Has anyone seen a picture of the Blue label 9.2 Detective comics #27 on the census? 1 1

[Chicago Boy]

14 minutes ago, sfcityduck said:

Matro was/is 8.0.

The Allentown is owned by DA and could be best, given what some of the other Allentown's have hit.  The D29 is a 9.6.

I’m going to look into seeing if the Dentist will adopt me. 

[rob_react]

Here's what I wrote about this book four+ years ago:

Quote

The Most Valuable CGC Graded Book

As I've mentioned both here and on the CGC forums, I think the Detective Comics #27 CGC 9.2 is the most valuable CGC graded comic in existence. I've had multiple discussions about this with people and wanted to capture my thoughts here for all to see.

Here's a handy list that captures my thought process surrounding the value of this book and the relative value of the eBay Action #1 CGC 9.0 (which is the only other candidate in my mind.)

1. The only time we've had high-grade copies of both Action #1 and Detective Comics #27 sell in the same grade at around the same time, the Detective #27 won out, selling for $75,000 more than the $1,000,000 Action #1. Even if you discount that result for some reason, in lower grades these books are close to one another grade for grade. They're not in lock-step as Action #1s generally sell for a higher number, but they're close.
2. This book is 1.2 points higher than the next best graded copies of Detective #27 (that same 8.0 that sold for $1,075,000 and the missing Mastronet copy.) The eBay Action #1 is tied at the top with the 9.0 Cage copy and then there's an 8.5 and an 8.0 lurking in the background.
3. If a non-Church Action #1 CGC 9.2 were to appear and if it were valued at a (conservative) $5,000,0000, then a Detective #27 9.2 could be a $4,000,000 book (selling at a big discount grade-for-grade to the Action #1) and still trounce the two Action #1 9.0s (valuing them at, say, $3,000,000 for the Cage copy and $3,500,000 for the eBay copy.) I personally think the spread is closer than that, but even being conservative with the relative values between the two books I'd value the Detective #27 higher than either of the two Action #1 9.0s.
4. This could easily be the second best known copy. The other high-grade copy (the FN68 copy that surfaced in the 1990s) is not necessarily better than 9.2. That's why we've speculated that this CGC 9.2 copy is the FN68 copy coming in from the cold. The FN68 copy is supposed to be nice, but not nicer than the Allentown, so 9.2 is a pretty good guess at the grade. So, even if this isn't that FN68 copy, this CGC 9.2 might still be the second best known copy.
5. Even if you just do simple CGC multiple math (ignoring everything I know about these books) it adds up pretty quickly. Just double the price for Detective Comics #27 from the 6.5 that just sold for $725,000 to get a new value for an 8.0 ($1,450,000.) Double that to get to $2,900,000 for a 9.0 and then if you're afraid to once again double add just 50% to get $4,350,000 for a 9.2. that puts us north of the $3,500,000 I have in my head for the eBay copy. The 2x multiple between 8.0 and 9.0 is precisely what we saw with the Action #1s between 8.0 and 9.0 so that pattern has some precedent.

That's about it. I've obviously spent some time thinking about this, but I do enjoy hearing what everyone else thinks, so
let me know what you think in the comments.

 

[lou_fine]

3 hours ago, rob_react said:

•  
• This could easily be the second best known copy. The other high-grade copy (the FN68 copy that surfaced in the 1990s) is not necessarily better than 9.2. That's why we've speculated that this CGC 9.2 copy is the FN68 copy coming in from the cold. The FN68 copy is supposed to be nice, but not nicer than the Allentown, so 9.2 is a pretty good guess at the grade. So, even if this isn't that FN68 copy, this CGC 9.2 might still be the second best known copy.

Definitely interesting that you think this current CGC 9.2 graded copy could have actually been previously graded as a FN68 based according to the pre-CGC grading standards of the day.  

With such a significant upgrade, are you implying that there was a lot of "non-restorative" enhancement done to the book to get it up to this far superior grade?  I would find it extremely hard to believe that grading standards would have changed this much if it was only a straight resub.    

Edited August 19, 2019 by lou_fine

[lou_fine]

14 hours ago, sagii said:

I'm also of the mind if the best existing TEC27 were the Church copy (unrestored) it could get 5 mill. Can't beat that trifecta for IP recognition,  Provenance and Top graded.

Totally understand that this is nothing more than a "What If" scenario here, especially since the Church books are generally accepted and acknowledged to be "normally" the best there is.  

It's really a case of to each their own though, especailly if you are talking about the Allentown books. Although the Church books in general are indeed often the best copies in existence, this does not seem to be the case in a straight match up with the Allentown copies that are out there.  Clearly evident by the fact that the Allentown copies of 'Tec 27 and Cap 1 are deemed to be far superior to the Church copies.  Similar in vein to the fact that in a match up of the early Fox books where the Allentown copies have already been graded, they have either come out on top or at least equivalent to the Church copy, with the main exception being Tim's Mile High copy of Mystery Men 3.  

In addition, the Allentown books are far more unique and highly sought after since there are only 135 of them in existence, as compared to something like 18,000 to 20,000 Church books out there.  Just take a look at the upcoming CC auction and once again, not a single Allentown copy out of 2,723 lots while there are almost 30 Church books in there.  Take a look at any Heritage Auction where there are usually a large number of Church books, and you'll be lucky to find a single Allentown book in there.  

So, although I am definitely a fan of the Edgar Church Mile High books, I also place a lot of prestige and possibly am even a bigger fan of the much harder to find Allentown books.  

 

Edited August 19, 2019 by lou_fine

[rob_react]

Quote

 

5 hours ago, lou_fine said:

Definitely interesting that you think this current CGC 9.2 graded copy could have actually been previously graded as a FN68 based according to the pre-CGC grading standards of the day.  

With such a significant upgrade, are you implying that there was a lot of "non-restorative" enhancement done to the book to get it up to this far superior grade?  I would find it extremely hard to believe that grading standards would have changed this much if it was only a straight resub.    

This is my write up on the book. I have no answer on the discrepancy

---

The "other" high grade copy of Detective Comics #27

I've had this book pretty definitively quoted as being a 9.*. Interestingly, it was listed as only a FN68 in the 24th edition of the Overstreet Price Guide. I'd love to know why there's such a discrepancy. Still, the people I've talked to about it say it's an extremely nice book and would be the highest graded and best available if it were to come up for sale.

In that same guide it was listed as having sold twice in a year- once for $81,000 then again for $101,000. The latter figure, I believe, makes this the first documented member of the $100,000 Club.

I say "documented", because John Verzyl told me that he spent over $100,000 for the Church Marvel Comics #1 when he purchased it in the 80s (!)

I've placed this book here, just behind the Cage copy of Action #1. This assumes it's a 9.0 copy. As we've seen, if this book were the 9.2 copy it would rank third, alone.

 

 

[Timely]

6 hours ago, lou_fine said:

Totally understand that this is nothing more than a "What If" scenario here, especially since the Church books are generally accepted and acknowledged to be "normally" the best there is.  

It's really a case of to each their own though, especailly if you are talking about the Allentown books. Although the Church books in general are indeed often the best copies in existence, this does not seem to be the case in a straight match up with the Allentown copies that are out there.  Clearly evident by the fact that the Allentown copies of 'Tec 27 and Cap 1 are deemed to be far superior to the Church copies.  Similar in vein to the fact that in a match up of the early Fox books where the Allentown copies have already been graded, they have either come out on top or at least equivalent to the Church copy, with the main exception being Tim's Mile High copy of Mystery Men 3.  

In addition, the Allentown books are far more unique and highly sought after since there are only 135 of them in existence, as compared to something like 18,000 to 20,000 Church books out there.  Just take a look at the upcoming CC auction and once again, not a single Allentown copy out of 2,723 lots while there are almost 30 Church books in there.  Take a look at any Heritage Auction where there are usually a large number of Church books, and you'll be lucky to find a single Allentown book in there.  

So, although I am definitely a fan of the Edgar Church Mile High books, I also place a lot of prestige and possibly am even a bigger fan of the much harder to find Allentown books.  

 

Although Allentown books are rarer due to the small size of the collection, their state of preservation is far below that of a typical Mile High from the same era. Most of the Allentown books are Cream to Off-White or Off-White while most Mile Highs are White or Off-White to White. Out of the 135 Allentowns I'd guess only 10 or so are better than their Mile High counterpart.

[Crowzilla]

3 hours ago, rob_react said:

This is my write up on the book. I have no answer on the discrepancy

---

The "other" high grade copy of Detective Comics #27

Having been co-owner of this book before, I can only say that FN68 is waaaay off. I remember holding it in hand and thinking "Really, there is a nicer copy than this? wow"

Geppi gave Jerry and me a choice of the Church 27 or this copy for the same price, and it wasn't a contest.

[adamstrange]

5 hours ago, Timely said:

Out of the 135 Allentowns I'd guess only 10 or so are better than their Mile High counterpart.

Colors on the Allentowns aren't usually as intense as the Church copies.

[adamstrange]

2 hours ago, Crowzilla said:

Having been co-owner of this book before, I can only say that FN68 is waaaay off. I remember holding it in hand and thinking "Really, there is a nicer copy than this? wow"

Geppi gave Jerry and me a choice of the Church 27 or this copy for the same price, and it wasn't a contest.

If Jerry = "Jerry Jacobs" (Childhood Memories was his store name, iirc), then 9.2 copy is not the FN68. 

The one that Jerry had has not been graded.

 

[Crowzilla]

19 minutes ago, adamstrange said:

If Jerry = "Jerry Jacobs" (Childhood Memories was his store name, iirc), then 9.2 copy is not the FN68. 

The one that Jerry had has not been graded.

 

Yes, Jerry Jacobs. Thanks for clearing up whether it was the same or not.

I remember a few months after the Sotheby's auction, Jerry flew down and we drove over to Alabama to try and talk Harold Anderson into buying the nicer Tec27. He didn't (thankfully, I guess seeing how some of the books he owned ended up faded) but he did buy a nice Cap 1 and some other items we had.

[Gotham Kid]

16 hours ago, rob_react said:

Even if you just do simple CGC multiple math (ignoring everything I know about these books) it adds up pretty quickly. Just double the price for Detective Comics #27 from the 6.5 that just sold for $725,000 to get a new value for an 8.0 ($1,450,000.) Double that to get to $2,900,000 for a 9.0 and then if you're afraid to once again double add just 50% to get $4,350,000 for a 9.2. that puts us north of the $3,500,000 I have in my head for the eBay copy. The 2x multiple between 8.0 and 9.0 is precisely what we saw with the Action #1s between 8.0 and 9.0 so that pattern has some precedent. 

I don't think things would be so linear in an auction ...

Edited August 19, 2019 by Gotham Kid

[rob_react]

8 minutes ago, Gotham Kid said:

I don't think things would be so linear ...

There is no actual answer for pricing these things, so I do my best with the data I have. 

[Gotham Kid]

9 minutes ago, rob_react said:

19 minutes ago, Gotham Kid said:

I don't think things would be so linear ...

There is no actual answer for pricing these things, so I do my best with the data I have. 

Indeed Rob. Here's hoping we see the day the 9.2 does go to auction.

[sfcityduck]

On 8/16/2019 at 12:55 PM, entalmighty1 said:

You have to keep things in perspective.  A whole bunch of these big books haven't changed hands for decades sometimes.  Also, a lot of the guys I consider to have the mega collections have been building their hoard for 35 years or more, before prices really went berserk. 

I've only been pursuing GA for 3 or 4 years, and there's zero chance I would be able to afford my collection at today's prices.

Only seven comics have topped a $1,000,000 sales figure at auction.  And, of those, two at least were bought by Hariri (who has a D27 in a fortress).  He also bought the AS 8 which is only one of three comics to land in the $900K zone.  And he may not be an active buyer at this point.  So its a pretty shallow pool of buyers, maybe down to three or four active buyers. 

[Buzzetta]

On 8/16/2019 at 3:55 PM, entalmighty1 said:

You have to keep things in perspective.  A whole bunch of these big books haven't changed hands for decades sometimes.  Also, a lot of the guys I consider to have the mega collections have been building their hoard for 35 years or more, before prices really went berserk. 

I've only been pursuing GA for 3 or 4 years, and there's zero chance I would be able to afford my collection at today's prices.

Same here... I started buying GA around 2011? 2012?  I could not afford to buy what I have already purchased at today's prices... or at least not all of it. 

[Gotham Kid]

27 minutes ago, sfcityduck said:

He also bought the AS 8 which is only one of three comics to land in the $900K zone.

No he did not. Both the AS8 9.4 and Sensation1 9.6 reside in NM.

 

Edited August 19, 2019 by Gotham Kid

[Gotham Kid]

30 minutes ago, sfcityduck said:

Hariri (who has a D27 in a fortress)

It is a mid grade copy I believe. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. He wants the best of the best more with Superman (Action).

[sfcityduck]

14 minutes ago, Gotham Kid said:

No he did not. Both the AS8 9.4 and Sensation1 9.6 reside in NM.

 

My mistake.  I was thinking of this picture:

 

[Gotham Kid]

Just now, sfcityduck said:

My mistake.  I was thinking of this picture:

 

I was thinking of this one ...

https://www.ageofcomics.store/

[sfcityduck]

1 minute ago, Gotham Kid said:

I was thinking of this one ...

https://www.ageofcomics.store/

Where's the WW 1 Solicitation Copy and ashcan?  They should be next to those two!