Disney+'s SECRET INVASION show (2022?) 5 5

[Bosco685]

It's the challenge for any franchise when you develop this large pool of characters and then a galaxy-impacting event lead to an extensive portion of those superheroes not being involved.

Sure, we could write it off as "they had no idea". But then you consider characters like The Living Tribunal (existance confirmed after-the-fact in Phase IV) or even Zeus being part of this universe. And they ignored something this significant as wiping out half the galaxy? But after seeing the extensive damage done by Scarlet Witch in Multiverse of Madness, this clearly shows how the Infinity Sage under-powered her just to keep a story going. As she clearly was much more powerful than conveyed previously.

[fantastic_four]

On 8/11/2023 at 12:49 PM, Bosco685 said:

you consider characters like The Living Tribunal (existance confirmed after-the-fact in Phase IV) or even Zeus being part of this universe. And they ignored something this significant as wiping out half the galaxy?

How would they have known?  Celestials and the various gods are either very powerful or omnipotent, but they're not omniscient, i.e. all-knowing.  The Living Tribunal is probably omniscient, but he may not have cared what Thanos did in one universe since it wouldn't threaten the multiverse.  The Avengers knew only because they had three of the stones, and after Thanos took the space stone from Loki Banner warned the Avengers about Thanos and his plan.  I saw no indication there was any further knowledge of the fight with Thanos among anyone else aside from the Avengers and their allies.

[fantastic_four]

I just realized that it should be implicit that the Celestials couldn't be harmed by the Infinity stones.  If they were vulnerable to them they would have taken possession of them billions of years before life evolved, right after Arishem kicked off the Big Bang.

[Bosco685]

On 8/11/2023 at 1:31 PM, fantastic_four said:

How would they have known?  Celestials and the various gods are either very powerful or omnipotent, but they're not omniscient, i.e. all-knowing.  The Living Tribunal is probably omniscient, but he may not have cared what Thanos did in one universe since it wouldn't threaten the multiverse.  The Avengers knew only because they had three of the stones, and after Thanos took the space stone from Loki Banner warned the Avengers about Thanos and his plan.  I saw no indication there was any further knowledge of the fight with Thanos among anyone else aside from the Avengers and their allies.

How would Zeus have not known? Think about that.

With the Living Tribunal, he is the ultimate power in the Marvel Universe. From the wiki page:

Quote

The Living Tribunal is an entity that oversees and maintains balance in the realities that constitute the Marvel Comics Multiverse, including the mainstream universe and all alternate universes. He serves as a judge of these realities.

 

The character is first encountered by Doctor Strange, announcing its intent to destroy Earth due to its potential for evil. After a series of trials, Doctor Strange is able to convince the Living Tribunal that good also exists, and Earth is spared.

It isn't just the Multiverse he oversees. If anyone is going to determine a being's actions as counter to life, it is the Living Tribunal who then would have made a decision about Thanos and his motivations.

[Artboy99]

On 8/10/2023 at 3:01 PM, kimik said:

That means it is totally unwatchable sh ite then if it is worth than those two films. I have still not seen TL&T based on recommendations/warnings from friends who have.

and I hope you never waste your time and watch it: complete she ite. It is far worse than Ant-Man 3.

Edited August 11, 2023 by Artboy99

[Artboy99]

On 8/10/2023 at 3:53 PM, drotto said:

He did not start the MCU, he only started to take control when Disney bought Marvel.  The fact is John Favreau and Ike Perlmutter laid the early groundwork with Iron Man which was released in 2008. Disney  bought Marvel in December 2009.  Feige did not get complete control till Perlmutter was ousted in 2015, which was well into the MCU as we know it, and the roadmap to Endgame was already set.

 

Therefor, most of the foundation was laid with multiple people's input, and everything had been laid out through Endgame. So there were people balancing out Feige, and there to question some of his decisions and tendencies.  From Endgame on, it is all Feige, and that is where the MCU started to flounder. 

 

Spider-Man is a co-production with Sony,  so Feige is the main person, but other have say when that character us used. It is it's own thing to a degree, and he does not have complete control. 

 

So yes, Feige has gained heaps of credit for the earlier MCU, but that was a time when he shared responsibilities and was required to listen to others.  Since he has gained complete control and the original roadmap had reached the end, is when things started to decline. I have no idea who could replace him however, but it is time.

 

LOL I could replace him. So could you. Anyone that has read comics over the last 50 years that has an understanding of the characters of Marvel could do it far better in my opinion.

What were the most successful movies they have made? Answer: the ones where the characters stayed true to the most well known versions of themselves and told great stories involving them.

 

Edited August 11, 2023 by Artboy99

[Artboy99]

On 8/11/2023 at 2:53 PM, Bosco685 said:

How would Zeus have not known? Think about that.

With the Living Tribunal, he is the ultimate power in the Marvel Universe. From the wiki page:

It isn't just the Multiverse he oversees. If anyone is going to determine a being's actions as counter to life, it is the Living Tribunal who then would have made a decision about Thanos and his motivations.

Neither chose to do anything because they saw all the way to the end result where things were restored so they did not need to intervene?

[kimik]

On 8/11/2023 at 5:05 PM, Artboy99 said:

and I hope you never waste your time and watch it: complete she ite. It is far worse than Ant-Man 3.

Wow. That sets the bar extremely low. Looks like the SI set I found will be in the 50% off box at the Edmonton Expo in September.  

[Artboy99]

On 8/11/2023 at 5:47 PM, kimik said:

Wow. That sets the bar extremely low. Looks like the SI set I found will be in the 50% off box at the Edmonton Expo in September.  

I was talking about Thor Love and Thunder being worse than Antman Quantumania. I have not watched Secret Invasion (yet) but the consensus is the tv show under delivered.

[kimik]

On 8/11/2023 at 5:53 PM, Artboy99 said:

On 8/11/2023 at 5:47 PM, kimik said:

Wow. That sets the bar extremely low. Looks like the SI set I found will be in the 50% off box at the Edmonton Expo in September.  

I was talking about Thor Love and Thunder being worse than Antman Quantumania. I have not watched Secret Invasion (yet) but the consensus is the tv show under delivered.

Ah. So there may be hope for a sale at a decent price for that set yet..........

[Artboy99]

On 8/11/2023 at 5:55 PM, kimik said:

Ah. So there may be hope for a sale at a decent price for that set yet..........

I have 2 Secret Invasion sets. So I hope so....

[Bosco685]

On 8/11/2023 at 7:12 PM, Artboy99 said:

Neither chose to do anything because they saw all the way to the end result where things were restored so they did not need to intervene?

It's a thought. For sure.

[fmaz]

On 8/10/2023 at 6:36 PM, Bosco685 said:

I'm not sure if firing Kevin Feige (I doubt that would happen after his billions in box office contributions), but more who Marvel Studios was reacting to when producing properties.

I blame the hardcore fans, that no matter the quality they rushed into the breach to "protect my MCU" seeing these things multiple times so as to pad the results. This led to Marvel Studios only needing to appease that majority, and not listening to the complaints from the industry, critics or even general audiences that started realizing something was off. Even with paperheart, he posted a number of times how the MCU was 'critic proof'. It didn't matter what those folks had to say. Marvel Studios was making these productions for THE FANS. Whomever the heck that is with some of this output.

 

I VERY much agree with the first part of this -- the voices of the hardcore fans being so loud as to somehow drive the bus into a mountain (not sure about the part about fans going multiple time to pad the numbers.. . If there's evidence of it I'll take your word, but honestly I almost think it's irrelevant, since the first part is so important and spot on!)

I spent my whole career working in Division I college athletics - and one of the most sacred truism of athletics is this: once you start listening to the fans? The next thing you know you'll be sitting with them.

That's not to denigrate fans (Hey, I'm a fan of comic book movies!), but the best work is done when creative, talented people execute their vision.  NOTHING will be universally loved, but it makes for interesting work.. it makes for varied work, and that's where you get the best stuff.

After the slog-fest that was Secret Invasion -- which, by the way, had Samuel L. Jackson acting at a level so much higher than that plotless and dead --script deserved... I went back and watched two series in their entirety:

Hawkeye and She-Hulk.

I thoroughly enjoyed both the first time, and did so again on rewatch. I loved the Matt Fraction Hawkeye series, and this series felt like someone took elements of that series and paired it with the MCU in a fun, cohesive way. That felt like what Disney+ is meant to be.

She-Hulk? Yeah, I get there are rushed CG issues...  but I was always a fan of the She-Hulk John Byrne book and subsequent iterations that followed it... and anyone who enjoyed THAT character, saw that brought to life. Now, I can 100% understand people strongly disliking it. She-Hulk never sold as a book. It was a low-stakes book, it was a low-stakes series... So it's not for everyone.  But I'm really glad they made it. I really enjoyed it.

Secret Invasion? There's just no way anyone can answer "why" to that series...  Other than it feels like somehow they were trying to save money and not offend anyone.

There will be a lot of buzz and excitement about the upcoming Daredevil series.  And if it's done like the Netflix series -- with a singular hand behind the wheel -- there will be some people who don't like it, but it won't be boring and generic. God, at least I hope it isn't.

 

Edited August 13, 2023 by fmaz

[Bosco685]

On 8/12/2023 at 10:49 PM, fmaz said:

not sure about the part about fans going multiple time to pad the numbers.. . If there's evidence of it I'll take your word

Social media influencers would encourage fans to create ticket binders so as to bring these to comic book conventions. This way they could present this 'worship token' to the actors to convey their MCU loyalty.

This guy went so many times Don Cheadle posted he should see other movies. But then deleted the post later most probably so as not to offend THE FANS.

Then there was the Captain Marvel guy.

And the Infinity War guy. He kept going, and encouraged others to do the same to beat his record.

And with Endgame, influencers and bloggers went with #BeatAvatar as a campaign to strongly encourage multiple viewings. Because - you know - Disney needed financial protection from - uhmmmmm - Disney now that it owned Avatar?

Meet the Marvel Fans That Helped ‘Endgame’ #BeatAvatar

And then actors got involved in the multi-viewing campaign.

Robert Downey Jr. Rallies ‘Avengers: Endgame’ Fans to Beat James Cameron’s ‘Avatar’ Record

 

But don't take my word on this. Do your own research. You may be surprised the fanatical state of worship some attained on this franchise ride.

Edited August 13, 2023 by Bosco685

[Microchip]

On 8/13/2023 at 7:04 PM, Bosco685 said:

Social media influencers would encourage fans to create ticket binders so as to bring these to comic book conventions. This way they could present this 'worship token' to the actors to convey their MCU loyalty.

This guy went so many times Don Cheadle posted he should see other movies. But then deleted the post later most probably so as not to offend THE FANS.

Then there was the Captain Marvel guy.

And the Infinity War guy. He kept going, and encouraged others to do the same to beat his record.

And with Endgame, influencers and bloggers went with #BeatAvatar as a campaign to strongly encourage multiple viewings. Because - you know - Disney needed financial protection from - uhmmmmm - Disney now that it owned Avatar?

Meet the Marvel Fans That Helped ‘Endgame’ #BeatAvatar

And then actors got involved in the multi-viewing campaign.

Robert Downey Jr. Rallies ‘Avengers: Endgame’ Fans to Beat James Cameron’s ‘Avatar’ Record

 

But don't take my word on this. Do your own research. You may be surprised the fanatical state of worship some attained on this franchise ride.

Sigh... back when MCU movies were good. 

[Bosco685]

On 8/13/2023 at 6:31 PM, Microchip said:

Sigh... back when MCU movies were good. 

Right. When I got done watching Captain America: The Winter Soldier I wanted to rush out and find the original comic books.

Nowadays, I'm left wondering what the heck the influences were.

[Artboy99]

On 8/13/2023 at 5:12 PM, Bosco685 said:

Right. When I got done watching Captain America: The Winter Soldier I wanted to rush out and find the original comic books.

Nowadays, I'm left wondering what the heck the influences were.

Currently they are not influenced by comics and the writers are told to not read the comics. I think it is a huge mistake to not go with the great stories from the comics after all that is why the Infinity saga was so successful.

[fantastic_four]

On 8/13/2023 at 7:29 PM, Artboy99 said:

Currently they are not influenced by comics and the writers are told to not read the comics.

A few days ago you said it was the Secret Invasion showrunner who was told this.  Now it's everyone?  And if they tell everyone, how are the comic references and easter eggs making it into every show?

[Microchip]

On 8/14/2023 at 10:38 AM, fantastic_four said:

A few days ago you said it was the Secret Invasion showrunner who was told this.  Now it's everyone?  And if they tell everyone, how are the comic references and easter eggs making it into every show?

You're worried about the stitching in the saddle, and not whether the horse is even alive and breathing.

They've dropped the ball so badly on a number of projects now, there's no resemblance to the source material, and intern us the fan's, and the results are woeful.

[Cat]

On 8/14/2023 at 10:38 AM, fantastic_four said:

A few days ago you said it was the Secret Invasion showrunner who was told this.  Now it's everyone?  And if they tell everyone, how are the comic references and easter eggs making it into every show?

It's true. I met Kevin Feige and he whispered to me "don't read the comics" and then played around on the rafters like they were monkey bars. Talented fellow.