Zack Snyder's JUSTICE LEAGUE on HBO Max (2021) 1 1

[Bosco685]

WB is the one setting up the investigation - not WarnerMedia as had been assumed.

[Bosco685]

[bpc3qh]

I mean, we're just trusting Fisher on that? He says he's "vetting" the investigator for, what? Willingness to go along with his story? I understand wanting someone to be fair, but Fisher hasn't exactly given us reasons to believe him so far. This whole thing is a giant cluster. Nobody has handled it well--not Fisher, not WB (obviously), not anyone.

[Bosco685]

9 minutes ago, bpc3qh said:

I mean, we're just trusting Fisher on that? He says he's "vetting" the investigator for, what? Willingness to go along with his story? I understand wanting someone to be fair, but Fisher hasn't exactly given us reasons to believe him so far. This whole thing is a giant cluster. Nobody has handled it well--not Fisher, not WB (obviously), not anyone.

If someone is complaining to the parent company (WarnerMedia) about the child company (WB Studios) and their treatment of cast and crew during a film, are we supposed to assume the parent company handing it off to the child company was all well and fair?

And it wasn't just Fischer that has noted mistreatment on the set. The body double for Gal Gadot was told to do the 'boy accidentally lands on the grown woman's boobs' scene or her career would be done.

[bpc3qh]

2 hours ago, Bosco685 said:

And it wasn't just Fischer that has noted mistreatment on the set. The body double for Gal Gadot was told to do the 'boy accidentally lands on the grown woman's boobs' scene or her career would be done.

Is that also being investigated in the same complaint? If so, Fisher is doubly doing a disservice, b/c his behavior makes it less likely the truth gets out about those (reprehensible if true) allegations.

[thunsicker]

4 hours ago, bpc3qh said:

Is that also being investigated in the same complaint? If so, Fisher is doubly doing a disservice, b/c his behavior makes it less likely the truth gets out about those (reprehensible if true) allegations.

Did I miss where it was said what the allegations that Fischer is making are?

EDIT:  Ok did a little digging.  From a deadline story.  Is this what he is complaining about?

Quote

In their July conversation, Mr. Fisher recounted disagreements he’d had with the film’s creative team regarding his portrayal of Cyborg, and complained that his suggested --script revisions were not adopted.

EDIT II:  Ok apparently that's what WB says Ray told them, but he says he hasn't told them his accusations yet.  Confusing.

Edited September 6, 2020 by thunsicker

[Bosco685]

12 hours ago, bpc3qh said:

Is that also being investigated in the same complaint? If so, Fisher is doubly doing a disservice, b/c his behavior makes it less likely the truth gets out about those (reprehensible if true) allegations.

Knowing you have shared repeatedly how much you dislike Zack Snyder (and most probably any of his Snyder-supportive actors) be careful that bias doesn't cloud reasonable thinking.

You asked if we should trust Fisher over WarnerMedia. Fisher clarified the parent company handed off the investigation to the sub-company the complaint is concerning. You can't get more compromised than that. Other than Joss Whedon being the investigator.

Edited September 6, 2020 by Bosco685

[Bosco685]

8 hours ago, thunsicker said:

Did I miss where it was said what the allegations that Fischer is making are?

EDIT:  Ok did a little digging.  From a deadline story.  Is this what he is complaining about?

EDIT II:  Ok apparently that's what WB says Ray told them, but he says he hasn't told them his accusations yet.  Confusing.

Actually, Ray Fisher has shared some of what took place. Along with Gal Gadot's body double supporting what he shared so far.

Justice League: Why Cyborg Actor Ray Fisher Called Out Joss Whedon Abuse

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Cyborg actor Ray Fisher has called out Joss Whedon for his abusive behavior during the Justice League reshoots - here's why. In the years since it opened theatrically in November 2017, the DCEU's big crossover has become (easily) one of the most infamous blockbusters in recent memory. It was already a project tinged with tragedy, with Man of Steel and Batman V Superman director Zack Snyder stepping down during post-production following the death of his daughter Autumn. Whedon subsequently replaced him at the helm for the film's reshoots, despite being credited as a co-writer only.

 

Fisher Claims Whedon Was Abusive On Set

In his second tweet, Fisher claimed Whedon's "on-set treatment of the cast and crew of Justice League was gross, abusive, unprofessional, and completely unacceptable," and was enabled by then-DC Entertainment CCO Geoff Johns and producer Jon Berg. The actor has yet to specify the type of abusive behavior Whedon engaged in, so it could be anything from verbal and psychological to emotional, physical, or even sexual in nature.

 

This isn't the first time Whedon's been accused of abusing the power of his position, either. In August 2017, his ex-wife Kai Cole published an essay accusing Whedon of hiding (and later confessing to her) extramarital affairs while running Buffy the Vampire Slayer and throughout their 21-year marriage, in addition to "inappropriate emotional" relationships with "co-workers, fans and friends." 

 

Joss Whedon Is a ‘Hypocrite Preaching Feminist Ideals,’ Ex-Wife Kai Cole Says (Guest Blog)

 

In a broader sense, Whedon has also been criticized for using his image as a self-proclaimed feminist to shield himself from critiques when it comes to his treatment of women, both on and off-screen. For example, his sequel Avengers: Age of Ultron was criticized for its clunky handling of infertility and pregnancy in a subplot involving Black Widow's history, and his work on shows like Firefly and Buffy has been similarly taken to take for their equally clumsy use of rape as a storytelling device. Most notoriously, on the Buffy spinoff Angel, Whedon butted heads with costar Charisma Carpenter when she became pregnant ahead of the start of season 4, resulting in changes to her character's storyline that ultimately led to her being written off the series entirely in season 5. Fisher even referred to these issues directly in a later tweet, saying "I believe Kai Cole and Charisma Carpenter."

 

 

Whedon's Rewrites Hurt Cyborg The Most

When it comes to Whedon's treatment of Fisher, the proof might be in the pudding. In an interview with The Black Cape Magazine in June, Fisher revealed he'd met with Snyder and Terrio to discuss Justice League's portrayal of Victor Stone aka. Cyborg and his family before the Justice League -script had even been written. According to the actor:

 

"We were able to talk about framing up this prominent Black comic book family and my perspective as a Black man if I’d been watching this thing. Any questions, thoughts, or concerns that I may have had about framing or where we may be going or how it may be perceived, Chris and Zack met those things with open arms and an open mind."

 

Prior to the Justice League reshoots, Snyder similarly described Cyborg as "the heart of the movie."

 

Justice League: Cyborg's Story is the 'Heart' of the Movie (March 2017)

 

You can see traces of the character's original arc in the film's theatrical cut; he loses his family, find a new one in the Justice League, and is the key to saving the world, being the only one who can stop Steppenwolf from forming the unity with the three Mother Boxes. At the end of the day, most of his backstory and the more dramatic elements of his plot thread (including, the death of his father) were stripped away from the film after Whedon's reshoots, resulting in a pretty flat portrayal of Cyborg. From a storytelling perspective, these changes come off as being disrespectful to not only Cyborg as a character, but also Fisher, Terrio, and Snyder's efforts to ensure Victor Stone wasn't a Black male stereotype.

 

Fisher talked about this in the same interview with TBCM, saying he didn't want Cyborg to be "relegated to being the catchphrase spitting ‘cool Black dude’. That’s not anything that I’m interested in watching. It’s definitely not anything I’m interested in portraying." Tellingly, in response to Fisher's comments about Whedon, Berg called them "categorically untrue" before claiming "I remember him being upset that we wanted him to say ‘Booyaa,’ which is a well known saying of Cyborg in the animated series." To many, this response has come across as curt and dismissive at best, and mostly seems to confirm Fisher's claim Whedon, Berg, and Johns were unprofessional in the way they overrode his concerns in favor of including that bit of fan-service (a moment that comes out of nowhere in the film anyway), on top of the other changes they made.

So when the response to the Fisher concerns was it came down to his character yelling out 'Booyaa' as the chief issue, it demonstrates how dismissive the film leadership team was being to the real points made by Fisher and others. He's just been the loudest voice thus far in noting what occurred on the set. Though it came out during this time about Gal Gadot's body double treatment.

Gal Gadot REFUSED a sexualised Wonder Woman scene in Justice League but Joss Whedon did it with a body double?

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Reporter Grace Randolph added to the allegations and said that Wonder Woman actor Gal Gadot refused to shoot a comedic scene in which The Flash lands on her body, and Whedon persisted by bringing in a body double to shoot the scene instead. “I doubt we’ll ever get specifics from Ray Fisher re Joss Whedon, but here’s one I was the first to report: Gal Gadot didn’t want to film this scene, so Whedon did it w/ a stunt double. That’s why you can’t see her face,” Randolph wrote.

 

 

Photographer Jason Laboy, who worked with Fisher, added to the tweet to highlight that Whedon threatened her career. “Don’t forget to add that he locked her in a room and threatened her career if she didn’t do the scene. That is very important and should not be omitted," his tweet claimed. 

This is REALLY bad. Like beyond a normal studio toxic environment.

[Bosco685]

Quote

Ray Fisher is speaking out about treatment of Justice League's cast and crew during reshoots. WB has responded, and Ray fired back, what's going on?

 

Ray Fisher's Full Justice League Reshoot Allegations

Fisher's first tweet on the subject accused Whedon of being gross, "abusive, unprofessional, and completely unacceptable" to the cast and crew on-set during production. While this is unfortunate and certainly problematic, it doesn't seem like something inherently actionable in an industry famous for on-set issues - although the contrast to Snyder's notoriously good working conditions is immediately apparent. The tweet goes on, though, to allege producers Geoff Johns and John Berg (the former of whom was president of DC Entertainment at the time) enabled Whedon's behavior in many ways. This adds another layer to the complaint, as it would be their job to keep Whedon accountable, so to go as far as enabling that behavior makes the circumstances more of a concern.

 

Fisher would continue the allegations on Twitter, showing support for Kai Cole, Charisma Carpenter, Jeff Pruitt, and Sophia Crawford who have all accused Whedon of similar behavior in the past. He also revealed during his panel at Justice Con in late July that he'd been building a case for two and a half years, and openly challenged Whedon, saying "We’re gonna get to the heart of everything. And if anything I said about that man is untrue, I invite him wholeheartedly to sue me for libel, to sue me for slander.”

 

On August 12th, Fisher again took to Twitter to reveal that during reshoots he attempted to take his concerns up the proper chain of command, earning a call to Geoff Johns office where he says Johns belittled him and "made a thinly veiled threat to my career" which, if Fisher's interpretation of the situation is accurate, could be considered workplace retaliation, a criminal act in California. A week later, Fisher also tweeted "Geoff Johns, Joss Whedon, Jon Berg (and others) grossly abused their power during the uncertainty of AT&T’s merger with Time Warner."

 

Fisher's newest tweet escalated matters again, putting the president of DC Films (currently Walter Hamada) in his crosshairs, saying he "attempted to throw Joss Whedon and Jon Berg under the bus in hopes that I would relent on Geoff Johns."

 

Fisher has been light on details behind these claims, saying his NDA prevents him from speaking openly about the full story but there are a number of accusations (with more implied to be unsaid) that rise above the level of him simply being upset about tough working conditions, although that's the way WB is trying to characterize the circumstances with their statement.

 

Why Ray Fisher Didn't Work With Investigators Or Provide Evidence

Considering the bad optics the situation already has, with Snyder being pushed out of the director's chair in the wake of his daughter's death, massive reshoots to change the plot and tone of Justice League (amid numerous statements from executives saying the plot and tone weren't being changed), the refusal to delay the movie so some executives could get their bonuses, and even the tangentially related departure of Kevin Tsujihara and Brett Ratner under a cloud of controversy, it's not unreasonable to demand an investigation get to the bottom of everything that happened. And allowing such an investigation to be subject to review by the WB legal department, under the authority of some of the very people who are being investigated would be like letting the fox guard the hen house.

 

Ray Fisher is certainly making a lot of noise, but by all indications, it's merely because that's what's necessary to get the attention he needs to get a proper investigation underway. Whether Warner Bros. did no wrong, or some great scandal has yet to be unearthed, the only way to close the book on the insanity of the story that is Justice League is to conduct a real investigation and get to the bottom of everything that happened (or didn't happen).

Brand new article on the topic that while summarizing the situation dropped in a key contributor which came out over time about WB president Toby Emmerich and CEO Kevin Tsujihara.

Why Warner Bros. Reportedly Didn't Delay Justice League Release Date

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According to a report in The Wrap, WB president Toby Emmerich and CEO Kevin Tsujihara were motivated to "preserve their bonuses" that were to be paid out prior to Time Warner's impending merger with AT&T. If Justice League was delayed, those bonuses would be pushed back to 2018, and "they might not still be at the studio."

 

[Shoomanfoo]

This movie was butchered and anybody that thinks the bureaucracy at WB cared about the final product or the treatment of the actors is bat mess crazy.

They just wanted there last big payoff before the acquisition.

If you defend this...your part of the problem.

Then again it’s a free country so to each there own.

[Bosco685]

Oh boy! #BORGLIFE

[Bosco685]

21 hours ago, Shoomanfoo said:

This movie was butchered and anybody that thinks the bureaucracy at WB cared about the final product or the treatment of the actors is bat mess crazy.

They just wanted there last big payoff before the acquisition.

If you defend this...your part of the problem.

Then again it’s a free country so to each there own.

I think you are meaning the horrible behavior of the studio executives was the biggest problem here leading to disgusting behavior. If so - agreed!

Caitlin Burles, Gal Gadot's body double in Justice League, is the worker supposedly threatened to do the 'boy falls on boobs' scene so it wouldn't impact her career otherwise. When she saw Ray Fisher changed his mind on supporting Joss Whedon, she also followed up with support for this statement.

[Bosco685]

On  a positive note, she shared some behind-the-scenes shots afterwards about her time on the film.

She also worked on Wonder Woman as an extra.

[Callaway29]

I’m not jumping to any conclusions...I need more info to make a judgement. 

[Bosco685]

1 hour ago, Callaway29 said:

I’m not jumping to any conclusions...I need more info to make a judgement. 

Definitely. For everyone. But to dismiss what these people hint to in advance (including some on social media demanding all the details be delivered RIGHT NOW like a weekly show cliffhanger) fail to recognize you are dealing with a massive powerhouse when taking on a studio. So not surprised they didn't just jump out there and fall on their swords.

[Bosco685]

And now Jason Momoa steps into the ring.

[theCapraAegagrus]

14 hours ago, Callaway29 said:

I’m not jumping to any conclusions...I need more info to make a judgement. 

As a big Snyder fan, and someone who likes Fisher as Cyborg, I definitely agree.

Trying to be as impartial as I can, it's best to wait for the proper investigation to occur. It's clear that WB is trying to 'sweep this under the rug' in a sense, and Ray isn't publicly releasing the fine details of the situation. So it's impossible to gauge who is 'right'.

I'm apprehensively on Fisher's side, based on the history of WB's meddling/defenses, but the investigation better lead to credible results.

[Bosco685]

1 hour ago, theCapraAegagrus said:

As a big Snyder fan, and someone who likes Fisher as Cyborg, I definitely agree.

Trying to be as impartial as I can, it's best to wait for the proper investigation to occur. It's clear that WB is trying to 'sweep this under the rug' in a sense, and Ray isn't publicly releasing the fine details of the situation. So it's impossible to gauge who is 'right'.

I'm apprehensively on Fisher's side, based on the history of WB's meddling/defenses, but the investigation better lead to credible results.

That's the thing not in WB Studios's favor - its track record. But the pressure will be on Ray Fisher and anyone else drive these points home any facts they can bring to bear.

But having read at least the light details Ray Fisher, the photographer that works with Clay Enos and then the hints about Gal Gadot's body double - it ain't looking good for certain WB leads.

[Bosco685]

 

[Bosco685]

Justice League Director's Cut