Real Stan Lee, but fake Kirby? 0

[kav]

On 5/30/2022 at 5:12 PM, wisbyron said:

That's more tragic then that you know about that but don't know about comics history on a... you know, comics board. 

there's a tragedy here but it's not what you think.

[lordbyroncomics]

On 5/30/2022 at 8:12 PM, kav said:

If wisbyron asks me if I've ever heard of Neal Adams I'm gonna lose it-

I won't do that; I'd hate to get beat up by a guy with Deadpool statues in his living room!

In all seriousness, I'd never ask you that. For one thing it has nothing to do with what we're talking about and I've only said things in regards to specific statements about this specific subject! 

[kav]

On 5/30/2022 at 5:14 PM, wisbyron said:

I won't do that; I'd hate to get beat up by a guy with Deadpool statues in his living room!

In all seriousness, I'd never ask you that. For one thing it has nothing to do with what we're talking about and I've only said things in regards to specific statements about this specific subject! 

If I say youre probably right about kirby will you retract the deadpool comment?  I HATE DEADFOOL!!  

[lordbyroncomics]

On 5/30/2022 at 8:13 PM, kav said:

there's a tragedy here but it's not what you think.

There are no tragedies here in the slightest. Grown men talking about comics publishing is what it is. If you can dish it out, you can take it and I can take it. We're just going over s**t about comic books at our age. I'm happy to have these discussions in person too and it's a luxury to talk about these things; life could always be worse. I still stand by what I say, but I have no pretentious illusions this is heavy, serious sh*t when people on a message board get tense with each other. I ain't tense. I might disagree and I may be baffled at the willingness of people to engage in subjects they seemingly don't know much about, but it's not the end of the world, I am happy to discuss stuff about comics just like the rest of you. 

 

Edited May 31, 2022 by wisbyron
grammar

[Namtak]

On 5/30/2022 at 8:12 PM, kav said:

If wisbyron asks me if I've ever heard of Neal Adams I'm gonna lose it-

[lordbyroncomics]

On 5/30/2022 at 8:15 PM, kav said:

If I say youre probably right about kirby will you retract the deadpool comment?  I HATE DEADFOOL!!  

You don't have to say I'm right, especially if you don't think I am. I retract the deadpool comment! I hate that character too, so we agree on something!

[lordbyroncomics]

On 5/30/2022 at 8:17 PM, Namtak said:

I swear I've seen a male figure skater do that same exact stance during a performance

 

don't ask me why I was watching figure skating

[kav]

On 5/30/2022 at 5:17 PM, wisbyron said:

There are no tragedies here in the slightest. Grown men talking about comics publishing is what it is. If you can dish it out, you can take it and I can take it. We're just going over s**t about comic books at our age. I'm happy to have these discussions in person to and it's a luxury to talk about these things; life could always be worse. I still stand by what I say, but I have no pretentious illusions this is heavy, serious sh*t when people on a message board get tense with each other. I ain't tense. I might disagree and I may be baffled at the willingness of people to engage in subjects they seemingly don't know much about, but it's not the end of the world. 

speaking of dishing it out I made an incredible lasagna the other day.  I like hot sauce on my lasagna and pepper plant hot sauce is the best!

[Namtak]

On 5/30/2022 at 8:18 PM, wisbyron said:

You don't have to say I'm right, especially if you don't think I am. I retract the deadpool comment! I hate that character too, so we agree on something!

he likes chimichangas!!

[kav]

On 5/30/2022 at 5:18 PM, wisbyron said:

You don't have to say I'm right, especially if you don't think I am. I retract the deadpool comment! I hate that character too, so we agree on something!

I am probably wrong about kirby to be honest.  I was mostly playing devils' advocate but you have the stronger argument.  And I'm not going to accuse you of 'making the weaker argument appear the stronger', like they said when they killed socrates.

[lordbyroncomics]

On 5/30/2022 at 8:21 PM, kav said:

I am probably wrong about kirby to be honest.  I was mostly playing devils' advocate but you have the stronger argument.  And I'm not going to accuse you of 'making the weaker argument appear the stronger', like they said when they killed socrates.

Thank you Sir and I am not trying to have the stronger argument per se (and I respect your awareness of considering you may be wrong, which is also my guiding principle in my overall philosophy), I'm just- the things said don't add up to the years and years of involvement and experience and research I've had in said subjects, so of course I'm going to respond. But like I said a few posts back, however it comes off I don't take this personally, we're all just comic guys talking about comics and my issues are that it's new fans to the medium that are misled and *that* is dangerous.

Edited May 31, 2022 by wisbyron

[kav]

On 5/30/2022 at 5:24 PM, wisbyron said:

Thank you Sir and I am not trying to have the stronger argument per se (and I respect your awareness of considering you may be wrong, which is also my guiding principle in my overall philosophy), I'm just- the things said don't add up to the years and years of involvement and experience and research I've had in said subjects, so of course I'm going to respond. But like I said a few posts back, however it comes off I don't take this personally, we're all just comic guys talking about comics and my issues are that it's new fans to the medium that are misled and *that* is dangerous.

you are a gentleman and a scholar.  Honestly I do believe Marvel would have been nothing without kirby and most probably have soon folded.  

[Prince Namor]

On 5/30/2022 at 7:45 PM, shadroch said:

I suppose you think one author wrote all the Lone Ranger novels? How about the Hardy Boys? Either F.W. Dixon is a vampire or someone else took over for him since he has been knocking them out since the 1920s.  Does anyone think Don Pendleton knocked off almost two hundred Mac Bolan novels in fifteen years? 

Did Hal Foster really draw forty plus years of Prince Valiant?

Did Stan own the Spider-Man strip?  If Roy Thomas wrote it all those years, and if he says he did I believe him, he agreed to be a ghost writer. He got paid for it. It's quite possible that the syndicates wouldn't have published the strip without the Stan Lee byline.

The fact you think ghost writing in the fiction world is bad is laughable.

It’s not the 1950’s anymore. 
 

In todays world it is considered unethical and illegal. 

[kav]

On 5/30/2022 at 5:28 PM, Prince Namor said:

It’s not the 1950’s anymore. 
 

In todays world it is considered unethical and illegal. 

wait a minute I have a friend who makes a living ghost writing-are you saying she is committing crimes??
@jaybuck43

Edited May 31, 2022 by kav

[jaybuck43]

On 5/30/2022 at 8:28 PM, Prince Namor said:

It’s not the 1950’s anymore. 
 

In todays world it is considered unethical and illegal. 

Tom Clancy built a gigantic estate off of putting his name on other peoples work. Same as James Patterson. Lots of authors have deals where they slap their name on someone elses work and they split proceeds. Using ghostwrited has never been illegal and isn’t unethical. 

[shadroch]

On 5/30/2022 at 5:28 PM, Prince Namor said:

It’s not the 1950’s anymore. 
 

In todays world it is considered unethical and illegal. 

Utter nonsense.  You throw around words like fraud and illegal far too lightly.  I'm not sure how ethical it is, but it is absolutely legal in the enertainment world. 

[shadroch]

On 5/30/2022 at 5:25 PM, kav said:

you are a gentleman and a scholar.  Honestly I do believe Marvel would have been nothing without kirby and most probably have soon folded.  

Or....

Goodman folds his comic division, gives good old cousin in law Stan a job in middle management elsewhere and continues jumping on trends.  Flash forward a few years and his fellow publisher is bragging about his hot new property and bulbs go off in Marty's head.  He, Cousin Stan and Stan Goldberg  brain storm and reach out to unemployed comic great Wally Wood......

[Bird]

Dear Abby is Abigail Van Buren, but she's been dead for years. Who's answering the letters?

[kav]

On 5/30/2022 at 6:40 PM, Bird said:

Dear Abby is Abigail Van Buren, but she's been dead for years. Who's answering the letters?

I dont know but I imagine the cops are gearing up-

[lordbyroncomics]

On 5/30/2022 at 9:14 PM, shadroch said:

Or....

Goodman folds his comic division, gives good old cousin in law Stan a job in middle management elsewhere and continues jumping on trends.  Flash forward a few years and his fellow publisher is bragging about his hot new property and bulbs go off in Marty's head.  He, Cousin Stan and Stan Goldberg  brain storm and reach out to unemployed comic great Wally Wood......

Ger Aperdorn did a comprehensive essay about Stan's attempts to break out of comics and each time how it ended in failure. Much of that is not Stan's fault and more the publishing industry of the late fifties/early sixties but it's evident that Stan was dependent on Martin Goodman for stability and to maintain the way of life he was accustomed to.

The "fellow publisher bragging about his hot new property" isn't guaranteed since there's documentation that Martin Goodman playing golf with National's publisher is a myth or urban legend so this might not have happened. Stan Goldberg jumped to Archie even when Marvel was doing well so I don't see why he wouldn't have in your what if scenario here. And Wally Wood's opinion on Stan taking the writer's pay from the artist after the artist essentially wrote the story is well documented so we can imagine Wood's response to this hypothetical reaching out. When Wally Wood demanded credit for writing Stan passive-aggressively knocked him in the letters pages and insulted him; similar to how he treated Ditko except, in Ditko's case, when he demanded plotting credit Stan literally stopped talking to him. Why? Because Stan could no longer also collect the writer's pay so Ditko had hurt his finances. 

We don't need to speculate though because the actual history is so misrepresented by people with agendas.