Silver Age pedigree thread 3 3

[Hepcat]

On 5/15/2024 at 1:14 PM, LordRahl said:

Given that there are exactly 3 copies of both books combined that grade out at 9.6 or above... this is the understatement of the year

9.6's? I'm surprised there are any (especially of the Tomahawk).

 

 

Edited May 15 by Hepcat

[LordRahl]

On 5/15/2024 at 11:31 AM, Hepcat said:

9.6's? I'm surprised there are any (especially of the Tomahawk).

 

 

Amazingly enough the Tomahawk has a 9.6 AND a 9.8 The HoM has only 1 9.6 and no 9.8. I'd love to see that 9.8 Tomahawk

[Hepcat]

On 5/15/2024 at 11:19 AM, LordRahl said:

Is that so? Please find me one of these common as dirt Tomahawk 116's or HoM 175's in 9.6 or 9.8.

My copy of the House of Mystery 175 anyway:

[LordRahl]

On 5/15/2024 at 11:49 AM, Hepcat said:

My copy of the House of Mystery 175 anyway:

[adamstrange]

On 5/15/2024 at 4:51 AM, tth2 said:

Depends on the pedigree, grade/PQ of the book in question and the rarity of the book in that grade/PQ. 

Some SA pedigrees I value much more highly than others, particularly Curator, Pacific Coast and Western Penn.  Other SA pedigrees I attach little to no value to, particularly Savannah and Mohawk. 

Also, if there are a ton of other copies (pedigree and/or non-pedigree) as good or better as the pedigree book, then I would attach very little (or any) premium to the book.  For example, is there really anything premium about a 9.6 Rocky Mountain or Oakland Marvel from the mid- or late-1960s that is one of many 9.6 copies and behind many 9.8 copies in the Census? 

The whole reason a mystique developed around pedigrees in the first place was that they contained pristine copies of books that were otherwise impossible to find in such condition.  So GA pedigrees and then SA pedigrees that contained books from the 1950s and early 1960s that were impossible to find in grade.  But pristine books from 1968 are as common as dirt, so there's nothing particularly special about a pedigree book from that period being pristine.

The further you go into the 12 cent era, the less meaning there is to a pedigree designation.

 

[Straw-Man]

the sole known example of an arrival date on a shoe.

[Straw-Man]

another silver salida.

[namisgr]

On occasion, though, there are issues of late SA and BA comics in which the nicest copy(ies) known are from pedigrees.  This is especially true for less common western, war, and humor titles, but sometimes holds for Superhero books, too.

One of one (left) and one of two (right):

    

 

SA Marvel rare in high grade - one of one:

Edited May 16 by namisgr

[namisgr]

Some of the early SA Savannah comics are nice examples of issues hard to find in good shape.

[Hepcat]

On 5/16/2024 at 3:14 AM, adamstrange said:

The further you go into the 12 cent era, the less meaning there is to a pedigree designation.

Truth!

On 5/16/2024 at 3:14 AM, adamstrange said:

But is there something else to be said about that Our Fighting Forces 32?

Edited May 16 by Hepcat

[tth2]

On 5/15/2024 at 11:19 PM, LordRahl said:

Is that so? Please find me one of these common as dirt Tomahawk 116's or HoM 175's in 9.6 or 9.8 And I won't be expecting to pay an arm and a leg for them because they are so common. 

I knew people would start mentioning the exceptions!

Sure, there are always exceptions to my "common as dirt" theory.  Off the top of my head, I would also add B&B #60 and Strange Adventures #180.  Of course, these are all DCs.  Not sure if there are any post-1965 Marvel equivalents.  

[tth2]

On 5/16/2024 at 1:00 AM, Hepcat said:

All my early Northland Flash comics are graded NM-:

Nice!  I don't think I've ever seen the Northland Flashes before! 

[tth2]

On 5/16/2024 at 1:14 AM, LordRahl said:

On 5/16/2024 at 12:55 AM, Hepcat said:

But tth2 specified Marvels and neither of those two comics are Marvels meaning they're not nearly as common as Marvels from the same time period.

Given that there are exactly 3 copies of both books combined that grade out at 9.6 or above... this is the understatement of the year

Pacific Coast is usually my go to pedigree for mid- to late-SA DCs that don't otherwise seem to exist in 9.6 or above.

[tth2]

On 5/16/2024 at 2:49 AM, Hepcat said:

My copy of the House of Mystery 175 anyway:

Is it a pedigree? 

[Hepcat]

No, it's not a pedigree to my knowledge. I may have bought it from Harley Yee 20-25 years ago but I really don't remember.

[Hepcat]

On 5/16/2024 at 1:01 PM, tth2 said:

I knew people would start mentioning the exceptions!

Sure, there are always exceptions to my "common as dirt" theory.  Off the top of my head, I would also add B&B #60 and Strange Adventures #180.

My copies:

Neither is a pedigree to my knowledge.

[adamstrange]

On 5/16/2024 at 8:48 AM, namisgr said:

On occasion, though, there are issues of late SA and BA comics in which the nicest copy(ies) known are from pedigrees.  This is especially true for less common western, war, and humor titles, but sometimes holds for Superhero books, too.

A long-winded reply:

The pedigree designation came about because of the Church collection.  The Church copies were sold at multiples of Guide, with the justification that not only were they high grade, but that their state of preservation, in all aspects, was so far superior to the typical copies that survived.  A few other collections were found that were also noticeably superior in preservation.  However, over time, that pedigree standard was loosened and some interesting and high grade collections were given the pedigree designation without being superior.

When it comes to late SA and BA, it is hard to see that any pedigree is anywhere near as superior to the standard in the same way is true of Church and a few other of the premier pedigrees. 

For example, back in the 90s, A-1 Comics purchased an original owner late SA and BA collection that included every DC.  The gloss and pages for those was superb and yielded loads of highest graded copies.  When I slabbed 100 page giants they received a handful of 9.8s and more than 30 9.6s.  None of the pedigrees from this time period appear to me to better than what I've seen on those copies.  I believe there are many other collections out of there similar quality to pedigrees.

So, while there may be some "best of" copies from late SA/BA pedigrees, I personally don't think the ped designation, by itself, matters because I don't think they are that special.  YMMV.

 

[Hepcat]

On 5/16/2024 at 2:24 PM, adamstrange said:

For example, back in the 90s, A-1 Comics purchased an original owner late SA and BA collection that included every DC.  The gloss and pages for those was superb and yielded loads of highest graded copies.  When I slabbed 100 page giants they received a handful of 9.8s and more than 30 9.6s.

But whyever then did you encase those beauties in plastic coffins?

On 5/16/2024 at 2:24 PM, adamstrange said:

So, while there may be some "best of" copies from late SA/BA pedigrees, I personally don't think the ped designation, by itself, matters because I don't think they are that special.  YMMV.

I've bought pedigreed copies not because I thought the designation gave them special status but simply because they were nice enough to fit into my collection . That being said I seem to have acquired dozens of pedigreed comics over the years.

[Frisco Larson]

As described above, the pedigree term DID first widely become used in reference to the Edgar Church collection. It's uniformly (but not completely) high-grade state of preservation had collectors seeking out comics from that specific collection. An aspect of that pedigree not touched on in the above post is that the comics were purchased by the same person and ALMOST exclusively purchased new (Edgar DID fill in some second-hand back issues where he could). He seems to have frequented the same newsstands, as many of the early to mid 40s comics display an identical handwritten date code that has become an easy indicator in identifying a Church copy. This is an aspect of pedigree comics that add to their allure. Often times these pedigrees have identifying marks, codes, store stamps, etc... that make them interesting beyond their high-grade state of preservation. Seeing a stack of Bethlehem comics with that very distinctive E. J. KERY Kodak - Film - Magazine Shop stamp on the back cover is just plain COOL to most collectors that I know. SO, it's often not just being high-grade, but the fact that the comics were purchased by the same person or persons and any unifying markings tying them together as a collection that propel many of us to seek them out. As in every aspect of life, people should choose their own path. If you like pedigrees, buy them. If you like high-grade but couldn't give a rip about who bought 'em and where, that's cool too. 

[adamstrange]

On 5/16/2024 at 4:21 PM, Hepcat said:

But whyever then did you encase those beauties in plastic coffins?

  They were released back into the wild for others to enjoy.