The Distribution of US Published Comics in the UK (1959~1982) 15 15

[Get Marwood & I]

BOOM!

[OtherEric]

On 2/2/2022 at 11:40 AM, Get Marwood & I said:

BOOM!

What did we do to deserve you mooning us?

[Get Marwood & I]

On 2/2/2022 at 7:42 PM, OtherEric said:

What did we do to deserve you mooning us?

Enjoy the craic! 

[Albert Tatlock]

On 2/2/2022 at 3:41 AM, Malacoda said:

All total speculation, of course.

Still puzzled.

Atlas had been sending over product for 6 months or so, presumably they were happy, as were T & P and/or Miller with the sales generated, so why the interruption?

DCs suffered no similar hiccup, so the perceived problem was presumably not on this side of the pond.

ACG/Charlton/Archie, etc - any similar ND problems, if not, why not?

[Get Marwood & I]

This would have been a nice issue to snag cheap - someone beat me to it 

Fortunately, we can read it here:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1cYiyR4m9_vzrEkciN3u1GnnCd6s3AA4k/view

 

[Get Marwood & I]

Still on fanzines, although we all know that the UKPVs of Amazing Spider-Man stopped in 1973 to make way for Spider-Man Comics Weekly, it's nice to actually see a written confirmation of it - these clips from issues 3 and 7 of the UK fanzine Comic Media News:

 

 

 

Spot on with the cover dates too!

 

[Malacoda]

On 2/3/2022 at 11:17 AM, Get Marwood & I said:

Still on fanzines, although we all know that the UKPVs of Amazing Spider-Man stopped in 1973 to make way for Spider-Man Comics Weekly, it's nice to actually see a written confirmation of it - these clips from issues 3 and 7 of the UK fanzine Comic Media News:

 

 

 

Spot on with the cover dates too!

 

 

Just for the sheer, undiluted Hell of it, I plotted all the comics which 'should' have been ND vs the points in time when the lead character either had their own eponymous UK reprint comic or was on the masthead.  The overlap is more than 97%. 

Even the ones where the overlap is messy have a story.  E.g.  Conan the Barbarian was stopped from cd September, however the UK reprint title Savage Sword of Conan actually ran from 8/03/1975 to 05/07/1975, so the US import ban almost completely failed to overlap the UK run. 

However, you can totally see how this happened. According to the Panelologist (Feb 75) Conan was going to be cancelled in June, presumably to make way for a UK B&W weekly.  Then, the following month, out of a clear blue sky. SSOC appeared. Presumably not by coincidence, this was launched on the same day as Super Heroes, so I believe that SSOC was quickly moved up the schedule to take advantage of advertising, distribution &  marketing synergies and, of course, printing economies of scale may have played a part (Marvel UK were forever changing printers).

2 things then happened - the Conan title fell flat & got cancelled after only 18 weeks - which presumably no one was expecting - and secondly the US CTB was ND at roughly the point where it was predicted in Feb to be ND (depending on whether they were referring to cover dates or release dates).  The return dates tie up neatly.  SSOC died at the beginning of  July, presumably too late to get Conan re-entered into the PV print run for Aug, so printing resumed from September with no 57 (released September 16th, cd Dec). 

Drac is an even better mess. 

Note: the UK B&W reprint uses the title of the US B&W magazine rather than a new title, so ‘Dracula Lives’ does not reprint the monthly B&W magazine, Dracula Lives, it reprints monthly colour Tomb of Dracula. 

Distribution of Tomb Of Dracula ceased in perfect synchronisation with the launch of Dracula Lives from TOD #29 (released 5/11/74). 
Dracula Lives ceases on 16/6/76, but it merges with POTA from #88 where it shared the mastheads and the covers so it remains non D. 
Dracula continues to be reprinted in POTA / DL, but by this point, they’ve got another problem: as UK reprints burn through material at twice the rate of US production,  Dracula Lives is within 3 months of catching up to Tomb of Dracula.   Neil Tennant gets round this by using ‘Dracula presents…’ as a framing device to reprint old Timely spooky stories.  
POTA/DL ends on issue #123 on 23/2/77.  POTA joins the masthead of MWOM.  Dracula disappears from UK reprints at this point and the US imports to World immediately resume from #55.  This is actually release date January 4th, so printed (but not shipped or distributed) before Dracula ended, but as above, Drac was in name only at this point and the decision to cancel the UK title had clearly been made. 

But there’s a bit more! 
Bafflingly, and probably only because there had been a few more US issues of Tomb of Dracula in the ensuing months, they re-introduced Dracula to the masthead and cover of MWOM from issue #247 (22/5/77).  This went on for 3 months, so by the time TOD went Non D again (release date 4/10/77),  Dracula reprints had ceased again.  I suspect the real reason TOD went Non D again may have had as much to do with imminent cancellation.  Gene Colan no longer wanted to do it, publication became erratic (2 months, 3 months, 4 months between issues) and there were only 8 further issues before cancellation.  While it’s nice to pretend it sits somewhere in the logic of protecting the UK reprints, Occam’s Razor suggests it was just a sinking ship and Marvel had higher hopes for Black Panther and Red Sonja, which they had just started exporting to the UK. 

There are a few comics that fall into the cracks like this, but out of 479 issues which 'should' have been ND, I only counted 14 that were colouring outside the lines. 

Edited February 4, 2022 by Malacoda

[Malacoda]

On 2/2/2022 at 11:10 PM, Albert Tatlock said:

Still puzzled.

Atlas had been sending over product for 6 months or so, presumably they were happy, as were T & P and/or Miller with the sales generated, so why the interruption?

DCs suffered no similar hiccup, so the perceived problem was presumably not on this side of the pond.

ACG/Charlton/Archie, etc - any similar ND problems, if not, why not?

All true, but also there's also no actual cessation, it just reduces down to one PV title per month 

May 60 - Gunsmoke/JIM

June 60 - TGK / ST

July 60 - Gunsmoke / KCO / JIM / TOS

Aug 60 -  TGK / ST / RK 

Sep 60 - JIM

Oct 60 - ST

Nov 60 - JIM

and then it picks up again from December, which suggests to me that they were experimenting.  That one lone issue of TOS is crazy, unless they were testing the waters. 

Note: I don't have the romance / Millie titles on my sheet, so somebody more thorough than me might be able to see the full pattern (....if only we knew someone like that.....) 

 

[Get Marwood & I]

On 2/3/2022 at 7:02 PM, Malacoda said:

Note: I don't have the romance / Millie titles on my sheet, so somebody more thorough than me might be able to see the full pattern (....if only we knew someone like that.....) 

Yes, wake up @Kevin.J 

Anyway, what are we talking about here again? I'm a bit lost.

Here are the 20 titles Marvel were producing in 1960, showing which had UKPVs:

Does that help?

[Albert Tatlock]

On 2/3/2022 at 7:02 PM, Malacoda said:

Sep 60 - JIM

Oct 60 - ST

Nov 60 - JIM

At this time, JIM cover dates on arrival in UK were running a month behind, I remember buying the May 1961 issue along with the June TTA, TOS and ST, and the pattern continued at least until early 1962.

So the September and November 1960 slots were in effect devoid of any Atlas mystery/horror titles.

From August 1960 to December the only ones that put in an appearance were ST 77 and JIM 60 (JIM 62 would have arrived with the December batch).

That is 2 out of an expected 9 issues, so something had definitely put a spanner in the works.

[Malacoda]

On 2/3/2022 at 9:49 PM, Albert Tatlock said:

At this time, JIM cover dates on arrival in UK were running a month behind, I remember buying the May 1961 issue along with the June TTA, TOS and ST, and the pattern continued at least until early 1962.

So the September and November 1960 slots were in effect devoid of any Atlas mystery/horror titles.

From August 1960 to December the only ones that put in an appearance were ST 77 and JIM 60 (JIM 62 would have arrived with the December batch).

That is 2 out of an expected 9 issues, so something had definitely put a spanner in the works.

The May 61 JIM arriving with the following month's TTA, TOS & ST makes perfect sense based on the release dates.  JIM 60 (May) has a release date of 28/2, and the other three, which are cover dated June, a week later 7/3, so it's not a surprise they rocked up together. 

According to Steve (and me), the only titles you'd be expecting to see in Sept & Nov would be JIM 60  & 62.  

So, if I'm understanding both you & Steve: 

So the September and November 1960 slots were in effect devoid of any Atlas mystery/horror titles. From August 1960 to December the only ones that put in an appearance were ST 77 and JIM 60

So you're saying that  JIM 60, which should have been Sept, rocked up in October? along with Strange Tales 77  which was actually supposed to be in October.  

And then JIM 62 which should have appeared in November came in December. So nothing arrived in Sept & Nov.  ( And presumably JIM 63 which should have come in Dec came in Jan) 

The other titles weren't pressed as PV's as far as we know, which, given that they pressed PV's of the ones they did intend to export, gives the impression that they never had any intention of exporting them.  So when you say they were 'expected', I'm sure you & other fans were expecting (and hoping and praying for) them, but they were never coming, right?  You were expecting them, but Fred Thorpe wasn't.  The mystery is why they were never intended for export, not why they fell off the boat.  

This bunching up doesn't feel too weird to me.  At this point, DC are being printed in Illinois and Atlas in Connecticut.  If you only had one title to export for Atlas that month, and it was cover dated 2 months hence, would you actually bother to do the whole export thing for a single title?  I can easily imagine IND piling them up until it was worth sending.  

Also, we know that Donenfeld was on a mission to crush Atlas with his distribution deal, so how surprised would you be if, with only one Atlas title on the shipment they said screw it, send it next month. They certainly weren't going to get in trouble with the boss. 

The question of course is still WHY was it only one title?

 

Edited February 4, 2022 by Malacoda

[Malacoda]

On 2/3/2022 at 7:39 PM, Get Marwood & I said:

Yes, wake up @Kevin.J 

Anyway, what are we talking about here again? I'm a bit lost.

Here are the 20 titles Marvel were producing in 1960, showing which had UKPVs:

Does that help?

Yup, that's exactly what we needed. Ta. 

[Redshade]

On 2/3/2022 at 9:49 PM, Albert Tatlock said:

At this time, JIM cover dates on arrival in UK were running a month behind, I remember buying the May 1961 issue along with the June TTA, TOS and ST, and the pattern continued at least until early 1962.

 

Great Caesar's ghost on a bike Albert, I can barely remember if I've had today's bowel movement or not.
The posts here by you and Malacoda and Marwood et al make me realise that I am not worthy to be in such exalted and erudite company.

Edited February 4, 2022 by Redshade
Misspellings of names rectified.

[Get Marwood & I]

On 2/4/2022 at 8:10 PM, Redshade said:

Great Caesar's ghost on a bike Albert, I can barely remember if I've had today's bowel movement or not.
The posts here by you and Malacona and Marley et al make me realise that I am not worthy to be in such exalted and erudite company.

Add me to your list please, I've had a stroke. 

[Redshade]

On 2/4/2022 at 8:11 PM, Get Marwood & I said:

Add me to your list please, I've had a stroke. 

Sorry Steve (Marwood). I don't know why I put Marley. Must've been scared by a ghost or something.

[Get Marwood & I]

On 2/4/2022 at 9:42 PM, Redshade said:

Sorry Steve (Marwood). I don't know why I put Marley. Must've been scared by a ghost or something.

The Ghost of Distribution Past....

[Malacoda]

On 2/4/2022 at 8:11 PM, Get Marwood & I said:

Add me to your list please, I've had a stroke. 

Two old ladies were sitting on a beach....

[Malacoda]

On 2/4/2022 at 8:10 PM, Redshade said:

Great Caesar's ghost on a bike Albert, I can barely remember if I've had today's bowel movement or not.
The posts here by you and Malacoda and Marwood et al make me realise that I am not worthy to be in such exalted and erudite company.

Agree about Albert's memory - although I do find my memory for comics that were ND is ludicrously good, due to the amount of time spent looking for them or drooling over them, affixed to the back walls of comic shops with ludicrous price tags.  Yesterday, I was doing some work on 1979 and though I couldn't remember IF I had eaten, let alone what I might have eaten, that very day I could describe the ND covers from 40+ years ago without blinking. 

 

 

[Albert Tatlock]

Have we seen this stamp before?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/165322403519?hash=item267dfbaebf:g:yIUAAOSwwztg8-4Z

 

 

[Get Marwood & I]

On 2/7/2022 at 9:36 PM, Albert Tatlock said:

Have we seen this stamp before?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/165322403519?hash=item267dfbaebf:g:yIUAAOSwwztg8-4Z

 

 

I've seen a lot of Harveys with that style stamp, but all minus the D.