When will the other shoe drop with CGC and the 'crack, press, and resub' game? 3 3

[RockMyAmadeus]

3 minutes ago, THE_BEYONDER said:

At no point did Borock include cleaning in his disclaimer....

Ok, thanks for the correction.

 

[namisgr]

32 minutes ago, LordRahl said:

I am willing to bet that if you and I were to sit down with 50 high grade copper books, 25 of which were pressed by Joey and 25 of which are virgin, we would not be able to accurately identify the majority of pressed ones. By majority let's say 20 of 25. At least I know I can't ID high grade copper books that have been pressed and I've seen my fair share. This doesn't hold true of Silver and to some extent Bronze but for Copper and Modern, it's just not possible (the majority of pressing is being done with Copper and Modern as those are obviously much more ubiquitous). 

Agreed.  I never mentioned anything about detecting pressed Copper or Modern Age comics.

[kav]

44 minutes ago, James J Johnson said:

We should have a "pressed or not pressed" contest, using clear, large, high res images of CGC graded books, front and back, if that's possible. Not just Silver age. Across the entire spectrum, Golden age to 2019 issues. Be interesting to see how much better than a coin flip the winner is able to score.

Here's the first entry-which book was pressed?
 

[LordRahl]

5 minutes ago, namisgr said:

Agreed.  I never mentioned anything about detecting pressed Copper or Modern Age comics.

Wouldn't this put CGC and any other 3rd party graders in a no-win position though? They can't tell pressing across the board so they are only going to comment on it on 1 particular sub segment of the hobby (SA books). That would seem to open them up to all sorts of problems, no? 

[LordRahl]

6 minutes ago, kav said:

Here's the first entry-which book was pressed?
 

Maybe RMA or Joey can comment but I'm pretty sure that flare wouldn't be there if it had been pressed correctly. I could be wrong, maybe you can't avoid the flare with certain books. But I can guarantee you that flare isn't present on a lot (most?) pressed books.

[joeypost]

2 minutes ago, LordRahl said:

Maybe RMA or Joey can comment but I'm pretty sure that flare wouldn't be there if it had been pressed correctly. I could be wrong, maybe you can't avoid the flare with certain books. But I can guarantee you that flare isn't present on a lot (most?) pressed books.

You shouldn't have any flare. Pizzazz maybe, but no flare. 

[namisgr]

10 minutes ago, LordRahl said:

Wouldn't this put CGC and any other 3rd party graders in a no-win position though? They can't tell pressing across the board so they are only going to comment on it on 1 particular sub segment of the hobby (SA books). That would seem to open them up to all sorts of problems, no? 

What do you see as the problems?

As for comics pressed by CCS, CGC can note with absolute certainty that they've been pressed.  

To be clear, I'm not asking anything of CGC beyond their taking into consideration flaws introduced by pressing into their ultimate numerical grades.  Long time collectors of early SA Marvels in high grade have seen too many instances of comics with far less eye appeal and with new flaws after pressing receiving higher grades than their nicer looking unpressed versions.  As for the rest of it, I'm out of collecting high grade Silver and have no skin in the game any more, having sold off my entire collection with no intention of buying any SA back again.

[LordRahl]

I would think that putting something potentially negative (maybe not so much anymore but certainly 10 years ago it was) on the label of a Silver book when you aren't doing it for Copper would be a problem. I'm guessing a lot more people would be complaining that their SA books are being unfairly stigmatized since there are a lot more Coppers and Moderns being pressed where it won't be identified on the label. As for noting what CCS has pressed, sure they could. Kind of the same problem though. They are only identifying what has been pressed by one pressing company out of many. Which would most likely lead to no one using CCS. This isn't the same thing as noting traditional resto. With CT or trimming for example, detection isn't based on the age of the book or who did the work.

As for downgrading for pressing defects, I'm pretty sure they started doing this, no?

[Catwomancomics]

1 hour ago, THE_BEYONDER said:

At no point did Borock include cleaning in his disclaimer....

I’m new to this whole disclaimer you’re are talking about.  Where can I find it?

[THE_BEYONDER]

4 minutes ago, Catwomancomics said:

I’m new to this whole disclaimer you’re are talking about.  Where can I find it?

When Steve Borock used to sell here, he would put a disclaimer on his sales threads that read "consider all books pressed"

[Catwomancomics]

12 minutes ago, THE_BEYONDER said:

When Steve Borock used to sell here, he would put a disclaimer on his sales threads that read "consider all books pressed"

Thank you

[FlyingDonut]

Yay! Another pressing thread!

[James J Johnson]

44 minutes ago, THE_BEYONDER said:

Might as well hold the same contest and have contestants try to deduce if a page is missing....

My point exactly. Although if there were a way to have a contest, using actual books as examples, I think it would be interesting and fun.

[D84]

1 hour ago, kav said:

Here's the first entry-which book was pressed?
 

I vote both.

[Catwomancomics]

@THE_BEYONDER

@RockMyAmadeus

This is s screen shot from CCS about their pressing service. It states that dry cleaning is included when necessary.  Although  Borock never personally disclosed dry cleaning, it’s apart of pressing service.

[comicwiz]

3 hours ago, VintageComics said:

The same topic was started in the Watercooler and I was personally attacked by several people even though I thought I stated my points pretty clearly and fairly.

I don't appreciate being accused of hyperbole, particularly because I've been here long enough to know when these words are thrown around as an attempt to discredit someone. I also made it clear what my stance was on the subject, so before playing victim, let's establish the order and accuracy of who made personal attacks first.

[comicwiz]

25 minutes ago, FlyingDonut said:

Yay! Another pressing thread!

Dude, what is it with you? Do you need to post the same, regurgitative tripe over and over again? We got your point, not a fan of pressing thread. I'm not a fan of pointless banter that does nothing to contribute to a topic, which I and others here appear to find important enough, particularly in light of recent goings on in other collectible markets, where inflating grades and prices are being investigated, and it's not only the submitter, but the grader and auctioneer.

You might think the ship sailed long ago, I see it as a timely discussion with contextual relevance to the underhanded activity that been allowed to go on in comics for far too long.

Edited July 22, 2019 by comicwiz

[RockMyAmadeus]

10 minutes ago, D84 said:

I vote both.

I'm pretty sure it's the same book in both pictures, one showing flaring, the second showing the flaring fixed. I am no biomechanical engineer, but by observation and experience, it is my opinion that flaring is caused by an imbalance in the ambient humidity of the paper fibers. Correcting that imbalance usually resolves the issue. 

[RockMyAmadeus]

Boy, the natives are restless tonight...

Is that still allowed..? Restless natives...?

 

Edited July 22, 2019 by RockMyAmadeus

[James J Johnson]

4 minutes ago, Catwomancomics said:

@THE_BEYONDER

@RockMyAmadeus

This is s screen shot from CCS about their pressing service. It states that dry cleaning is included when necessary.  Although  Borock never personally disclosed dry cleaning, it’s apart of pressing service.

Yes. Removing debris from the covers is as important a part of pressing as the pressing itself, just like the cleaning of covers prior to reglossing. Without cleaning, any surface residue will be amateurishly baked/impressed into the surface, making any attempt to clean it up afterward far more difficult. Nobody waxes a car or buffs out scratches without first cleaning it.