November HA auction 2 2

[romitaman]

On 11/22/2019 at 3:32 PM, delekkerste said:

So far, not good on my consignments:

4% loss on my Enric Vampirella painting (held since 2003)

19% loss on my Jose Gonzalez Vampirella complete story (held since 2008), which is a classic story.  Sold well below the break-up value, didn't even clear $1K a page.  Some dealer will have the splash priced at $5-$10K soon enough I'm sure.  I should have just broken it up myself.  Extremely unhappy about this result. 

50% loss on my Jose Gonzalez color piece (held since 2003).  This does not spark joy.

Buy what you like only works as a strategy if you like what everybody else likes apparently.  

I bought your Gonzalez story.....I thought it was a great buy and a killer splash which I felt was worth the entire story price!!!!

(it would have gone for a lot less had i not bid....right???) 

[romitaman]

7 hours ago, zhamlau said:

My set of color guides for Secret Wars issue 8 comes up at the very end tonight, what’s that like 11pm est? 

Well i helped you get a better price on this lot as i placed a proxy bid at 6pm, and I was underbidder, (I didnt feel like bidding after 11pm or so) ..LOL

Edited November 24, 2019 by romitaman

[Grant Turner]

Crazy that the Wally Wood DD pages went for 18k and 22k and then then the Wood inks over Heck Avengers 21 pg today went for 18k.  And that was the Sunday page, the Two Saturday pages from the same book went for 6.6k and 9k respectively.  Just when you think you have this figured out...

[Rick2you2]

5 hours ago, tth2 said:

Presumably people don't submit punishment bids beyond what they're actually willing to pay.  If they do, then they're taking a gamble for the reasons you mention.  

But generally, sometimes I'll know that there is at least one bidder who is really focused on a piece and is willing to pay more than me for the piece.  If I don't bid at all because I know I'm not going to win anyways, then he might end up getting it for a song and still have a lot of dry powder left to compete with me on a piece that I really do want.  So I'm going to make sure that he has to at least outbid my maximum price for the piece. 

I may ultimately not be a factor at all because there's at least one other bidder going after it who drives the price up further than my punishment bid.  Or I may have miscalculated his interest and I end up winning it, but what's the downside because I won the piece at a price I was willing to pay.  But what's not going to happen is that one of my competitors will win a piece for cheap (or at least what I perceive to be cheap). 

That theory only works in a show like Storage Wars where the rules limit you to the amount you have on you. With private bidding like for comic art, the only limit is a willingness to spend. And, with credit cards available, that limit can be pretty high. If you bid your maximum for a piece you really want, even if you think you will lose, that is not a punishment bid. More like a “forlorn hope” which sometimes works out.

The only time I will bid on something I don’t really want is to put in a tracking bid on sites which won’t let me track for free (like Clink).

[delekkerste]

9 hours ago, Stevemmg said:

It gets even more bizarre. The Gonzalo Mayo triptych hammered at $6600 with the juice. You seem to have had much of the same bad luck I had in my last sale through Heritage when I set all time low records for more than 50 items. I know it won’t make you feel any better at all, but I was the high bidder on your Gonzalez color piece. I’ll be putting it next to this one. 

I was also shocked that the other color piece in the auction sold comparably in price to your clearly superior offering..

Enjoy it in good health!  It will look great next to your other color piece.  Good to see it going to someone who will give it a good home. 

[delekkerste]

8 hours ago, romitaman said:

I bought your Gonzalez story.....I thought it was a great buy and a killer splash which I felt was worth the entire story price!!!!

(it would have gone for a lot less had i not bid....right???) 

Thanks for helping me not take an even bigger bath!  

My friend was trying to console me post-sale saying that he thought the story sold in-line with past comps, but, I said no way, you can't compare the mediocre mid-run efforts with a classic early story like this with an amazing splash (and it certainly shouldn't have sold for well below what I paid 11+ years ago!)  I told him that I bet that either Albert or Burkey will end up with it, because there was waaaaaaaay too much meat left on the bone for a canny dealer not to have scooped it up.  And, as usual, I was right!  

You will easily be able to break up the story and price the components cumulatively at more than double the purchase price.  I don't know if the splash is worth more than the purchase price (though, Albert had what I would consider a very nice-but-not-as-good Vampi splash priced at $12K at his table not long ago), but, I think it is at least a solid mid-4 figure piece (if not more), while many of the interiors are great and will easily fetch $2K or more each. 

Congrats on the great buy; I only wish that there were other people knowledgeable enough about this part of the market and passionate enough about the stellar art from this part of the run to have bid it up closer to what it should have gone for! 

Edited November 24, 2019 by delekkerste

[Rick2you2]

34 minutes ago, delekkerste said:

Thanks for helping me not take an even bigger bath!  

My friend was trying to console me post-sale saying that he thought the story sold in-line with past comps, but, I said no way, you can't compare the mediocre mid-run efforts with a classic early story like this with an amazing splash (and it certainly shouldn't have sold for well below what I paid 11+ years ago!)  I told him that I bet that either Albert or Burkey will end up with it, because there was waaaaaaaay too much meat left on the bone for a canny dealer not to have scooped it up.  And, as usual, I was right!  

You will easily be able to break up the story and price the components cumulatively at more than double the purchase price.  I don't know if the splash is worth more than the purchase price (though, Albert had what I would consider a very nice-but-not-as-good Vampi splash priced at $12K at his table not long ago), but, I think it is a solid mid-4 figure piece, while many of the interiors are great and will easily fetch $2K or more each. 

Congrats on the great buy; I only wish that there were other people knowledgeable enough about this part of the market and passionate enough about the stellar art from this part of the run to have bid it up closer to what it should have gone for! 

I was just wondering what the penalty is if a seller through Heritage tries to back out of the deal and refuses to send the artwork? Yes, I know it would be a breach of contract, etc., and I would expect a ban by Heritage on the seller's use of Heritage for further transactions, but is there anything else? Or, does Heritage actually have all the art in hand before it is listed? Never having been seller, I just don't know.

I won something at a low price which I really want; that's where the question is coming from.

[John E.]

3 hours ago, Rick2you2 said:

That theory only works in a show like Storage Wars where the rules limit you to the amount you have on you. With private bidding like for comic art, the only limit is a willingness to spend. And, with credit cards available, that limit can be pretty high. If you bid your maximum for a piece you really want, even if you think you will lose, that is not a punishment bid. More like a “forlorn hope” which sometimes works out.

The only time I will bid on something I don’t really want is to put in a tracking bid on sites which won’t let me track for free (like Clink).

Sorry I disagree. If there is a piece of art that is way undervalued in the last minutes of auction and I feel that the buyer shouldn’t pay less than $X, I will put in bids to make sure the buyer doesn’t get it for less than $Y price. If I win it, great; maybe I got a deal on it. But my intention isn’t to win it; it’s to make sure it doesn’t go for a wholesale price. Hence, punishment bid. 

[vodou]

11 hours ago, Stevemmg said:

The Gonzalo Mayo triptych hammered at $6600 with the juice.

Awful art, even uglier final number. Hope the new owner truly LOVES it

[vodou]

1 hour ago, Rick2you2 said:

Or, does Heritage actually have all the art in hand before it is listed?

Unlike CLink, the images on HA are all HA's..that should tell you everything you need to know...about both houses

[batman_fan]

8 hours ago, romitaman said:

I must confess...I bought the ASM Romita 41 page.....I Had to do it...... As i now only need 1 more page to complete the book....And I think I know where it's at!!!  LOL

Congrats. That is an amazing page

[pemart1966]

9 hours ago, romitaman said:

I must confess...I bought the ASM Romita 41 page.....I Had to do it...... As i now only need 1 more page to complete the book....And I think I know where it's at!!!  LOL

Then you'll only need the cover for the complete book  

Edited November 24, 2019 by pemart1966

[zhamlau]

9 hours ago, romitaman said:

Well i helped you get a better price on this lot as i placed a proxy bid at 6pm, and I was underbidder, (I didnt feel like bidding after 11pm or so) ..LOL

It just seems weird. I get 50-75 for color guides before from the era with good content. I think it was just to late on a time no one was looking. I bought a few good pieces Saturday on the cheap so what goes around comes around I guess.

[malvin]

2 hours ago, vodou said:

Unlike CLink, the images on HA are all HA's..that should tell you everything you need to know...about both houses

For their auctions, CLink also has the art in hand I believe, at least for all my consignments I sent it to them.  I think only their Exchange selling is where you keep the art and then only send once it sells.

Malvin

[delekkerste]

13 hours ago, Stevemmg said:

It gets even more bizarre. The Gonzalo Mayo triptych hammered at $6600 with the juice.

I just looked this one up.     Unreal!!  

It's such a thin market for niche material like this, that the addition or subtraction of 1 or 2 bidders can sometimes result in an enormous swing in prices.  Sometimes you get results like the $20.4K Enric Vampi gallery painting in the August HA auction (nobody saw that coming), and sometimes you get results like my former Enric Vampi gallery painting (IMHO, the best gallery painting he ever did by a wide margin) selling for $2.8K five years ago and saddling me with a >$10K loss.  

[vodou]

46 minutes ago, delekkerste said:

like my former Enric Vampi gallery painting (IMHO, the best gallery painting he ever did by a wide margin) selling for $2.8K five years ago

2800 ---not even worth selling. Not that you knew that going in but still. A harsh critical eye at your own holdings sometimes means just living with certain pieces until you die. "Buy what you love" should be followed with "and are happy eating cost on and dying with". You have your reasons for the buy but also the sell. But I know there are pieces I have where the former applies and I've always applied the latter too. Always. So no, I wouldn't be rolling in my grave if I was dead or if it was my buy/sell either, I wouldn't have sold or wouldn't have bought* to begin with.

 

*This is exactly what happened re: Enric actually. I remember this material floating around fifteen years ago for (imo) stupid money. It's not that the art wasn't attractive, but the price wasn't. Not even a little bit. Not only that but the other opportunities of the period were obviously better in comparison (roi potential), the equation was so obviously lopsided in favor of just about anything else in the hobby other than these oversized unpublished gallery works. I knew buying the stuff, at those prices, meant until you die, which wasn't any Enric.

[grapeape]

5 hours ago, Rick2you2 said:

I was just wondering what the penalty is if a seller through Heritage tries to back out of the deal and refuses to send the artwork? Yes, I know it would be a breach of contract, etc., and I would expect a ban by Heritage on the seller's use of Heritage for further transactions, but is there anything else? Or, does Heritage actually have all the art in hand before it is listed? Never having been seller, I just don't know.

I won something at a low price which I really want; that's where the question is coming from.

Your going to get your art. The art is in their possession before the auction begins.

[grapeape]

3 hours ago, pemart1966 said:

Then you'll only need the cover for the complete book  

Mike doesn’t care about the covers necessarily. Covers for interiors and complete books made Mike the Kingpin.

 

[Peter L]

5 hours ago, Rick2you2 said:

I was just wondering what the penalty is if a seller through Heritage tries to back out of the deal and refuses to send the artwork? Yes, I know it would be a breach of contract, etc., and I would expect a ban by Heritage on the seller's use of Heritage for further transactions, but is there anything else? Or, does Heritage actually have all the art in hand before it is listed? Never having been seller, I just don't know.

I won something at a low price which I really want; that's where the question is coming from.

Over 10 years ago there was a piece of art that I really wanted listed for Heritage.  All of a sudden, the art is not for sale anymore.  I'm pretty sure it was even in the catalogue.  I called Heritage and they said that the seller pulled it back.  They said this is not usually allowed, but he was willing to offer an even more valuable piece or pieces of art in exchange for doing this.  The seller was one of the most famous public collectors in the world who has since sold many other things in his collection, some of which I bought off of Heritage, so I'm guessing they were also counting on his future business.  

[MyNameIsLegion]

you can remove an item from an auction before it goes to the floor- happens from time to time. After the HA-ck recently, many of the Sunday auction lots got pulled because they didn't get good exposure due to the outage. But once they strike the gavel that sucker is sold, and it is no longer yours.  Even if the buyer backs out, I'm not sure it doesn't default to the next highest bidder- there may be some fine print there where the consignor has some say in that though.  Neither the consignor nor HA is motivated to take a lesser amount, but HA is motivated to conclude a legally binding sale whether you like it or not and I'm sure the fine print of their terms and conditions reflect that.