When will the other shoe drop with CGC and the 'crack, press, and resub' game? 3 3

[kav]

granted that perfect staple replacement is not the same thing, would CGC's stance on that change if it was impossible to tell if staples had been replaced?

[oakman29]

1 minute ago, Logan510 said:

I don't get what you're saying.

Pressing used to be restoration, even had a stigma to it.

[Logan510]

Just now, kav said:

granted that perfect staple replacement is not the same thing, would CGC's stance on that change if it was impossible to tell if staples had been replaced?

The graders at CGC are not infallible, humans make mistakes.

Nothing is 100%, but they've evened out the playing field quite a bit as the old days were like the wild west.

[oakman29]

1 minute ago, Logan510 said:

The graders at CGC are not infallible, humans make mistakes.

Nothing is 100%, but they've evened out the playing field quite a bit as the old days were like the wild west.

True that.

[kav]

1 minute ago, Logan510 said:

The graders at CGC are not infallible, humans make mistakes.

Nothing is 100%, but they've evened out the playing field quite a bit as the old days were like the wild west.

Maybe I'm goofy but I believe they would remove the stigma and start a staple replacement service.

[kav]

Just now, oakman29 said:

True that.

dang x 1000 

[Logan510]

Just now, oakman29 said:

Pressing used to be restoration, even had a stigma to it.

I get what you're saying and I know quite a few collectors have been so turned off by the market acceptance of it that they've stopped collecting comics. Unfortunately for them it's a bell that can't be un rung.

I can only speak for myself, but it doesn't bother me 

[Logan510]

1 minute ago, kav said:

Maybe I'm goofy but I believe they would remove the stigma and start a staple replacement service.

Maybe? 

Personally I don't want books for myself that have staple replacements, trimmed edges or color touch.

[oakman29]

Just now, Logan510 said:

I get what you're saying and I know quite a few collectors have been so turned off by the market acceptance of it that they've stopped collecting comics. Unfortunately for them it's a bell that can't be un rung.

I can only speak for myself, but it doesn't bother me 

Oh I agree with you on the cant un ring that bell , Sadly.

[kav]

2 minutes ago, Logan510 said:

I know quite a few collectors have been so turned off by the market acceptance of it that they've stopped collecting comics.

ok thats an extreme reaction!

[kav]

Just now, oakman29 said:

Oh I agree with you on the cant un ring that bell , Sadly.

according to quantum theory, it is possible to un ring a bell.

[Logan510]

Just now, kav said:

according to quantum theory, it is possible to un ring a bell.

dang

[kav]

Presstoration

[James J Johnson]

1 hour ago, oakman29 said:

Pressing comics is solely a for profit situation for CGC , you cant tell me that pressing is not noticeable.  Now CGC has a pressing service? C'mon!

For the overwhelming majority of hobbyists, pressing correctly done cannot be detected.

[James J Johnson]

52 minutes ago, kav said:

according to quantum theory, it is possible to un ring a bell.

In the immortal words of Cecil Turtle to Bugs Bunny after the hare beat the tortoise in their race, "You'd have to be going awfully fast to do it".

[GreatCaesarsGhost]

9 hours ago, Randall Dowling said:

3.  I keep reading people post analogies between pressing and the way that books were reportedly stored by Edgar Church.  Please stop.

Good job, Randall. My thoughts exactly 

Edited July 22, 2019 by GreatCaesarsGhost

[comicwiz]

6 hours ago, oakman29 said:

Well if they are trying to bring a lesser copy to look new again, its restoration. 

 

This is what 99% of people outside of our hobby will think when they hear an explanation of alterations being performed on a comic that make it look like it was better cared for than it really was. If they they learn that 9 out of 10 times, there was nothing really wrong with the book to begin with, but a money-hungry individual performed these alterations in an attempt to inflate the grade and sell it for more than they paid, they'll completely understand why people like myself steer clear of it.

[namisgr]

5 hours ago, James J Johnson said:

For the overwhelming majority of hobbyists, pressing correctly done cannot be detected.

It's not as hard as you may think for early Silver Age Marvels.

[comicwiz]

7 hours ago, Randall Dowling said:

I really dislike chiming in on threads like this but it feels like there’s a couple of critical concerns that are being missed.

1.  Contrary to what everyone that presses books will espouse, the entire market does not accept pressing as a harmless intervention that magically improves every book without consequences. In fact, there are many cases in which it looks like continuous vertical color-breaking creasing along the spine may be just one of the many hazards of pressing.  But CGC doesn’t downgrade for this.  This can happen in many other ways outside of pressing but it’s still as much of a concern as stress on staples, shrinkage, and all the other signs that have been identified as consequences of pressing.  It’s something I didn’t even notice until a friend pointed it out to me.

2.  The real concern for the long term health of any and all collectible market is doubt.  Doubt that the item in question is legitimate creates an environment of risk that is to the greater collecting public, undesirable.  I’ve been collecting for over 40 years now and remember when all restoration was considered “beneficial” and unnecessary to disclose.  The consequence was that for the last 30 years, collectors have been finding out the hard way that their prized copy was altered and less valuable than believed.  Essentially, they were tricked and left feeling disenchanted and bitter as a consequence.  The primary value of the introduction of CGC grading was to remove doubt.  Doubt of grade, doubt of restoration, doubt of undisclosed alterations.  And yet, increasingly, this game of allowing certain alterations but not others, not disclosing grading standards, and encouraging resubmittal, has only institutionalized doubt into all books that have been graded by CGC.  I personally, would rather purchase an ungraded book than one graded by CGC and would pay more for the ungraded copy.  Because right now, as crazy as it sounds, it’s probably less likely to have been messed with.  I get why CGC does this.  It’s all money and more grading fees.  Why get paid once to grade a book when you can get paid over and over and over again?  I consider it an obvious conflict of interest.

3.  I keep reading people post analogies between pressing and the way that books were reportedly stored by Edgar Church.  Please stop.  There is absolutely no similarity whatsoever and I’m pretty sure the people that post that know it.  There was neither a humidity bath nor intense heat introduced to alter the structure of those books.  I get how associating pressing with the most prestigious pedigree in comic collecting makes pressing sound more legitimate.  But it really is a disingenuous analogy.

Many people are fine with the current environment of non-stop CPR (usually those that are profiting from it).  But others aren’t.  That’s fine but it should be discussed accordingly. 

Well stated. Particularly the part about how third-party grading was meant to stop the climate of nervousness around buying comics with undisclosed tampering. But the opposite has happened now, and CGC has not only enabled these deceptive practices, but rewarded it, and have monetized it for themselves. I hadn't seen anyone use the comparison to the Church books in this thread, and agree 100% with you. It is without question not only the dumbest analogy I have ever heard, but a very dangerous statement to perpetuate. I had hoped anyone with half a brain would have long ago stopped spewing this nonsense, but if people insist, then be prepared to take the heat for it, because frankly you become the sewage waste in the cesspool this hobby has become by stating such falsehoods.

[THE_BEYONDER]

7 hours ago, oakman29 said:

Pressing used to be restoration, even had a stigma to it.

It still is restoration, and many collectors still apply a stigma to it.