How much of a premium are we paying for newsstand editions? 3 3

[Mr. Spider-Woman]

On 10/25/2023 at 7:35 PM, paqart said:

These samples are of single graded comics, but that doesn't mean these aren't being tracked. I am tracking them, though not assiduously, and can say there have been multiple sales like this, with the trend showing steadily increasing prices for newsstands that exceeds the price increase for their direct counterparts.

As for whether people "notice," I've noticed, as have others in this forum. At present, low prices for uninteresting newsstands tend to be around $10, where the direct is $1.00 or so. The range for most post 2000 newsstands is around $10-$30, but reach very high values for special interest issues. There are still bargains to be found, but it takes longer to find them than it did a couple years ago, and the prices are usually higher.

As for non-bargains, the highest premium I've paid is about 1000% for a CGC 9.6 ASM price variant from 2000.

Is it newsstand issues overall or just certain newsstand comics that are increasing in price? I think that's what I'm most curious about. Is the market for newsstand issues expanding as more people start collecting them? Or is it a few select issues graded 9.8 that are seeing price increases?

On 10/26/2023 at 12:51 AM, Lazyboy said:

But you only acquire an issue or two per year because they're so impossible to find that they practically don't exist, right?

I honestly don't look very hard. If I'm in a comic shop, I browse the Fantastic Four box(es) and look for newsstand issues I need.

[GeeksAreMyPeeps]

On 10/25/2023 at 7:46 PM, paqart said:

THis is a bit like saying that there are people who don't see the value difference between FF #1 (1961) and any of the later reissue #1's from the series. That doesn't make the original #1 less valuable. It just creates bargains in the hands of people who don't "believe in" the value of the originals.

Not really. There are always going to be people who aren't collectors that don't think a pricetag is justified. That's not what we're talking about here (at least, not the *only* thing). In the case of Newsstands, we're still dealing with a lot of uncertainty, as for the bulk of the history of collecting, Newsstands and Directs were lumped together when studying the market, so it's not entirely clear exactly where the numbers fall in terms of surviving copies, and copies in high grade. It's starting to get more clear as people study it, but there's still a lot of uncertainly, so results vary quite a bit.

[mrwoogieman]

As someone who buys more modern newsies than most, i have no problem admitting that there are people who are trying to generate interest in what would otherwise be worthless books by simply focusing on the fact that they are newsstand editions. 
 

If it were solely grass roots collectors driving the modern newsie market because of rarity or collectibility of the books, there would have to be a corresponding burgeoning market for early direct editions from the 70s for the same reasons. And yet, no one talks about premiums for directs from that era.

And I think the reason for that is that the hype-sters don’t have access to those direct editions at friendly price points like they do for moderns. The classic hype what you have to sell. 
 

 

 

 

[Lazyboy]

On 10/26/2023 at 5:47 PM, mrwoogieman said:

As someone who buys more modern newsies than most, i have no problem admitting that there are people who are trying to generate interest in what would otherwise be worthless books by simply focusing on the fact that they are newsstand editions. 
 

If it were solely grass roots collectors driving the modern newsie market because of rarity or collectibility of the books, there would have to be a corresponding burgeoning market for early direct editions from the 70s for the same reasons. And yet, no one talks about premiums for directs from that era.

And I think the reason for that is that the hype-sters don’t have access to those direct editions at friendly price points like they do for moderns. The classic hype what you have to sell. 
 

Do you remember the first glimmers of Newsstand hype? A handful of issues, like Spawn 1, with notable sales on feeBay. 

Years later, a few people started hyping Newsstands in general and, over time, their ludicrous, false hype numbers insidiously spread everywhere. Of course, those few people absolutely did not and do not have hoards of Newsstands they bought for cheap and would never even consider selling any of their priceless treasures.

[paqart]

On 10/26/2023 at 12:53 AM, Lazyboy said:

What?

It's what I'm seeing. For instance, try almost any New 52 issue, avoiding all keys, and they're still $10 and up for almost anything. You may find it humorous, or things are different where you are, but a couple years ago, I could regularly obtain newsstands for around $2-$5/copy that now cost $10-$30. Also, newsstands are more likely to be labeled as newsstands, and $100+ prices for what are otherwise $10-$30 comics are increasingly common.

[paqart]

On 10/26/2023 at 9:45 AM, Mr. Spider-Woman said:

Is it newsstand issues overall or just certain newsstand comics that are increasing in price? I think that's what I'm most curious about. Is the market for newsstand issues expanding as more people start collecting them? Or is it a few select issues graded 9.8 that are seeing price increases?

I honestly don't look very hard. If I'm in a comic shop, I browse the Fantastic Four box(es) and look for newsstand issues I need.

I think it's overall because the low interest items post 2000 seem to have a basement price of around $10 in good condition.

[paqart]

On 10/26/2023 at 10:17 AM, GeeksAreMyPeeps said:

Not really. There are always going to be people who aren't collectors that don't think a pricetag is justified. That's not what we're talking about here (at least, not the *only* thing). In the case of Newsstands, we're still dealing with a lot of uncertainty, as for the bulk of the history of collecting, Newsstands and Directs were lumped together when studying the market, so it's not entirely clear exactly where the numbers fall in terms of surviving copies, and copies in high grade. It's starting to get more clear as people study it, but there's still a lot of uncertainly, so results vary quite a bit.

Point taken regarding non-collectors vs collectors. If you want to look at only collectors, then I'd compare this to the group of collectors and stores who advised Overstreet to print that the Star Wars 35 cent variant isn't worth much more than the 30 cent price issue. Meanwhile, some dealers recognized that rarity of the comic and ignored Overstreet. Today, you can see the result for all of the 35 cent price variants, several of which are keys. Overall, it increases value even for non-keys, but values skyrocket for keys.

[GeeksAreMyPeeps]

On 10/27/2023 at 5:02 PM, paqart said:

Point taken regarding non-collectors vs collectors. If you want to look at only collectors, then I'd compare this to the group of collectors and stores who advised Overstreet to print that the Star Wars 35 cent variant isn't worth much more than the 30 cent price issue. Meanwhile, some dealers recognized that rarity of the comic and ignored Overstreet. Today, you can see the result for all of the 35 cent price variants, several of which are keys. Overall, it increases value even for non-keys, but values skyrocket for keys.

I think what's comparable there is that, until the market is studied for some time, there is uncertainty on availability, so people are going to value them differently based on their opinions of what the availability is (and, of course, whether the difference in the books matters). What's not comparable is that the price variants were available in a limited location, so they would not have been available to many people that would have wanted them when they came out.

The latter element in determining value (whether the difference in the books matters) is always going to be a factor. Many people won't think it makes a difference. For those that do, I think in time the values will settle into a tighter range. Right now, I still see too many sales listings for Newsstands from the '80s–early '90s that are prices way higher than their availability justifies for (and not even in high grade; sellers are asking silly prices for Newsstands in the F-VF range, which is going to be a typical condition for those books).

[Juno Beach]

On 10/26/2023 at 3:47 PM, mrwoogieman said:

As someone who buys more modern newsies than most, i have no problem admitting that there are people who are trying to generate interest in what would otherwise be worthless books by simply focusing on the fact that they are newsstand editions. 
 

If it were solely grass roots collectors driving the modern newsie market because of rarity or collectibility of the books, there would have to be a corresponding burgeoning market for early direct editions from the 70s for the same reasons. And yet, no one talks about premiums for directs from that era.

And I think the reason for that is that the hype-sters don’t have access to those direct editions at friendly price points like they do for moderns. The classic hype what you have to sell. 
 

 

 

 

Yup. I've always found it strange that there is zero talk about those early direct market comics. In theory they should be just as rare as late era newsstands, no?

[paqart]

On 10/28/2023 at 10:11 AM, GeeksAreMyPeeps said:

I think what's comparable there is that, until the market is studied for some time, there is uncertainty on availability, so people are going to value them differently based on their opinions of what the availability is (and, of course, whether the difference in the books matters). What's not comparable is that the price variants were available in a limited location, so they would not have been available to many people that would have wanted them when they came out.

The latter element in determining value (whether the difference in the books matters) is always going to be a factor. Many people won't think it makes a difference. For those that do, I think in time the values will settle into a tighter range. Right now, I still see too many sales listings for Newsstands from the '80s–early '90s that are prices way higher than their availability justifies for (and not even in high grade; sellers are asking silly prices for Newsstands in the F-VF range, which is going to be a typical condition for those books).

I agree with you on the pricing for 80's-90's newsstands, but that doesn't change what the pricing is. My guess is that it is an overflow effect resulting from scarcity of post 2000 newsstands combied with scarcity of keys post 2000. It takes time for a comic to become a key, and for what are sometimes unpredictable reasons. Speaking for myself, I made a conscious decision to only buy newsstand editions, unless the issue doesn't have a newsstand. If anyone else has changed their buying behavior in the same way, it would tend to drive prices up.

[paqart]

On 10/28/2023 at 12:52 PM, Juno Beach said:

Yup. I've always found it strange that there is zero talk about those early direct market comics. In theory they should be just as rare as late era newsstands, no?

Based on print runs, they should be, but aren't. It doesn't matter what era we choose to compare, newsstand editions tend to be harder to find than direct counterparts. There are a few exceptions, but those are limited to specific issues, not titles, years, or eras. For instance, ASM 300 is slightly more common as newsstand, but issues on either side of it are less common as newsstand.

[darkstar]

On 10/26/2023 at 5:47 PM, mrwoogieman said:

As someone who buys more modern newsies than most, i have no problem admitting that there are people who are trying to generate interest in what would otherwise be worthless books by simply focusing on the fact that they are newsstand editions. 
 

If it were solely grass roots collectors driving the modern newsie market because of rarity or collectibility of the books, there would have to be a corresponding burgeoning market for early direct editions from the 70s for the same reasons. And yet, no one talks about premiums for directs from that era.

And I think the reason for that is that the hype-sters don’t have access to those direct editions at friendly price points like they do for moderns. The classic hype what you have to sell. 
 

 

 

 

There is no corresponding market for the first available direct editions because even if someone has done the legwork to figure that out those books aren't known to any significant segment of the market to the point where market prices would be noticeably affected by the market depth. The final modern newsstand issues and production years are known. The only reason later modern newsstand collecting isn't bigger right now is due to the proliferation of atrocious cover art and largely insignificant and forgettable stories. You're left with a whole lot of low print run books, but little reason to collect them. Still there are exceptions though like Deadpool Kills Deadpool 4, Venom 42, etc.  

[Lazyboy]

On 10/28/2023 at 4:02 PM, darkstar said:

There is no corresponding market for the first available direct editions because even if someone has done the legwork to figure that out those books aren't known to any significant segment of the market to the point where market prices would be noticeably affected by the market depth.

On 10/28/2023 at 4:02 PM, darkstar said:

The only reason later modern newsstand collecting isn't bigger right now is due to the proliferation of atrocious cover art and largely insignificant and forgettable stories.