of Guide as opposed to non-pedigreed books of equivalent grade.  This is difficult because not all pedigrees have been “created” equally, but it needs to be addressed.  That change alone would greatly benefit OSG as a book pricing reference, IMO.

Overstreet should address the pedigree, file copy, association copy, and signature copy concepts somewhere in a text piece.   But, I don't think they need be separated in the pricing data.  Many of the most valuable copies of a particular comic ever sold were not pedigrees (e.g. Action 1, AF 15, All Star 8, Batman 1, etc.).  The "bonus" for a pedigree or file copy is both highly volatile and also inconsistent between pedigrees with a number really getting no bounce at all over same graded non-pedigrees.  Association copies and signature copies are even more volatile and hard to judge.    

[Ricksneatstuff]

33 minutes ago, sfcityduck said:

Strongly disagree with this list.  Overstreet's list is of Sci-Fi comics, NOT SF covers!  While the omission of Planet is unforgiveable, I can't agree with a number of books on this list.

* Fantastic Comics 3 is not a Sci-Fi book.  It is a multi-genre anthology like Action Comics.  The cover is a superhero (Samson).  The interior includes spy and knight stories and Sci-Fi.  

* Famous Funniers 213 is also not a Sci-Fi book.  It's a strip reprint book.  Buck Rogers, Dickie Dare, other adventure and non-fiction.

* Superworld 1 is another anthology book.  Interior has mystery/detective/Little Nemo/adventure/fantasy in addition to SF.

* Batman 59 shows you aren't even trying to keep on Sci-Fi.

* Startling, Contact, and Blue Bolt, I'm less familiar with but aren't they all anthologies?

I get where you are coming from with Fantastic 3 and Batman but the others could be included in a sci-fi group I believe even if anthologies since they do include sci-fi stories and have sci-fi covers. The Frazetta FF run, even though only a portion of the interior is sci-fi, is almost always referred to as classic science fiction covers. Personally, I would include those anthologies with sci-fi elements inside and sci-fi covers in science fiction.

The thought that Planet Comics upward values have not been established is pretty hard to see as well. I think it has been on a steady increase for the 4 years I have been here and if anything, I see it growing even more currently. I think if the Church run were spread out and sold again over the next 6 months they would have mostly achieved higher numbers than they did in that single auction. I don't have much skin in Planets right now as I just have a handful and only one Church copy at the moment, but I think outside of Metropolis, I may have sold more Planet Comics than just about anybody over the last 2 years and I can say that their demand is quite high for rivets and copies in Fine or better. Most Planet threads have been pretty strong, especially if rivets are involved. I guess OSPG really takes their time to make sure something is not a fad before bringing pricing up. 

Edited July 19, 2019 by Ricksneatstuff

[sfcityduck]

16 minutes ago, Ricksneatstuff said:

I get where you are coming from with Fantastic 3 and Batman but the others could be included in a sci-fi group I believe even if anthologies since they do include sci-fi stories and have sci-fi covers.

To me, that view is the CGC talking.  Overstreet's list have always been of PURE SF, Horror, Romance, etc. genre comics, not a list of genre covers.  Maybe CGC has come to dominate the hobby to the point where the OPG should run top 10 lists of covers by genre, but that is not what those lists have been about for the past 40 years.  Famous Funnies is not a Sci-Fi genre series like Planet.  It's a strip reprint book that alternates Sci-Fi strip covers with a bunch of other strip genres.  It's a wholly different animal from Planet.

[Cat-Man_America]

20 minutes ago, Ricksneatstuff said:

I get where you are coming from with Fantastic 3 and Batman but the others could be included in a sci-fi group I believe even if anthologies since they do include sci-fi stories and have sci-fi covers. The Frazetta FF run, even though only a portion of the interior is sci-fi, is almost always referred to as classic science fiction covers. Personally, I would include those anthologies with sci-fi elements inside and sci-fi covers in science fiction.

The thought that Planet Comics upward values have not been established is pretty hard to see as well. I think it has been on a steady increase for the 4 years I have been here and if anything, I see it growing even more currently. I think if the Church run were spread out and sold again over the next 6 months they would have mostly achieved higher numbers than they did in that single auction. I don't have much skin in Planets right now as I just have a handful and only one Church copy at the moment, but I think outside of Metropolis, I may have sold more Planet Comics than just about anybody over the last 2 years and I can say that their demand is quite high for rivets and copies in Fine or better. Most Planet threads have been pretty strong, especially if rivets are involved. I guess OSPG really takes their time to make sure something is not a fad before bringing pricing up. 

This is one of the points I was trying to clarify earlier.  Yes, there has been a steady increase in upper grade Planet sales.  Those Church books were spectacular.  The jury is still out on mid-grade Planets. Fiction House covers are notorious for fading to orange, the strength of the color strike and overall art appeal being a big factor in desirability.  I suspect this’ll be factored in as well over the long term.  I’m not differing with other’s perception on Planet Comic values, I just take a more nuanced view of the market.

[Yorick]

23 hours ago, miraclemet said:

Ah my data collection was faulty cause I was just using a list of past sales. 

And NO ONE sells Starting 49! Especially not in high grade!

That's the reason why Cinderella Love 25 isn't number one on the romance list.  NO SALES!

[Ricksneatstuff]

1 minute ago, Yorick said:

That's the reason why Cinderella Love 25 isn't number one on the romance list.  NO SALES!

Cinderella Love 25 would definitely be #1 on the list. I am positive of this. 

[Yorick]

2 minutes ago, Ricksneatstuff said:

Cinderella Love 25 would definitely be #1 on the list. I am positive of this. 

How much did the highest graded copy sell for? 

[Ricksneatstuff]

1 minute ago, Yorick said:

How much did the highest graded copy sell for? 

I don't kiss and tell

[Dreamtoreal1]

1 hour ago, sfcityduck said:

Strongly disagree with this list.  Overstreet's list is of Sci-Fi comics, NOT SF covers!  While the omission of Planet is unforgiveable, I can't agree with a number of books on this list.

* Fantastic Comics 3 is not a Sci-Fi book.  It is a multi-genre anthology like Action Comics.  The cover is a superhero (Samson).  The interior includes spy and knight stories and Sci-Fi.  

* Famous Funniers 213 is also not a Sci-Fi book.  It's a strip reprint book.  Buck Rogers, Dickie Dare, other adventure and non-fiction.

* Superworld 1 is another anthology book.  Interior has mystery/detective/Little Nemo/adventure/fantasy in addition to SF.

* Batman 59 shows you aren't even trying to keep on Sci-Fi.

* Startling, Contact, and Blue Bolt, I'm less familiar with but aren't they all anthologies?

thank you for your input. For me would be mostly about the covers. And yes CGC definitely changed the market when you can't access the book and You only have the cover to look at like some piece of art.  Take horror books for example. If we judge by the quality of the stories on the inside, then all the EC Comics would make the list. "The Unseen" has some cool covers but the writing on the inside wasn't very good. They were copying EC and capitalizing on their success.

There is a problem also with first appearances. Hulk #180 (if I judge by cameo or appearance? that's first wolverine and Not #181. Do people still buy #180 over #181s ? Heck no

At the end of the day. What drives the value of a book or any collectible? Supply and Demand.  The list that I put together is like a genre list of comics as You said that I would invest my money *today* Because in my eyes I see them with the biggest potential of increase value in say 10,15,20 years ahead.  that's all

Do you have or Does someone have an older Overstreet for say the year 1980? 1990? 2000? I wonder what were considered the top horror books back then? pics?  thanks

[porcupine48]

4 minutes ago, Dreamtoreal1 said:

thank you for your input. For me would be mostly about the covers. And yes CGC definitely changed the market when you can't access the book and You only have the cover to look at like some piece of art.  Take horror books for example. If we judge by the quality of the stories on the inside, then all the EC Comics would make the list. "The Unseen" has some cool covers but the writing on the inside wasn't very good. They were copying EC and capitalizing on their success.

There is a problem also with first appearances. Hulk #180 (if I judge by cameo or appearance? that's first wolverine and Not #181. Do people still buy #180 over #181s ? Heck no

At the end of the day. What drives the value of a book or any collectible? Supply and Demand.  The list that I put together is like a genre list of comics as You said that I would invest my money *today* Because in my eyes I see them with the biggest potential of increase value in say 10,15,20 years ahead.  that's all

Do you have or Does someone have an older Overstreet for say the year 1980? 1990? 2000? I wonder what were considered the top horror books back then? pics?  thanks

I have some nineties ones,but I'm incredibly slothish getting things dug out.The one thing I remember about horror comics in the 90/91 book was that Silver Streak 3(?)and Classics 13 were listed as first possible horror books.I can't remember a specific horror write up at all tbh.I do remember #20 was the first time I saw Contact 12(swoon) and that 11 had a LB Cole write up.

[Dreamtoreal1]

16 minutes ago, porcupine48 said:

I have some nineties ones,but I'm incredibly slothish getting things dug out.The one thing I remember about horror comics in the 90/91 book was that Silver Streak 3(?)and Classics 13 were listed as first possible horror books.I can't remember a specific horror write up at all tbh.I do remember #20 was the first time I saw Contact 12(swoon) and that 11 had a LB Cole write up.

Interesting. Now I am really curious  I need to go to feebay and buy some old overstreets!

[GreatCaesarsGhost]

My favorite sci fi story of all time hides behind a PCH cover. And I’m sad to say it gets very little love from OPG and I don’t ever see it mentioned on the boards, either. So let me just throw it out there: Brain Bats of Venus!!!

[Dreamtoreal1]

12 minutes ago, GreatCaesarsGhost said:

My favorite sci fi story of all time hides behind a PCH cover. And I’m sad to say it gets very little love from OPG and I don’t ever see it mentioned on the boards, either. So let me just throw it out there: Brain Bats of Venus!!!

Nice Mister mystery #7 eh?  that would be a cool movie to make

[porcupine48]

59 minutes ago, Dreamtoreal1 said:

Interesting. Now I am really curious  I need to go to feebay and buy some old overstreets!

Oh man,the shipping...

I'm sure someone will come along shortly with some knowledge on any write ups. 

[PeterPark]

IIRC, I believe the top ten lists like that are newer. Golden age, Silver age and bronze age all had their sections expanded and coppers and moderns were added in addition to niche genres.

[bc]

1 hour ago, porcupine48 said:

Oh man,the shipping...

I'm sure someone will come along shortly with some knowledge on any write ups. 

The first OSPG to break out specific genres (other than top GA or SA books) is the 24th edition.

Give me a minute to post some pics.

[bc]

Here ya go - from OSPG 24 (1994)

[Dreamtoreal1]

53 minutes ago, bc said:

Here ya go - from OSPG 24 (1994)

that's amazing! thank you so much for sharing!

Planet comics had 13 out of the top 19 spots! That's how it should be today haha add issue #70! as well please

[bc]

3 minutes ago, Dreamtoreal1 said:

that's amazing! thank you so much for sharing!

Planet comics had 13 out of the top 19 spots! That's how it should be today haha add issue #70! as well please

 No problem sir. Glad to help out.

[Cat-Man_America]

15 hours ago, szav said:

Respectfully disagree with your nuanced view of the market.  One needs only spend a few minutes looking at GPA, or simply the HA archives,  to see a very clear across the board upward trend for the past 4 years on Planets for all issues even in low to mid grade.  Even the least desirable mid run issues rarely sniff guide at worst going for 25-50% above, and these that go "low" are typically those copies with the poorer color strikes.  The majority of the run goes far above guide and has been for some time.

Some like 33, and 35, and most of  65-72 have been going 4 to 5 times guide for years even in low to mid grade.  There is no excuse at this point for the prices to be sooooo far off on sooooo many of the issues. I Wouldn't really say the jury is out on these so much as I'd say the people at OSPG are out to lunch on them.

Public service announcement: I own 1 Planet comic...even as a self described FH nut, Planets have become too expensive for the degree that I like them to pursue them.

 

Not being a Fiction House collector I haven’t taken the pulse of Planet Comics recently.  Obviously this title isn’t on life support, but based on my recollection of raw books for sale Planets didn’t seem noticeably higher at regional shows the last few years.  That said, since I’m not collecting Planets my perception of pricing may be off so I’ll yield to your experience with this title. 

I dropped GPA years ago as the service only covered auction sales of one third party grading company. GPA misses a lot of private sales while big auctions tend to inflate values.  That doesn’t mean I’m disagreeing with your assessment, but prefer to defer to OSG’s more conservative analysis based on broad dealer input.  I’m sure that you’re correct about the current spate of high dollar sales not being outliers, but my inclination is remaining mildly dubious of trends primarily supported by GPA and big auction sales.  

Edited July 20, 2019 by Cat-Man_America