Is CGC Going to Universal Labels for Restored Books?

[Flaming_Telepath]

Yeah, it was presumtuous, and along with the comment about the $2 books being sent back (and the fact that I went to bed at 5.15 and I'm at the desk again at 9.00), I got pretty pissed at you.

 

I don't have any restored books in my permanent collection, but then again, this only numbers about 100 items and they're mainly pedigrees (which stops me chasing everything that comes along). However, in my fluid stock, I have maybe 40-50 books?

 

My problems are these...

 

(1) Whilst I don't think blue labelling restored books is going to open the floodgates to increased scamming, it will make it easier. And that is not good from a consumer point of view.

(2) We can argue revenue figures all day long, but the bottom line is that there will be an increase.

(3) I think before any other changes are made to what CGC deliver, and how they deliver it, they need to take care of basics. Some high profile books have been slipping through the net as unrestored when the opposite is in fact true. Whilst I don't need perfection (it won't happen, I know), they need to take immediate positive action to at least get better at this. One suggestion is a visual database and somebody viewing this to cross-match submissions. Great idea, but when is it going to be launched? And what other ideas are there kicking around that could help enhance the service they provide?

 

And I'm pissed at CGC because I truly believe that we need a professional, impartial, transparent, third-party grading service for this hobby to continue to thrive. At the moment, I don't think we've got it.

[LordRahl]

Some high profile books have been slipping through the net as unrestored when the opposite is in fact true.

 

I was under the impression that it was one high profile book. I know the FF 10 was pulled from Pedigree but did CGC ever get that book back? Was there evidence of it being trimmed or was it just pressed to obtain the higher grade?

[Flaming_Telepath]

Some high profile books have been slipping through the net as unrestored when the opposite is in fact true.

 

I was under the impression that it was one high profile book. I know the FF 10 was pulled from Pedigree but did CGC ever get that book back? Was there evidence of it being trimmed or was it just pressed to obtain the higher grade?

 

I understood that it had been restored, too.

[FFB]

Yeah, it was presumtuous, and along with the comment about the $2 books being sent back (and the fact that I went to bed at 5.15 and I'm at the desk again at 9.00), I got pretty pissed at you.

 

I don't have any restored books in my permanent collection, but then again, this only numbers about 100 items and they're mainly pedigrees (which stops me chasing everything that comes along). However, in my fluid stock, I have maybe 40-50 books?

 

My problems are these...

 

(1) Whilst I don't think blue labelling restored books is going to open the floodgates to increased scamming, it will make it easier. And that is not good from a consumer point of view.

(2) We can argue revenue figures all day long, but the bottom line is that there will be an increase.

(3) I think before any other changes are made to what CGC deliver, and how they deliver it, they need to take care of basics. Some high profile books have been slipping through the net as unrestored when the opposite is in fact true. Whilst I don't need perfection (it won't happen, I know), they need to take immediate positive action to at least get better at this. One suggestion is a visual database and somebody viewing this to cross-match submissions. Great idea, but when is it going to be launched? And what other ideas are there kicking around that could help enhance the service they provide?

 

And I'm pissed at CGC because I truly believe that we need a professional, impartial, transparent, third-party grading service for this hobby to continue to thrive. At the moment, I don't think we've got it.

 

I think the increased possibility of scamming depends on how they execute on the concept. Anyone can photoshop a purple label to blue. Even me, and you can ask Brad how pathetic my photoshop skills are.

BEFORE:

 

AFTER:

 

 

SMALLER:

 

 

It would be pretty easy to cut and paste numbers from another label and post that picture in an auction. I should also note that this took me, a Photoshop neanderthal who is famous for the lamest Photoshop job ever posted on these forums, about five minutes to accomplish.

 

But if you're going to run such an obvious scam, isn't it easier to just not mail the book in the first place and then disappear with the buyer's cash?

[FFB]

Some high profile books have been slipping through the net as unrestored when the opposite is in fact true.

 

I was under the impression that it was one high profile book. I know the FF 10 was pulled from Pedigree but did CGC ever get that book back? Was there evidence of it being trimmed or was it just pressed to obtain the higher grade?

 

Trimmed bottom edge, same as the #3.

[sterlingcomics]

You think someone with a bronze age or low-dollar silver age book with amateur color touch is going to spend the money to get the book regraded under the new system?

 

A restored book is a restored book is a restored book...

 

I applaud the decision to move away from the purple label and toward a more detailed method of disclosing information. More information is better. Just because you personally have no interest in restored books doesn't mean that CGC has to change its policies in the order that you dictate.

 

I think more information is better, and would applaud more restoration information on the label. I still think moving away from the PLOD would be a PR nightmare, confuse and frustrate/irritate customers, and not provide any real value. You are giving more information on the restoration, but taking away the obvious visual indicator that it is restored. This is exactly in the same vein as the idea when they decided to remove the alphanumeric grade when the label design changed. Bad idea IMHO.

 

Less <> More

[sterlingcomics]

Honestly, if the resto is clearly marked on the label and there is a separate resto grade so that even from small scans you'll be able to tell that the book has some work on it, why does the color of the label matter?

 

exactly. So why make changes that will potentially disrupt and confuse both CGC customers and buyers?

[VintageComics]

Honestly, if the resto is clearly marked on the label and there is a separate resto grade so that even from small scans you'll be able to tell that the book has some work on it, why does the color of the label matter?

 

exactly. So why make changes that will potentially disrupt and confuse both CGC customers and buyers?

 

Because there is a large group that would prefer the purple label...I for one believe a restored book should be worth more than it is today, esp. with a very small amount of pro resto...not 20 or 25% of the unrestored MV like it is today!! but like every one else am not wealthy enough to take that leap into amassing a large collection of restored books in the hope that prices will eventually go up....I believe changing the label will have a great pscycological impact on buyer's habits. Many people have agreed to this.

[VintageComics]

Change is also inevitable and if it is for the good of the hobby, then better sooner than later....AS far as scamming goes, IT WILL ALWAYS HAPPEN.

[joe_collector]

I wouldn't be surprised if the idea to get rid of PLOD's originated here, and if I remember correctly was very well accepted.

 

This is pretty bizarre logic, as the question as posed, is not the issue. Those who do NOT want to buy PLODs would not even bat an eyelash, but ask the right question (see above) and you'll get a different response.

 

I think if CGC is using that forum discussion to dictate policy, they need to examine the collectors who DO NOT want Universal labels given to PLODs.

 

As you hopefully realize, that is a totally different question.

[joe_collector]

Anyone can photoshop a purple label to blue.

 

Do you people have learning disabilities or do you just like trotting out the same old straw man?

 

If someone willfully misrepresents a Restored PLOD as a Universal Blue Label, they are commiting fraud.

 

If someone with "new and scammer improved" BLODs posts a small scan of a Univeral Restored book, and sells it to a uninformed buyer, they can feign innocence due to posting the EXACT label, with no fraud.

 

Let me guess, next you'll blame the buyer for being "uninformed".

[joe_collector]

I still think moving away from the PLOD would be a PR nightmare, confuse and frustrate/irritate customers, and not provide any real value.

 

That's what is so confusing about this. We all (hopefully) realize this is a dealer/seller generated initiative, and I have to laugh when *collectors" say they have totally altruistic notives.

 

Yeah sure, then just crack them all out then and stop complaining.

 

What I would like to hear is how changing the color from Purple to Blue makes sense. No new labels, no added info, resto numerical/alpha grades, etc. JUST the color.

 

Purple vs. Blue.

 

Right now we have an easy way to differentiate PLODs from Non-resto books, so why (other than $$$) change and irritate thousands of customers?

[awe4one]

What I would like to hear is how changing the color from Purple to Blue makes sense. No new labels, no added info, resto numerical/alpha grades, etc. JUST the color.

 

I've heard some collectors say the colors clash when stacked in a box. Purple slab, purple slab, purple slab, blue slab, purple slab...

 

Who knew collectors were such an anal bunch...

 

Jim

[FFB]

You think someone with a bronze age or low-dollar silver age book with amateur color touch is going to spend the money to get the book regraded under the new system?

 

A restored book is a restored book is a restored book...

 

What is that supposed to mean? That someone with a relatively low dollar book is going to spend MORE money getting it recertified? Give me a break.

 

 

I applaud the decision to move away from the purple label and toward a more detailed method of disclosing information. More information is better. Just because you personally have no interest in restored books doesn't mean that CGC has to change its policies in the order that you dictate.

 

I think more information is better, and would applaud more restoration information on the label. I still think moving away from the PLOD would be a PR nightmare, confuse and frustrate/irritate customers, and not provide any real value. You are giving more information on the restoration, but taking away the obvious visual indicator that it is restored. This is exactly in the same vein as the idea when they decided to remove the alphanumeric grade when the label design changed. Bad idea IMHO.

 

Less <> More

 

It may frustrate/irritate a few, but so what? The PLOD frustrates and irritates quite a few now. Just because the label is the same color doesn't mean CGC can't make a restored blue label that is easily visually distinguishable from an unrestored label.

[FFB]

Honestly, if the resto is clearly marked on the label and there is a separate resto grade so that even from small scans you'll be able to tell that the book has some work on it, why does the color of the label matter?

 

exactly. So why make changes that will potentially disrupt and confuse both CGC customers and buyers?

 

Because there is a large group that would prefer the purple label...I for one believe a restored book should be worth more than it is today, esp. with a very small amount of pro resto...not 20 or 25% of the unrestored MV like it is today!! but like every one else am not wealthy enough to take that leap into amassing a large collection of restored books in the hope that prices will eventually go up....I believe changing the label will have a great pscycological impact on buyer's habits. Many people have agreed to this.

 

Who cares if they go up in value or not? People aren't out there stockpiling restored books in the hope that restored books will become the next great investment niche.

 

Comic collectors are a very anal group of people. Some people will spend a ton of extra money on mylite2s or even Archives for their modern books as well as their more expensive books just so that their collection has a uniform look to it. It is this same mentality that causes people who might otherwise consider a slightly restored book from buying it simply because it doesn't fit in with their blue labels.

[FFB]

Anyone can photoshop a purple label to blue.

 

Do you people have learning disabilities or do you just like trotting out the same old straw man?

 

If someone willfully misrepresents a Restored PLOD as a Universal Blue Label, they are commiting fraud.

 

If someone with "new and scammer improved" BLODs posts a small scan of a Univeral Restored book, and sells it to a uninformed buyer, they can feign innocence due to posting the EXACT label, with no fraud.

 

Let me guess, next you'll blame the buyer for being "uninformed".

 

Vince,

 

As the only lawyer involved in this discussion, let me put your mind at ease -- if someone were to sell a book in a blue label in such a manner as to hide the fact that it was a restored book, that person is just as guilty of fraud as the seller of the PLOD as an unrestored book.

[FFB]

I still think moving away from the PLOD would be a PR nightmare, confuse and frustrate/irritate customers, and not provide any real value.

 

That's what is so confusing about this. We all (hopefully) realize this is a dealer/seller generated initiative, and I have to laugh when *collectors" say they have totally altruistic notives.

 

Yeah sure, then just crack them all out then and stop complaining.

 

What I would like to hear is how changing the color from Purple to Blue makes sense. No new labels, no added info, resto numerical/alpha grades, etc. JUST the color.

 

Purple vs. Blue.

 

Right now we have an easy way to differentiate PLODs from Non-resto books, so why (other than $$$) change and irritate thousands of customers?

 

I think that perhaps you are the one with the learning disability (coupled with a personality disorder, but I find it oddly amusing so I don't usually complain about it). Why don't you re-read the posts in this thread instead of ignoring them and asking the same stupid questions over and over again. There is a very good reason for going to a more detailed restoration scale, just like there is a very good reason for going to a consistent label color. You may not agree with those reasons, but you are so typically anti-everything that I think it is safe to use you as a contrarian indicator at this point.

[FFB]

What I would like to hear is how changing the color from Purple to Blue makes sense. No new labels, no added info, resto numerical/alpha grades, etc. JUST the color.

 

I've heard some collectors say the colors clash when stacked in a box. Purple slab, purple slab, purple slab, blue slab, purple slab...

 

Who knew collectors were such an anal bunch...

 

Jim

 

That was a good one.

[joe_collector]

I think that perhaps you are the one with the learning disability (coupled with a personality disorder,

 

Hey, instead of insulting me, why not just ANSWER THE QUESTION.

 

Why is PURPLE bad and BLUE good?

 

A new resto grading scale would be ANY COLOR, and all these label changes could be colored purple just as easy, so why blue and not purple? Give me one reason (other than aesthetics or resale value) why this color change is required.

 

Why are you so "Pro-Resto Book in Universal Label"? Why does it matter to you so much, that you would risk totally upsetting the status quo just to change the color of the label?

[divad]

Sorry, Nick, that was presumptuous of me. I should have asked first.

 

The closest you'll EVER see . . .