The Distribution of US Published Comics in the UK (1959~1982) 15 15

[Get Marwood & I]

On 1/31/2022 at 12:30 PM, jeffreyk said:

Thanks.  CGCs stance on treating tjem as distrbution stamps witg no effect on the grade makes sense as they are US printed books that just got distributed in the UK.

So the rumour goes, yes 

[jeffreyk]

On 1/31/2022 at 7:52 AM, Get Marwood & I said:

So the rumour goes, yes 

Thanks!  At least I know my book is worth in the ballpark of an unstamped copy.  A little less for sure but not too much!

[Malacoda]

On 1/31/2022 at 11:49 AM, Get Marwood & I said:

As I said before, this stuff is too good to be buried away in a thread on a board like this. I'd strongly consider trying to get something published somewhere - whether it be an article, a blog or a book of some sort.

Thank you. I'm not sure there's enough interest for that.  I mean people who are interested are very interested, but the number of those people is tiny.  It still amazes me that really knowledgeable people, industry professionals, don't seem to know this stuff.  When I started this, I thought it was going to be a question of just finding the people who knew and asking them, but it quickly became obvious that there were no people who knew.  Surely that indicates that pretty much no one cares? 

That said, I do think that the way I've gone about it throws up a lot of other interesting information, context and connections, so it may have a home purely because it switches all the lights on. 

[Get Marwood & I]

On 1/31/2022 at 5:03 PM, Malacoda said:

Thank you. I'm not sure there's enough interest for that.  I mean people who are interested are very interested, but the number of those people is tiny.  It still amazes me that really knowledgeable people, industry professionals, don't seem to know this stuff.  When I started this, I thought it was going to be a question of just finding the people who knew and asking them, but it quickly became obvious that there were no people who knew.  Surely that indicates that pretty much no one cares? 

I think it just wasn't significant to anyone at the time, Rich. Who remembers the day to day mechanics of their jobs 50/60 years later, especially when those mechanics were of no significance, relating as they did to the selling of 'kids comics'? Add to that the fact the they're all probably dead now anyway. 

Also, very - very few people in the industry get excited by the overseas aspects of their home-grown comics, more's the pity.

[OtherEric]

Thank you, @Malacoda.  Fascinating reading and impressive research.

[Malacoda]

On 1/31/2022 at 11:23 AM, Get Marwood & I said:

I asked CGC how they treat books with UK price stamps and they said.....

I agree that most buyers would avoid a UK stamped copy if they could.

 

That's a really cool little thread with a single but absolutely key piece of information. Amazing that CGC don't downgrade in any way for ink stamps.  I stand corrected. That means if there's a blob or line of pen ink on the cover, they will take it into account,  but if there's a bloody great T&P splat right on Spider Man's face, they won't?  I remain convinced that a buyer, especially a US buyer, would not take that position, so it's kind of weird that CGC are at odds with the market.

It's also fascinating from the point of view that it creates a massive, I mean really MASSIVE, divide between the inkstamped copies UK copies and the 'penny dreadfuls'. 

It means, for example, that if you have an inkstamped Marvel comic from that 69-71 period rather than a PV, it's worth astronomically more.

Please don't post 'astrocomically'  - we're better than that.  

 

Edited January 31, 2022 by Malacoda

[Malacoda]

On 1/31/2022 at 5:07 PM, Get Marwood & I said:

Also, very - very few people in the industry get excited by the overseas aspects of their home-grown comics, more's the pity.

I fully agree, and I wouldn't expect any American industry professionals to care about it (or indeed US collectors - our mutual friend is a rare exception), but I'm talking about people who run UK comic shops, who do this for a living, who have written articles on similar topics.  Whilst it's possible to do most jobs without giving a toss about the end product (haven't we all?) I don't think that applies to selling comics.  I've also never met a comic-seller who wasn't into the minutiae, it's a real devil's-in-the-detail kind of profession, isn't it?  If you're not going to check for rare price variants or unique details, you're definitely in the wrong job, right?

[Malacoda]

On 1/31/2022 at 5:13 PM, OtherEric said:

Thank you, @Malacoda.  Fascinating reading and impressive research.

Thanks Eric. Positive feedback from seasoned collectors is really heartening and energising.

[Malacoda]

On 1/31/2022 at 11:49 AM, Get Marwood & I said:

I will try to work through it all in more detail at a later time to see if I can add anything or, which I know you would appreciate, challenge any of it.

Yes, please do. I mean, for a start, I think anyone would be hard pushed to challenge that the price increases / hiatuses were caused by the import tax (64) and devaluation (67), but it's impossible to establish any causal link that the 67 hiatus lasted 17 months because of the cutover from ECP to WCP....but given that it was a massive change to the printing itself, how perfectly the dates line up and how clearly sensible it was not to resume PV's at that point,  I will be really impressed if someone pops up with a more likely theory. 

[OtherEric]

On 1/31/2022 at 9:32 AM, Malacoda said:

 If you're not going to check for rare price variants or unique details, you're definitely in the wrong job, right?

These days, definitely.  Although it amazes me just how many little details like that are still out there to be discovered; a few years ago I got home from Emerald City Comic Con and realized I had not one but two previously undocumented variants on silver age books (World's Finest 96 and Help! 12).

The quest to learn more about the history of our hobby will never end.

[Get Marwood & I]

On 1/31/2022 at 5:32 PM, Malacoda said:

I fully agree, and I wouldn't expect any American industry professionals to care about it (or indeed US collectors - our mutual friend is a rare exception), but I'm talking about people who run UK comic shops, who do this for a living, who have written articles on similar topics.  Whilst it's possible to do most jobs without giving a toss about the end product (haven't we all?) I don't think that applies to selling comics.  I've also never met a comic-seller who wasn't into the minutiae, it's a real devil's-in-the-detail kind of profession, isn't it?  If you're not going to check for rare price variants or unique details, you're definitely in the wrong job, right?

It takes a lot of time and effort to work these things through though - few have the patience and commitment for it. I know very few UK dealers who have that level of interest in the hobby. 

On 1/31/2022 at 5:54 PM, OtherEric said:

These days, definitely.  Although it amazes me just how many little details like that are still out there to be discovered; a few years ago I got home from Emerald City Comic Con and realized I had not one but two previously undocumented variants on silver age books (World's Finest 96 and Help! 12).

The quest to learn more about the history of our hobby will never end.

Case in point here (more potential UK distribution related fun):

 

 

[Albert Tatlock]

On 1/31/2022 at 3:35 AM, Malacoda said:

The end.

Unless someone knows better.

The original Dracula novel ended with the complete and utter destruction of the titular Count, so he was never seen or heard from again, right?

There is always, always a sequel. The market demands it.

[Malacoda]

On 1/31/2022 at 10:48 PM, Albert Tatlock said:

Unless someone knows better.

The original Dracula novel ended with the complete and utter destruction of the titular Count, so he was never seen or heard from again, right?

There is always, always a sequel. The market demands it.

Well, hats off to you for ploughing through that lot and still wanting more. 

One of my favourite factoids:  the reason that the CCA allowed Drac, vampires, Frankenstein, the mummy, etc was because those all had literary antecedents. And that's why zombies remained banned, because they didn't and were therefore somehow less 'respectable'.  Quite how you say a vampire is more respectable than a zombie and keep a straight face I don't know. 

[Malacoda]

Just noticed that the wikipedia entry for X men uses a PV as its example no 1.   Cool.  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncanny_X-Men

[Get Marwood & I]

On 2/1/2022 at 1:13 AM, Malacoda said:

Just noticed that the wikipedia entry for X men uses a PV as its example no 1.   Cool.  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncanny_X-Men

There's another version? 

[Albert Tatlock]

On 2/1/2022 at 1:11 AM, Malacoda said:

Well, hats off to you for ploughing through that lot and still wanting more. 

Still on the list of unsolved mysteries is the reason why the late 1960 Atlas/Marvel issues were ND.

[Malacoda]

On 2/1/2022 at 11:36 AM, Albert Tatlock said:

Still on the list of unsolved mysteries is the reason why the late 1960 Atlas/Marvel issues were ND.

Indeed. I suspect the question might be the wrong way round. It might be that when the flood gates opened, they flirted with everyone - literally every US comic publisher - in the first couple of years.  I think the way to solve it - and I know Steve has collected all this data but has never laid it out in a single table in this format - is to look at all the publishers in each month together. If there is a lot of chaos in 59/60 (and let's bear in mind that all the publishers were flirting with Miller as well) then I suspect that the Timely PV's in the summer of 1960 were part of everyone chucking their car keys in a bowl.  

I think that T&P signed a formal deal with Timely (or Atlas or Marvel or the Ace Tomato Company) in Jan 1961. Hence the supply starts getting better and the month disappears off the covers from April (3 month gap).  

Worth keeping in mind that Marvel in 1960 is one full time employee at one desk, with Kirby & other freelancers dropping their pages off and Stan Goldberg coming in a couple of afternoons a week to help with production and paste ups. There is no “Atlas Comics” at this point. Just Stan. All the back office & operations stuff is done by the Magazine Management team. Post-Wertham, several comics publishers have got out of the business and everyone is baffled that Martin Goodman is not one of them.

I suspect that the only reason that their PV printing was so good was that IND were handling their distribution and ECP were doing the printing, so it was out of their hands. I think if it had been something that required some attention from Madison Avenue, it wouldn’t have happened in the summer of 60.

All total speculation, of course. 

[Get Marwood & I]

I had a go by year for UKPVs only, here Rich (you helped me with the publishers)...

 

A monthly has always been on the to do list. A task for another day....

[Get Marwood & I]

Missed.. 

Missed...

Missed....

Missed.....

Missed......

Missed.......

Missed........

Missed.........

Missed.........

A Hit! A palpable hit!

[Malacoda]

Nearly, nearly...

 

Up a bit, right a bit......bingo 

Edited February 2, 2022 by Malacoda